IMJerusha
New member
I believe so. Like when you think of all the things you wanted to say to someone after they have died. It's tormenting. But in Yeshua we have hope!
toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
I believe so. Like when you think of all the things you wanted to say to someone after they have died. It's tormenting. But in Yeshua we have hope!
IMJerusha
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Who's Lucy?
Doormat
New member
Where?
One passage was posted. Matthew 25:46. It doesn't mean what you are claiming.
Lucifer? How does that follow? Explain yourself.
IMJerusha
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Oh THAT Lucy! Oh yeah, she's a pistol!
Shut up, elohiym, you disruptive little troll.
Doormat
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This is figurative:
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In contrast, what Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:1-12 and Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 is literal.
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In contrast, what Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:1-12 and Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 is literal.
IMJerusha
New member
Ah!....HaSatan, the fallen one.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Eternal torment... the Lake of Fire will not just torment Satan and all of his angels, but men as well.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
There will be no rest, day or night and that means for ever and ever, since the smoke ascends forever, the torment is still taking place.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
There will be no rest, day or night and that means for ever and ever, since the smoke ascends forever, the torment is still taking place.
IMJerusha
New member
Whoa! Doormat's not a troll. He just has a different viewpoint.
Doormat
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You want to ask people questions about what they believe, but not be asked questions about what you believe? Okay.
:e4e:
IMJerusha
New member
Can we count on this being figurative? Perhaps it isn't.
These verses could be complimentary.
Either way, things don't look to add up well unless we are in Yeshua and He is in us.
Leave it to you not to quote the passages.
You don't know him like I do. I've been dealing with him near a decade now.
I had already answered the question by the time I saw your post, and my comment was directed at the rest of your post.
doloresistere
New member
And he is a troll because you disagree with him?
toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe and why? |
I believe in Eternal Torment. That eternal separation from God forever, to suffer in torment for being unrepentent, sin loving, Christ hating and making a mockery of "The Great I AM," and for rejecting Jesus as Savior. Anyway that eternal separation as in...
The Rest...
Annihilationism. At the end, remembered no more. It makes think about Noah and flood...
Universalism. A theological doctrine that all human beings will eventually be saved, I don't think so, if that were to be the case then Jesus died in vain and our hope and redemption along with our faith is in vain.
Luke 16:19-26 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate...desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table...So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'"
The Rest...
Annihilationism. At the end, remembered no more. It makes think about Noah and flood...
Genesis 6:5-8. Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
While the body maybe ground to powered and scattered to the four winds and is gone, I believe the soul is eternal and dies not, God created man to be a living soul and breathed the breath of life into him, God's breath was breathed into to Adam and he became a living soul.
While the body maybe ground to powered and scattered to the four winds and is gone, I believe the soul is eternal and dies not, God created man to be a living soul and breathed the breath of life into him, God's breath was breathed into to Adam and he became a living soul.
Universalism. A theological doctrine that all human beings will eventually be saved, I don't think so, if that were to be the case then Jesus died in vain and our hope and redemption along with our faith is in vain.
dreadknought
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Spirit_sword
New member
Personal position: eternal torment.
I'd like to believe in annihilationism. Even more so, I'd like to believe in universalism. I don't find the support for either in scripture that I do for eternal torment.
As to the rest of the thread: There is debate regarding the "payment" aspect of Jesus' death. If you believe that Jesus died for the sins of everyone, and that the only sin left is not receiving Jesus' gift, then it makes sense that the "torment" aspect would be a self-inflicted sort of torment. The use of the word torment also sounds like self inflicted to me: if it was other inflicted, wouldn't it be better described as torture? Torment isn't a word we use to describe society's treatment of prisoners, but it is a word we would use to describe the prisoners' treatment of themselves, remorse and guilt and all that.
I find that the annihilationistic passages fit quite easily into the eternal torment view when they are understood as a physical description, whereas the eternal torment stuff is more about the spiritual. At the end of the age, the earth is destroyed by fire, the lost die in the destruction of the earth but the redeemed are whisked away (whatever view of rapture you take, we should all agree that we are not here for the final death of the earth). Then, the soul's of the wicked are cast into eternal torment. I find that this is the easiest way to understand them both together.
I'd like to believe in annihilationism. Even more so, I'd like to believe in universalism. I don't find the support for either in scripture that I do for eternal torment.
As to the rest of the thread: There is debate regarding the "payment" aspect of Jesus' death. If you believe that Jesus died for the sins of everyone, and that the only sin left is not receiving Jesus' gift, then it makes sense that the "torment" aspect would be a self-inflicted sort of torment. The use of the word torment also sounds like self inflicted to me: if it was other inflicted, wouldn't it be better described as torture? Torment isn't a word we use to describe society's treatment of prisoners, but it is a word we would use to describe the prisoners' treatment of themselves, remorse and guilt and all that.
I find that the annihilationistic passages fit quite easily into the eternal torment view when they are understood as a physical description, whereas the eternal torment stuff is more about the spiritual. At the end of the age, the earth is destroyed by fire, the lost die in the destruction of the earth but the redeemed are whisked away (whatever view of rapture you take, we should all agree that we are not here for the final death of the earth). Then, the soul's of the wicked are cast into eternal torment. I find that this is the easiest way to understand them both together.