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  • #61
    Originally posted by Tambora View Post
    None of your works save you.

    Only the obedience and righteousness of one saves you.
    Try going back and reading what I posted. You obviously ignored the post. Good works (alone) do not save a person. Only good works with the true faith, and proceeding from the grace of God. That same obedient and righteous One says that salvation comes through obeying the commandments...

    And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? [17] Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.(Matt 19:16-17)

    If He is obedient and righteous then why do you not listen to Him?

    Originally posted by Tambora View Post
    Romans 5:18-19 KJV
    (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    I never said I could be righteous without Him. I said grace, faith and good works were all needed for salvation. Did you hear that Tambora. I included grace and placed it first. It is possible, however, to be unrighteous by disobeying Him and not doing good works. This is exactly what you are doing, by saying that there is no need to keep the commandments and do good works for salvation.

    Originally posted by Tambora View Post
    HINT: That one ain't you.
    So stop trying to change scripture by saying it is by the righteousness and obedience of two, instead of just one.
    The only one who needs a "hint" hear is you Tambora. In fact you need a wake up call. You are deliberately ignoring all the verses that say good works are needed to advance your heresy. You also ignore the direct words of Jesus who says salvation comes through keeping the commandments. So who is changing Scripture. BY ALL MEANS IT IS YOU. To you and those like you Jesus says...

    And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Fisherofmen View Post
      Try going back and reading what I posted. You obviously ignored the post. Good works (alone) do not save a person. Only good works with the true faith, and proceeding from the grace of God. That same obedient and righteous One says that salvation comes through obeying the commandments...

      And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? [17] Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.(Matt 19:16-17)

      If He is obedient and righteous then why do you not listen to Him?



      I never said I could be righteous without Him. I said grace, faith and good works were all needed for salvation. Did you hear that Tambora. I included grace and placed it first. It is possible, however, to be unrighteous by disobeying Him and not doing good works. This is exactly what you are doing, by saying that there is no need to keep the commandments and do good works for salvation.



      The only one who needs a "hint" hear is you Tambora. In fact you need a wake up call. You are deliberately ignoring all the verses that say good works are needed to advance your heresy. You also ignore the direct words of Jesus who says salvation comes through keeping the commandments. So who is changing Scripture. BY ALL MEANS IT IS YOU. To you and those like you Jesus says...

      And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)
      Still trying to make it say two instead one.
      Shame shame.


      Romans 5:18-19 KJV
      (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.





      We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
      They already know monsters exist.
      We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

      Comment


      • #63
        Here's some more for ya.
        Pay close attention.

        Romans 4 KJV
        (4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
        (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
        (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
        (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
        (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

        We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
        They already know monsters exist.
        We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

        Comment


        • #64
          It goes on and on.


          Galatians 2 KJV
          (21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

          We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
          They already know monsters exist.
          We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

          Comment


          • #65
            And on.


            Galatians 3 KJV
            (1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
            (2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
            (3) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

            Galatians 3 KJV
            (21) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

            We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
            They already know monsters exist.
            We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Tambora View Post
              Still trying to make it say two instead one.
              Shame shame.
              Please wake up Tambora. First of all I said, grace, faith and good works are needed for salvation. That is not 2, but 3. Therefore, before you should advance any teaching regarding the salvation of souls you should first learn how to count. Shame. Shame.

              Originally posted by Tambora View Post
              Romans 5:18-19 KJV
              (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
              I have no disagreements here. Without Christ none can be righteous. With Christ it is certainly possible to be unrighteous BY DISOBEYING HIM. This is exactly what you are doing. Is this sinking in yet?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Tambora View Post
                It goes on and on.


                Galatians 2 KJV
                (21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
                Your ignorance is also going on. Does anyone here recall me saying that righteousness does not come by following the Mosaic Law? I have no objections to the above, nor does it refute me.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Tambora View Post
                  And on.


                  Galatians 3 KJV
                  (1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
                  (2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
                  (3) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

                  Galatians 3 KJV

                  (21) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
                  Does anyone here recall me saying that one cannot achieve salvation by obeying the Mosaic Law? Why then do you think these Scriptures refute me?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                    Salvation is moving from death to life. He who has died (with Christ) has been freed from sin.
                    Yes, and that is a permanent solution. It is eternal life.
                    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                    Pro scripture = Protestant

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                      Yes, and that is a permanent solution. It is eternal life.

                      Wonder not, brethren, if the world hate you. [14] We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not, abideth in death. [15] Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer. And you know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in himself. (1 John 3:13-15)

                      Loving one's brother is a good work. Remember St. Paul said...

                      And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. (1 Cor 13:2)

                      Jesus said...

                      Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life. (John 5:24)

                      Do you hear the word of Jesus...

                      And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? [17] Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt. 19:16-17)

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Fisherofmen View Post
                        Please wake up Tambora. First of all I said, grace, faith and good works are needed for salvation. That is not 2, but 3. Therefore, before you should advance any teaching regarding the salvation of souls you should first learn how to count. Shame. Shame.



                        I have no disagreements here. Without Christ none can be righteous. With Christ it is certainly possible to be unrighteous BY DISOBEYING HIM. This is exactly what you are doing. Is this sinking in yet?
                        You are the one sleeping here. Faith alone leads to Grace and all good works come from Grace, not works to earn. You do not deserve anything from God and there is no works one can do that are good.

                        What Timothy was saying is the one can judge who is saved by works done AFTER one has been saved. People often do not read it correctly.
                        So, what?

                        believe it!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Ktoyou View Post
                          You are the one sleeping here. Faith alone leads to Grace and all good works come from Grace, not works to earn. You do not deserve anything from God and there is no works one can do that are good.
                          If this were so then one could not have faith without works, since according to you works automatically proceed. This, however, is heresy, and is refuted by the clear words of Scripture which says...

                          Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:19-20)

                          Yet this would be impossible according to you since you say works proceed automatically from grace which automatically proceed from faith. St. James clearly says, that it is possible to have faith without works. Even a faith that could move mountains avails NOTHING without charity...

                          And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. (1 Cor. 13:2)

                          You err greatly.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Fisherofmen View Post
                            Does anyone here recall me saying that one cannot achieve salvation by obeying the Mosaic Law? Why then do you think these Scriptures refute me?
                            Only one has.
                            You deny it is by the righteousness and obedience of one, and still try to add two in there.
                            Shame shame.

                            Here it is again for the naysayers:


                            Romans 5 KJV
                            (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
                            (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


                            Pay close attention.
                            ONE

                            We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                            They already know monsters exist.
                            We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Fisherofmen View Post
                              If this were so then one could not have faith without works, since according to you works automatically proceed.
                              I did not say that you
                              So, what?

                              believe it!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Fisherofmen?

                                More like...A Fishy Story.

                                Rom. 5:8
                                Acts 17:11,12

                                Comment

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