ECT Mad finds itself in the trash by applying simple logic

[Lazy afternoon]

Once again because it bears repeating.

The apostles healed with cloth, words and shadows. Instantly. Completely.

You're still disabled and in pain.

You are not "healed."

Who told you that?

If anyone claims to have received anything from God, Musterian and John W are the first to fight against it.

Do they have special revelation from God?

LA

 

[musterion]

Who told you that?

Your unbelief in the Word isn't my problem.

If anyone claims to have received anything from God, Musterian and John W are the first to fight against it.

Do they have special revelation from God?

LA

Yes we do! His completed, sufficient Word, which your judaized cult and its all-powerful idol of emotional highs only gives lip service to.

The problem with you charismatics is always the same. Either you're bored with Scripture, you don't really believe it, or you don't understand it. Whichever is the case, you're always on the lookout for newer and bigger experiences because you are unsatisfied with the Bible alone. Then you refer to the Bible only as a prooftext and justification of whatever new thing your tickled ears chased after. You're all like Israel of old...faithless and whoring because God's faithful Word to you just ain't enough.

Besides...you have a murderous heart so you have no business correcting anyone else on anything.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Your unbelief in the Word isn't my problem.



Yes we do! His completed, sufficient Word, which your judaized cult and its all-powerful idol of emotional highs only gives lip service to.

The problem with you charismatics is always the same. Either you're bored with Scripture, you don't really believe it, or you don't understand it. Whichever is the case, you're always on the lookout for newer and bigger experiences because you are unsatisfied with the Bible alone. Then you refer to the Bible only as a prooftext and justification of whatever new thing your tickled ears chased after. You're all like Israel of old...faithless and whoring because God's faithful Word to you just ain't enough.

Besides...you have a murderous heart so you have no business correcting anyone else on anything.

LAs "Death Predictions" regarding fellow posters is just plain CREEPY! :execute:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Who told you that?

If anyone claims to have received anything from God, Musterian and John W are the first to fight against it.

Do they have special revelation from God?

LA

LA, you poor soul.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Christians walked over flooded rivers in Indonesia in modern times and ate deadly things and survived.

Believers need not put God to the test.

Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Mat 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Mat 9:7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

So you see that the scriptures prove you wrong.

Healing and forgiveness of sins accompany each other at the same time.

Thousands of saints have testified of it.



LA

Those verses of Scripture were pertaining to The House of Israel only, not to the Gentiles.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, and then the end shall come.

Today, only The Grace Gospel that The Ascended Christ gave to The Apostle Paul is being preached. Anything else would be considered "Another gospel" according to Scripture.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You elevate experience above the word?

What if healing came instant? you wouldnt have believed me anyway, or just brushed it aside as a misdiagnosis.
You dont believe in healing, and I dont care, so lets get back to the thread subject.

Healing today is the exception and not the rule. God can and does heal, however, not like He was doing 2000 years ago. Pentecostal/Charismatics carry their beliefs to a false conclusion.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The healing spoken of here came as a result of believing the "gospel of the kingdom" and not the "gospel of grace":

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

It was when the "gospel of the kingdom" was preached when those who believed that gospel received these gifts of the Spirit. Of course these gifts are no longer being given to believers.

So don't attempt to drink any deadly thing.

Good post.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Excuses.

Lazarus had no faith when he was raised. Nor did the young man what fell out the window.



I'm a much bigger believer in God's ability to miraculously heal today than you are, because I date not try to impose "the will of faith" on Him the way Asuza witchcraft cultists try to do.

What was going on in the 1990s in the Charismatic movement was not of God. Counterfeit miracles and trickery were occurring. These people traded in their common sense for a few supposed miracles that satisfied their taste buds at the time. I haven't kept up on the "Movement" these days, so I don't know what's going on today. However, they had some pretty DISGUSTING things going on in the 90s. One needs to look on You Tube to see some pitiful examples. There was a myriad of false teachers/preachers spreading "Plague like" distortions of reality to a bunch of naive and unknowledgeable folks, back then.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not instantly, but maybe that is where the limit of my faith is right now. However, you do not return to work in 4 weeks without a back brace after smashing to vertebraes that are unstable. I had to fight the doctor to demand a back to work certificate.

You dont like it because you dont want to believe in healing, cause you dont want the responsibility of believing. It is difficult when bombarded of thoughts of being paralised for refusing surgery. This way of life is not for weaklings like you.

The Charismatics frauds (supposed preachers) would most likely use the "Not enough faith" excuse for an incomplete healing.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Christians walked over flooded rivers in Indonesia in modern times and ate deadly things and survived.

You prove that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous.

 

[andyc]

OK
Regarding the healing, it's obvious some of you are going to see a progressive healing of bad spinal injury as a faith failure, and if I fail to recover completely, it is a faith failure, I agree. It's easy to talk about healing when 100% healthy, so right now my faith is being tested.

I would have thought that even the most hardened of you madists would wish me well though. I wouldn't wish on anyone the pain that I've been through in the last 7 weeks.

If you want to continue arguing healing, resurrect an old thread on it.

 

[andyc]

Paul made it plain that David, who lived under the law, was saved apart from works:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).​

David didn't experience salvation by grace through faith, but rather foresaw it.


​

Peter knew that he was saved by grace:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11; NIV).​

"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

Peter experienced salvation by grace through faith, as your examples show.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

He wasnt under the law then, was he?
If it is of grace it cannot be of works, otherwise grace is nolonger grace, yes?

Yes, he lived under the law. But as Paul said, those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

When Jesus forgave peoples sins when they believed, what were they believing in?

They were believing in His identity. He told the Jews this:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

The Jews who believed that He is the Christ, the Son of God, were saved the moment they believed that truth (Jn.20:31;1 Jn.5:1-5).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

David didn't experience salvation by grace through faith, but rather foresaw it.

So when do you think he was saved by grace through faith?

 

[andyc]

Do you believe that those who believe in MAD are saved by grace?

I believe the chances are high that some are not, but it's not for people to judge who on an individual basis.
The problem with mad is that salvation is not based on salvation by faith, but rather knowledge masquerade as faith. Madists assume that a person's life can be hidden in Christ by association alone. It's a dangerous system of thinking. However, there are some madists who are more balanced with their understanding of faith, and their interest in mad is more focused on the dispensational matters.

 

[andyc]

Here we see the gospel which was associated with healing:

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick... And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:2,6).​

We know that this is not the gospel which proclaims that Christ died for our sins because at that time they didn't even know that Christ was to die:

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished...And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken" (Lk.18:31,33-34).​

So they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die when they were preaching a gospel and healing everywhere. That means that the gospel which is centered on the fact that "Christ died for our sins" was not the gospel which they preached when they were healing.

The gospel which they preached is spoken of here:

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

Since the gospel spoken of there does not belong to the present dispensation then the gifts of the spirit likewise do not belong to the present dispensation.

So please do not drink any deadly things.

This is why I started this thread. What was the basis for peoples sins to be forgiven when they believed in Jesus?

So far no madist has responded.

Go and think about this, and come back with a credible response if you are able.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You prove that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous.

LA believes many many crazy things, but he refuses to believe 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV).

 

[Right Divider]

I believe the chances are high that some are not, but it's not for people to judge who on an individual basis.
The problem with mad is that salvation is not based on salvation by faith, but rather knowledge masquerade as faith.

That's funny coming from you. Please PROVE that with some quotes.

Madists assume that a person's life can be hidden in Christ by association alone.

andyc assumes this, since he provides NOT documentation whatsoever.

It's a dangerous system of thinking. However, there are some madists who are more balanced with their understanding of faith, and their interest in mad is more focused on the dispensational matters.

How gracious of you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

This is why I started this thread. What was the basis for peoples sins to be forgiven when they believed in Jesus?

So far no madist has responded.

I'm a MADist and here is my answer:

They had their sins forgiven when they believed in the identity of the Lord Jesus. He told the Jews this:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

The Jews who believed that He is the Christ, the Son of God, had their sins forgiven and were saved the moment they believed that truth (Jn.20:31;1 Jn.5:1-5).