ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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Lon

Lon

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Sonnet said:
I have believed in the past - in between now.

Now back to the thread...I don't want to derail it.
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You don't realize what you are saying, it applies directly to this thread: If you believe the Lord Jesus Christ (stop for a moment to consider this far) died on a cross (more moment for meditation) to save you (again, please take it ALL in) from sin...

Now realize you are saying quite a few things in just this alone... If you truly believe this and do nothing with it, do you truly believe it?

Without realizing it, I believe you provide the dichotomy, yourself. Either Christ died to save you, in which you would surely be saved, or He did not. I have said I believe completely in John 3:16 and that world means world. I am a different Calvinist on that note, but all Calvinist. Spurgeon believed this too, but I believe he reconciled the dichotomy. I believe I have too and I've actually given the answer in thread, though not directly toward any question. Most people assume at this point... I believe your answer to whether or not the Lord Jesus Christ died to save you will indeed reconcile the thread. Think on all (all) you are telling me when you say you believe (1) The Lord Jesus Christ (2) died on a cross (3) to save you (4) from sin (5). In Him -Lon

Lon said:
"If" Christ died for you, are you saved? You have said you believe it.
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Sonnet said:
yes.
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:think:
Sonnet said:
I have believed in the past - in between now.
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Sonnet

Sonnet

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Lon said:
You don't realize what you are saying, it applies directly to this thread: If you believe the Lord Jesus Christ (stop for a moment to consider this far) died on a cross (more moment for meditation) to save you (again, please take it ALL in) from sin...

Now realize you are saying quite a few things in just this alone... If you truly believe this and do nothing with it, do you truly believe it?

Without realizing it, I believe you provide the dichotomy, yourself. Either Christ died to save you, in which you would surely be saved, or He did not. I have said I believe completely in John 3:16 and that world means world. I am a different Calvinist on that note, but all Calvinist. Spurgeon believed this too, but I believe he reconciled the dichotomy. I believe I have too and I've actually given the answer in thread, though not directly toward any question. Most people assume at this point... I believe your answer to whether or not the Lord Jesus Christ died to save you will indeed reconcile the thread. Think on all (all) you are telling me when you say you believe (1) The Lord Jesus Christ (2) died on a cross (3) to save you (4) from sin (5). In Him -Lon


:think:
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My 'yes' is agreeing that scripture claims Christ died for all rather than scripture claims that Christ died for some.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
My 'yes' is agreeing that scripture claims Christ died for all rather than scripture claims that Christ died for some.
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" . . It will be seen that everyone lives either with the fear of God before his eyes or not. Our preferences, our standards of morality, our purpose in life accord with a theistic worldview, or they do not. And if they do not, we are acting on the assumption, whether we admit it or not, that there is no God to hold us responsible. Suspension of judgment, so-called, is but a disguised, if dignified, form of unbelief. A choice, therefore, cannot be avoided."

Gordon H. Clark, "A Christian View of Men and Things"
 
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Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
Scripture emphatically and explicitly claims that Christ died for all men - me included...even Judas.
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Christ died for all men who will believe the Gospel. Hebrews 10:38

He did not die for unbelievers who draw back to perdition. Hebrews 10:39
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Sonnet said:
My 'yes' is agreeing that scripture claims Christ died for all rather than scripture claims that Christ died for some.
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Not quite. It is personal either way, because a suspended or disbelief does not in fact, believe the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to save him/her from sin. It is really very important that you understand this: At the moment, you do NOT believe (suspended) that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your sins, specifically. You are against even the Arminian message because you suspend belief that He died for you. It seems you've had quite a stir in your life that has caused you some unrest. I pray you get through it. -Lon

Lon said:
If you believe the Lord Jesus Christ (stop for a moment to consider this far) died on a cross (more moment for meditation) to save you (again, please take it ALL in) from sin...

Now realize you are saying quite a few things in just this alone... If you truly believe this and do nothing with it, do you truly believe it?

Think on ... you believe (1) The Lord Jesus Christ (2) died on a cross (3) to save you (4) from sin (5). In Him -Lon
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Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Nang said:
Christ died for all men who will believe the Gospel. Hebrews 10:38

He did not die for unbelievers who draw back to perdition. Hebrews 10:39
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I can assume that you will ignore what I would say regarding this...since you have ignored many previous posts.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Lon said:
Not quite. It is personal either way, because a suspended or disbelief does not in fact, believe the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to save him/her from sin. It is really very important that you understand this: At the moment, you do NOT believe (suspended) that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your sins, specifically. You are against even the Arminian message because you suspend belief that He died for you. It seems you've had quite a stir in your life that has caused you some unrest. I pray you get through it. -Lon
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Oksy - but my interest is in what scripture actually claims.




And thanks.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Nang said:
There are no contradictions between the Doctrine of Limited Atonement, and Perseverance of the Saints. All five points of the Doctrines of Grace build upon and support each other.

Hebrews 10:38-39 contains all five points.
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Like I said - no point responding.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Nang said:
There are no contradictions between the Doctrine of Limited Atonement, and Perseverance of the Saints. All five points of the Doctrines of Grace build upon and support each other.

Hebrews 10:38-39 contains all five points.
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Why not try putting as much effort into replying to sincere posters who have questions of you rather than efforts expended to sidetrack the discussions away from your responsibility to do so?
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Why not try putting as much effort into replying to sincere posters who have questions of you rather than efforts expended to sidetrack the discussions away from your responsibility to do so?
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:doh: Do you even pay attention? You are too old for this kind of thing any more, CR. You have nothing left of evaluation and all of vinegar and ready-made vitriolic response. Is this really how you want to be remembered and go out in this life??? She answered broadly or rather specifically depending on your (or another's) understanding of Calvinism. Ask questions if you don't understand. I got her the instant she spoke and I suspect, so did Sonnet, at least more clearly than you did. Try not to leave out of this life bitter. -Lon
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Lon said:
:doh: Do you even pay attention? You are too old for this kind of thing any more, CR. You have nothing left of evaluation and all of vinegar and ready-made vitriolic response. Is this really how you want to be remembered and go out in this life??? She answered broadly or rather specifically depending on your (or another's) understanding of Calvinism. Ask questions if you don't understand. I got her the instant she spoke and I suspect, so did Sonnet, at least more clearly than you did. Try not to leave out of this life bitter. -Lon
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Take a hike, hypocrite.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Lon said:
:doh: Do you even pay attention? You are too old for this kind of thing any more, CR. You have nothing left of evaluation and all of vinegar and ready-made vitriolic response. Is this really how you want to be remembered and go out in this life??? She answered broadly or rather specifically depending on your (or another's) understanding of Calvinism. Ask questions if you don't understand. I got her the instant she spoke and I suspect, so did Sonnet, at least more clearly than you did. Try not to leave out of this life bitter. -Lon
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Actually Lon, the reality is that there has been a pattern of non-response from Nang and others of the same persuasion on this thread.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Sonnet said:
Actually Lon, the reality is that there has been a pattern of non-response from Nang and others of the same persuasion on this thread.
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Might be, but she answered you fairly specifically, if you have any background in Calvinism. It 'seems' you do. If not, asking a question is better than emoting, I think with few exceptions.

I yet think the biggest issue needs to be whether God so loved you that He gave His only Begotten Son, that when you believe in Him, you will not perish, but have everlasting life. Something has happened in your life. College did a bit of a number on me. A few friends have had other tribulation. Tribulation, Peter says, is part of being refined. Hebrews 12 tells us if we don't go through refinement, we aren't legitimate children. Honestly, and please believe me: as soon as you settle this, the thread will be about over at that point too.
As soon as you embrace that the Lord Jesus Christ died for you, it will take care of the one person that you need to answer this question for: Yourself. We cannot answer it for anybody else. I can give you my views. It is of paramount importance that you find out what you believe about the Lord Jesus Christ dying for your sins to save you.
 
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