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The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

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    Washington Square Park
    I haven't gone fishing, I've been studying and preparing to do more evangelism.

    This week end I was arguing with a very bright young man who is starting his career in neuroscience. I was making the case for the existence of the soul since he was studying how chemical reactions produce thoughts.

    I used the rules of logic to show him how atheism is irrational.

    Law of identity: particles are mindless

    Mindless particles cannot produce it's antithesis.

    A thing cannot both be mind and not mind.

    Without the rules of rational thought I wouldn't do evangelism. Because of the rules of rational thought I became an open theist and a creationist.

    Because I have always been an artist I can imagine and draw or paint just about anything. But not everything we can imagine is real or even possible. I can imagine both flat earth and our current model, just as I can imagine evolution and creation, but...

    Rational thought is discarded when "everything is God"

    Rational thought is discarded when "everything is nature"

    Rational thought is discarded when "everything is moving or changing"

    I have pointed out many of the contradictions in the heliocentric model that those in flat earth have demonstrated. The contradictions that I have seen is the reason I started this debate and still have an interest in it.

    --Dave
    www.dynamicfreetheism.com
    The only view of ultimate reality that provides
    rational answers to the questions of human origin, destiny, and dignity.
    The only view that proves the existence and explains
    the nature of God.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DFT_Dave View Post
      I have pointed out many of the contradictions in the heliocentric model that those in flat earth have demonstrated. The contradictions that I have seen is the reason I started this debate and still have an interest in it.

      --Dave
      Hey Dave... you've not done a good job of being logical in this "debate". You've been more of a parrot; just repeating what you "heard".
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DFT_Dave View Post
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]26804[/ATTACH]

        Washington Square Park
        I haven't gone fishing, I've been studying and preparing to do more evangelism.

        This week end I was arguing with a very bright young man who is starting his career in neuroscience. I was making the case for the existence of the soul since he was studying how chemical reactions produce thoughts.

        I used the rules of logic to show him how atheism is irrational.

        Law of identity: particles are mindless

        Mindless particles cannot produce it's antithesis.

        A thing cannot both be mind and not mind.

        Without the rules of rational thought I wouldn't do evangelism. Because of the rules of rational thought I became an open theist and a creationist.

        Because I have always been an artist I can imagine and draw or paint just about anything. But not everything we can imagine is real or even possible. I can imagine both flat earth and our current model, just as I can imagine evolution and creation, but...

        Rational thought is discarded when "everything is God"

        Rational thought is discarded when "everything is nature"

        Rational thought is discarded when "everything is moving or changing"

        I have pointed out many of the contradictions in the heliocentric model that those in flat earth have demonstrated. The contradictions that I have seen is the reason I started this debate and still have an interest in it.

        --Dave
        Dave,

        The Earth CANNOT be flat. I have proven it. And I mean that explicitly. I have proven it. I've done so with the clearest and easy to understand logic that anyone could possibly desire or hope for. Indeed, my argument is far more compelling than anything that you rightly cite as 'rational thought' in the above quoted post and yet you remain unconvinced.

        Why won't you allow simple logic and junior high school level math to persuade your mind?

        Clete
        sigpic
        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

        Comment


        • Since “flat earth” is not my original idea, repeating what they were saying was the point of this tread.


          Sent from my iPhone using TOL
          www.dynamicfreetheism.com
          The only view of ultimate reality that provides
          rational answers to the questions of human origin, destiny, and dignity.
          The only view that proves the existence and explains
          the nature of God.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Truster View Post
            The flat earth argument has its foundation in the depths of lunacy. There is something a few feet deeper in that lunacy and that is conversing with a lunatic and expecting rati onal thought and reason. I gave up a few years ago, but can't seem to shake the lunatic.
            This must give you some idea of how atheists feel when dealing with depths of lunacy. How anyone can see the difference between flat Earth arguments and theistic apologetics is somewhat beyond the pale. To the rational thinker it's like saying.....: my magic is better than your magic
            I think it more interesting to be a Rising Ape than a Falling Angel - Terry Pratchet

            ---Science is the poetry of reality---

            Plenty of things happen after you die but none of them will involve you.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hedshaker View Post
              This must give you some idea of how atheists feel when dealing with depths of lunacy. How anyone can see the difference between flat Earth arguments and theistic apologetics is somewhat beyond the pale. To the rational thinker it's like saying.....: my magic is better than your magic
              And you think that atheist magic is the best?
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hedshaker View Post
                This must give you some idea of how atheists feel when dealing with depths of lunacy.
                In other words, what you meant to say was "when dealing with Christians," desu yo ne?

                How anyone can see the difference between flat Earth arguments and theistic apologetics is somewhat beyond the pale.
                For someone who, apparently, is making himself out to be a rational thinker, you seem to have failed the first step of thinking rationally, and that is to know your (in this case, Hed's) opponent's position(s).

                I recommend you read the thread, especially Clete's posts, as it clearly and concisely delineates the differences between the "flat earth" position, which Dave and a few others have taken, and the "globe earth" position, which Clete, I, RD, and most other Christians and plenty of non-Christians on this forum, take.

                In other words, this is a discussion not about "atheists vs. Christians," but "flat earth vs. globe."

                You would do well to keep that in mind.

                To the rational thinker it's like saying.....: my magic is better than your magic
                That's funny, considering A) you've already failed to be rational in your first post in this thread, and B) using straw man arguments ("my magic is better than your magic") only compounds your irrationality.

                If you wish to continue in this thread (and I hope you do, because I love these discussions), please participate in the discussion, rather than being a troll.

                よろしくおねがいします!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  And you think that atheist magic is the best?
                  I find scepticism more rational when confronted with magical claims, you?
                  I think it more interesting to be a Rising Ape than a Falling Angel - Terry Pratchet

                  ---Science is the poetry of reality---

                  Plenty of things happen after you die but none of them will involve you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hedshaker View Post
                    I find scepticism more rational when confronted with magical claims, you?
                    Yes, but God does not use magic.... so I'm fine with that too.
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                      In other words, what you meant to say was "when dealing with Christians," desu yo ne?
                      Along with Islam etc also with homeopathy, star signs, dowsing, crystal healing, flat Earth and so on. The list is long.



                      For someone who, apparently, is making himself out to be a rational thinker, you seem to have failed the first step of thinking rationally, and that is to know your (in this case, Hed's) opponent's position(s).



                      I recommend you read the thread, especially Clete's posts, as it clearly and concisely delineates the differences between the "flat earth" position, which Dave and a few others have taken, and the "globe earth" position, which Clete, I, RD, and most other Christians and plenty of non-Christians on this forum, take.

                      In other words, this is a discussion not about "atheists vs. Christians," but "flat earth vs. globe."

                      You would do well to keep that in mind.
                      I think my point stands. If you believe one differs from the other that's your prerogative.

                      That's funny, considering A) you've already failed to be rational in your first post in this thread, and B) using straw man arguments ("my magic is better than your magic") only compounds your irrationality.
                      Your opinion is noted but you'll forgive me if I see the irrationality else where.

                      If you wish to continue in this thread (and I hope you do, because I love these discussions), please participate in the discussion, rather than being a troll.

                      よろしくおねがいします!
                      You may see a straw man fallacy but Ad hominem is also a logical fallacy. You see flat Earth as irrational but I don't stop there, which was my point. But I'm happy to leave if you don't like it.
                      I think it more interesting to be a Rising Ape than a Falling Angel - Terry Pratchet

                      ---Science is the poetry of reality---

                      Plenty of things happen after you die but none of them will involve you.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hedshaker View Post
                        Along with Islam etc also with homeopathy, star signs, dowsing, crystal healing, flat Earth and so on. The list is long.
                        Hasty generalization. Also red herring, as that's not what this thread is about.

                        Still irrational.

                        I think my point stands. If you believe one differs from the other that's your prerogative.
                        What's amusing is that you're doing exactly what Dave has been doing the last few times he's posted, and you don't even seem to realize it.

                        Your opinion is noted but you'll forgive me if I see the irrationality else where.
                        So far, the only ones here being irrational are the flat earthers and you.

                        You may see a straw man fallacy but Ad hominem is also a logical fallacy.
                        So is hasty generalization.

                        You see flat Earth as irrational
                        Rather, it's been proven to be irrational, and even in this very thread.

                        Would you at least agree to that much?

                        but I don't stop there, which was my point.
                        Which is why A) I pointed out that this thread isn't about anything but FE vs globe, and B) that such is going beyond the scope of this thread.

                        But I'm happy to leave if you don't like it.
                        You're welcome to stay, just don't be a troll, or I'll, at the very least, remove you from the thread.

                        An alternative would be to start your own thread with what you said in your first post in this one, that way you won't derail this thread.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hedshaker View Post
                          You see flat Earth as irrational but I don't stop there, which was my point. But I'm happy to leave if you don't like it.
                          You don't seem to understand the point.

                          First of all, we do not "see flat Earth as irrational" as though its merely our opinion. It IS irrational. The fact that we see it as it is doesn't turn the fact of it's irrationality into a mere opinion.

                          Additionally, the act of calling theism irrational doesn't make it so. Claiming an equivalence between flat earth theory and theism doesn't make it so. In fact, I can very easily make perfectly rational arguments that prove theism to be the very foundation of rational thought and so who would be in the irrational boat with the flat earthers then?

                          So then, the point that you can't seem to grasp is this....

                          Anyone can get on this website and make claims. If you're interested in doing something toward establishing your claim that theism, in whatever form one finds it, is as irrational as flat earth theory, then I invite you to start a thread and write a post that draws parallels between arguments made by both groups and then post a link to that thread here if you like. Otherwise, no one here is at all interested in your baseless claims and personal opinions.

                          In short, make an argument or keep your opinions to yourself.

                          Clete
                          sigpic
                          "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                          Comment


                          • Even God knows the earth is round.

                            Isaiah 40:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
                            22 God sits above the circle of the earth.
                            The people below seem like grasshoppers to him!
                            He spreads out the heavens like a curtain
                            and makes his tent from them.
                            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                            Jim Elliot

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                              Even God knows the earth is round.

                              Isaiah 40:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
                              22 God sits above the circle of the earth.
                              The people below seem like grasshoppers to him!
                              He spreads out the heavens like a curtain
                              and makes his tent from them.
                              One could believe that the earth is flat and round. A quarter is round and flat. In any event, do you believe that God is a giant, so people are like grasshoppers to him?

                              Do you believe God lives in a tent?

                              Comment


                              • The moon is likewise a flat disc?

                                As is the sun? and the telescopically observable planets?
                                "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                                "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                                Pro scripture = Protestant

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