The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[Clete]

I was told pretty much the same thing when I became an open theist.

--Dave

If you could make rational arguments in favor of a flat Earth then it would be different but you discredit yourself and everyone associated with Open Theism with this abject stupidity, which is why it makes me so angry! You have to drop this nonsense!

 

[Yorzhik]

Flat Earth Perspective & Sunsets Field of View Explained in 2 minutes

The best and shortest explanation of geometric plane geometry with perspective I have ever seen.

--Dave

The vid showed the sun first moving down and then away. Is that how it appears to everyone on earth? Down and then away?

It should look like this:View attachment 26566

 

[Stripe]

I don't know why anyone on a debate site would not understand the basics of debate.

Are you going to defend every idea?

If I or someone else does not take the for position there would be not debate about flat earth.

Big deal. :idunno:

There's no debate on this site about a lot of stupid ideas.

That's a good thing.

That I believe it or not is not the issue, the issue is are the arguments made for flat earth valid or not, regardless of who makes the argument.

The basis of a healthy debate is that a defense is raised of a tenable idea. With your approach, we could be arguing over literally anything, no matter how insane. When we debate what we hold to be true, there is a chance for a sensible conclusion. With your approach, a sensible conclusion is impossible.

Flat earth is a growing movement that reflects the earliest and longest held cosmology of the universe with Biblical support.

The Bible doesn't teach a flat Earth.

NASA is a secret government agency that is part of the "military industrial complex", Eisenhower warn us about and not to be trusted.

This is irrelevant.

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[DFT_Dave]

If you could make rational arguments in favor of a flat Earth then it would be different but you discredit yourself and everyone associated with Open Theism with this abject stupidity, which is why it makes me so angry! You have to drop this nonsense!

I just don't get your anger. You and others have had an opportunity to explain why the earth is not flat.

For years I've wanted to know why we have accepted Einstein's irrational space-time universe and now a quantum multiverse.

We are possibly headed, I believe, for a great deception that Aliens have arrived to "save" us. They will actually be fallen angels, etc. and if that be so we can thank Stat Trek and Star Wars for replacing Biblical prophecy, and maybe Copernicus.

I have always taught Biblical Prophecy in my churches and I have always taught all the possible interpretations lest we are deceived because the only one we knew was the wrong one. If I were to teach cosmology I would do the same--teach all of them.

--Dave

 

[chair]

..

For years I've wanted to know why we have accepted Einstein's irrational space-time universe and now a quantum multiverse.

We are possibly headed, I believe, for a great deception that Aliens have arrived to "save" us....

Dave.

Einsteins ideas have nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. You are lumping every idea that you don't understand together, and subscribe to the strangest conspiracy theories. You do not sound rational.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave.

Einsteins ideas have nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. You are lumping every idea that you don't understand together, and subscribe to the strangest conspiracy theories. You do not sound rational.

You misunderstand rationality.

Rational thought is propositional. If this than that. There are three laws of rational thought, I doubt you know what they are.

Einstein has everything to do with making time and space the same thing.

Time keeps everything from happening at the same eternal moment.

Space keeps everything from happening in the exact same place.

Einstein combines his Pantheism with his cosmology. Quantum and multiverses is pure atheism.

And I understand theologies, philosophies, and cosmologies far better than you ever will.

--Dave

 

[chair]

You misunderstand rationality.

Rational thought is propositional. If this than that. There are three laws of rational thought, I doubt you know what they are.

Einstein has everything to do with making time and space the same thing.

Time keeps everything from happening at the same eternal moment.

Space keeps everything from happening in the exact same place.

Einstein combines his Pantheism with his cosmology. Quantum and multiverses is pure atheism.

And I understand theologies, philosophies, and cosmologies far better than you ever will.

--Dave

Dave, despite your high opinion of your knowledge, you remain ignorant of these things. The first step is to admit that you don't know. Then you can take steps to fix the situation. I will be glad to help you, but you have to take the first step.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Are you going to defend every idea?

Big deal. :idunno:

There's no debate on this site about a lot of stupid ideas.

That's a good thing.

The basis of a healthy debate is that a defense is raised of a tenable idea. With your approach, we could be arguing over literally anything, no matter how insane. When we debate what we hold to be true, there is a chance for a sensible conclusion. With your approach, a sensible conclusion is impossible.

The Bible doesn't teach a flat Earth.

This is irrelevant.

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You are welcome to your opinion, and everyone else is welcomed to theirs.

There are many scholars that say the Biblical cosmology is flat earth.

The sun is always said to move across the sky and the sun stood still for Joshua. The heavens, God's throne, and Christ's ascent to go and be with the Father are all "above" the earth. The is no above in the heliocentric universe. There's not a place for a literal heaven or God. Only on a flat earth can all the language about God and his location be taken literally. Flat earth is clearly implied when scripture is taken literally.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, despite your high opinion of your knowledge, you remain ignorant of these things. The first step is to admit that you don't know. Then you can take steps to fix the situation. I will be glad to help you, but you have to take the first step.

No thanks.

--Dave :rotfl:

 

[Clete]

I just don't get your anger. You and others have had an opportunity to explain why the earth is not flat.

Did that!

You remain unconvinced.

THAT'S what makes me angry.

For years I've wanted to know why we have accepted Einstein's irrational space-time universe and now a quantum multiverse.

Because "we" are taught too.

It's the same reason why most Christians have/had Christian parents and why most Buddhists grew up with Buddhist parents. We believe what we're taught to believe.

We are possibly headed, I believe, for a great deception that Aliens have arrived to "save" us.

You cannot possibly be serious.

They will actually be fallen angels, etc. and if that be so we can thank Stat Trek and Star Wars for replacing Biblical prophecy, and maybe Copernicus.

This is literally insane stupidity. Anyone who falls for such nonsense, which will be next to no one, deserves what they get.

I have always taught Biblical Prophecy in my churches and I have always taught all the possible interpretations lest we are deceived because the only one we knew was the wrong one. If I were to teach cosmology I would do the same--teach all of them.

--Dave

Such base covering is not possible and is in fact a waste of time.

The wiser move would be to focus on the truth. Exposure to other ideas is fine but trying to teach them as though they are potentially true would only serve to increase confusion and deter people from believing the actual truth. If you aren't convinced that you know what the truth is, you aren't qualified to be teaching anything and need to simply keep your pie hole shut.

Clete

 

[Stripe]

...when scripture is taken literally.

Ah. There's your problem.

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[chair]

No thanks.

--Dave :rotfl:

One who says "Quantum ...is pure atheism." doesn't know what "quantum" means, and likely doesn't know what "atheism" means either.

But you still think "And I understand theologies, philosophies, and cosmologies far better than you ever will. "

Dave, this is very sad, but there isn't much I nor anybody else here can do for you.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Did that!

You remain unconvinced.

THAT'S what makes me angry.

Because "we" are taught too.

It's the same reason why most Christians have/had Christian parents and why most Buddhists grew up with Buddhist parents. We believe what we're taught to believe.

You cannot possibly be serious.

This is literally insane stupidity. Anyone who falls for such nonsense, which will be next to no one, deserves what they get.

Such base covering is not possible and is in fact a waste of time.

The wiser move would be to focus on the truth. Exposure to other ideas is fine but trying to teach them as though they are potentially true would only serve to increase confusion and deter people from believing the actual truth. If you aren't convinced that you know what the truth is, you aren't qualified to be teaching anything and need to simply keep your pie hole shut.

Clete

This is not about me, if I'm convinced one way or another. It's about the topic.

FYI: There are those raised Buddhist who become Christians. There are those raised Christian who become atheists, etc. Everyone will decide for themselves to either continue to believe what they were taught when they were young or they will decide to believe something else.

Who are you tell me, or anyone else, what constitutes good teaching?

That there are various views in evangelicalism, and that we have members in every church that know this, it's only reasonable to acknowledge and compare them.

That you've never been a pastor is quite obvious.

I'm quite sure of what I know to be true but so does everyone including you. I'm not embarrassed about saying when I'm not sure.

How dare you tell me to keep my "pie hole shut", for any reason. Please just deal with the arguments, not me in this uncalled for personal way.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

One who says "Quantum ...is pure atheism." doesn't know what "quantum" means, and likely doesn't know what "atheism" means either.

But you still think "And I understand theologies, philosophies, and cosmologies far better than you ever will. "

Dave, this is very sad, but there isn't much I nor anybody else here can do for you.

Quantum rules out any mind, thought, plan, or purpose for us or the universe. It's all by chance. Atheism is naturalism, all that exists is nature. That atheism is merely a denial of God and not an affirmation of anything--naturalism is at the heart of the irrationality and deception of atheism.

Just try to say something intelligent about the subject, if you can.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Ah. There's your problem.

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Exactly, the problem is just how much of the Bible can we take literally vs not literally.

So much of it is been deemed not literal that one can hardly know what is or is not true about it. This is the reason why for many the Bible is primarily myth.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Quantum rules out any mind, thought, plan, or purpose for us or the universe.

No, Dave, it doesn't. If anything, it shows how brilliant God is, how carefully He designed our universe.

It's all by chance.

Now you're conflating ideas. Evolution is by chance. Mathematics is not.

Atheism is naturalism, all that exists is nature. That atheism is merely a denial of God and not an affirmation of anything--naturalism is at the heart of the irrationality and deception of atheism.

Just try to say something intelligent about the subject, if you can.

--Dave

Dave, do you know what quantum even means?

It means:

It has absolutely nothing to do with atheism.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Exactly, the problem is just how much of the Bible can we take literally vs not literally.

So much of it is been deemed not literal that one can hardly know what is or is not true about it. This is the reason why for many the Bible is primarily myth.

--Dave

The Bible is written from the perspective of man. It's not written from God's perspective.

Yes, God inspired the authors to write what they wrote, but that doesn't mean that everything was made clear to them so that they understood everything they saw and wrote about.

 

[chair]

Quantum rules out any mind, thought, plan, or purpose for us or the universe. It's all by chance. Atheism is naturalism, all that exists is nature. That atheism is merely a denial of God and not an affirmation of anything--naturalism is at the heart of the irrationality and deception of atheism.

Just try to say something intelligent about the subject, if you can.

--Dave

Dave, since I have a doctorate in physical chemistry, and have taken several courses in quantum mechanics, I am clearly not qualified to say anything intelligent about the topic to a true expert like yourself.

 

[DFT_Dave]

No, Dave, it doesn't. If anything, it shows how brilliant God is, how carefully He designed our universe.

Now you're conflating ideas. Evolution is by chance. Mathematics is not.

Dave, do you know what quantum even means?

It means:

It has absolutely nothing to do with atheism.

What Is Quantum Mechanics?
Quantum mechanics is the branch of physics relating to the very small. It results in what may appear to be some very strange conclusions about the physical world. At the scale of atoms and electrons, many of the equations of classical mechanics, which describe how things move at everyday sizes and speeds, cease to be useful. In classical mechanics, objects exist in a specific place at a specific time. However, in quantum mechanics, objects instead exist in a haze of probability; they have a certain "chance" of being at point A, another chance of being at point B and so on.

Many-worlds interpretation
Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). In layman's terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large—perhaps infinite[2]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes.

When chance is at the particle level it becomes the basis for the whole universe made up of particles. By chance this universe came into existence out of all the possible universes that could have resulted. By chance this planet produced all the needed elements to produce and support life out of the many other planets that exist. Infinity means there will be infinite numbers of universes that come and go into and out of existence with others earths, worlds, etc being produced.

A dictionary alone will not help you to understand quantum multiverse theory. Chance is how the universe evolved according to atheists and the haze of probability/chance in quantum physics is the reason.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, since I have a doctorate in physical chemistry, and have taken several courses in quantum mechanics, I am clearly not qualified to say anything intelligent about the topic to a true expert like yourself.

See my reply to JudgeRightly.

--Dave