What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
- Start date
glorydaz
Well-known member
I suppose you think you're making some kind of point here.
I suggest you work on your presentation.
Sonnet
New member
I suppose you think you're making some kind of point here.
I suggest you work on your presentation.
The point is clear to me. You said the Gospel of 1 Cor. 15:3ff is preached to unbelievers but we know consistent Calvinists will not do so. AMR will not do so - that was clear from the quote.
I don't know how I can make it clearer.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, we don't. YOU read into what others say, and I'm tired of explaining how you manage to do so.
Go back to school, and study up on how to read without inserting your own notions onto what you read.
Sonnet
New member
There is no need to put me down GD. There appears to be confusion on both sides.
Re-reading your #1299 post I think I understand what you are saying - that no one is or should be told 'Christ died for our sins' until after they affirm faith.
If my understanding is correct then you do limit the scope of Christ's death for sinners. Paul says, '...this is what we preach,' but you don't.
Sonnet
New member
1 Peter 3:16
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What gospel were the Apostles preaching at Luke 9:6 since at that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34)?
Right Divider
Body part
The gospel of the vague and ambiguous gospel?
Right Divider
Body part
The Bible does say this:
1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Is your refusal to do your duty related to me? I am not anyone's regula fidei. If you think what I have to say on the matter is the final word on your eternal destiny you are in great danger. I think rather you are enjoying being divisive with all these "I am seeking to understand, but cannot find unanimity among the faithful" comments. Do your duty and the rest will sort itself out in your walk of faith.
What I believe and has been made plain enough in this long thread is that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. That is fallen man's duty.
What I have stated is that the good news is not genuinely offered to each and every person, for obviously if this were true each and every person will be saved. To assume that such an offer can be made to each and every person is to assume God is unable to do what He has willed to do, for it is clear not all are saved.
I cannot say to a specific person, Bob, that Jesus died for you, Bob. How can I or anyone possibly know this? What I do know from Scripture is that Jesus' atonement and resurrection secured the salvation for all so given to Him, the believing ones. This was an actual atonement, not a potential atonement, and not the nonsensical hypothetical universalism that would apply with the "potential" assumption.
No pastor must stand in the pulpit and declare to all present that "Jesus died for each and every one of you present here today." This is an abomination of what Scripture teaches unless the pastor is in possession of infallible knowledge of the will of God about each and every one present in that church today.
Rather, the pastor rightly must proclaim to each and every person present that all have sinned and are in jeopardy of the wrath of God for their sins. But, God, in His mercy, has provided a remedy for their dire state of affairs, in that Jesus died for the sins of all that believe upon Him. They need but call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. Those that do will be saved. Those that do not confirm their state of condemnation. Whether or not one is reprobate and unable to do so is irrelevant, for none of us knows the secret will of God. We do as we are commanded, to promiscuously proclaim the good news and leave the secret will of God to God alone. You cannot hide behind this in your reluctance to do your duty, for you do not possess omniscient knowledge of God's will concerning yourself. What you possess is the will to do as you are most inclined to do and you are accountable for the doing therein.
Clear enough for you?
AMR
Sonnet
New member
You said this to me previously:
so it's probably best that I don't respond - other than to quote from your latest post.
Sonnet has the same Bible as the rest of us and he seems to know enough to cast aspersions on certain denominations and explanations. He hasn't trusted after hearing the word of truth.
Ephesians 1:12-14 KJV - 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
glorydaz
Well-known member
If you're trying to use the word of God to admonish me, it isn't doing what you hope. I am not under the bondage of the Law....guilt trips simply don't have the power they had before I was saved by Grace.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, when words don't work, I go for the pictures.
Here is a picture for you. When man sins, he's locked in a prison cell called the Sin Block. When Christ died on the cross, that prison door was opened. The preacher comes along and announces, "Hey guys, the door has been opened. Believe it and come out." Those who believe, come out. Those who don't, remain sitting in a cell with an open door (looking like fools, I might add). Paul then tells those who are gathered in Corinth (those who came out)...See, He died for our sins according to the Scripture." The message doesn't change. Those who look live. Those who come out are forgiven. Those who refuse, will die in their sins (the prison cell with the open door).
It sure looks like the picture matches the words to me. :idunno:
Anything in Romans 10:9 (KJV), 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV), or 1st Corinthians 15:17 (KJV) about Adam, Eve, or Noah? :idunno: Don't overthink it.
Hebrews 11:1-3 KJV - 11 [FONT="]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/FONT][FONT="]2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.[/FONT]
Sonnet
New member
Doesn't faith in the accuracy of the details engender faith in the more substantive part? Matthew 24:34 still looks awkward. So too the Tyre prophecy...
You don't have to respond. I'm just expressing my current thoughts. I think this thread has probably run its course.
Sonnet
New member
Ok, but Titus 2:11, John 3:14-16, John 1:29, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 2:2 would justify a preacher to do just as Paul and the apostles did in 1 Corinthians 15:11. The pronoun 'this' refers to verses 3ff.
Paul does not anywhere precaution against the simple inference of what I and others make. If Paul considered 1 Corinthians 15:3 as words only for believer's ears then he could have explicitly made such an argument - like some here take the time to do.
Easter cinches it though. If Easter's fictional, then zero of this matters, it's all a huge waste of our time and thought. I've narrowed it down to a single, concise proposition---Easter---and you've seen where the Christian Bible itself clearly backs me up. This is your choice. It's that simple. Believe the Bible, or don't. And Bible = Easter.