Lent is ungodly and sinful

[brewmama]

It's a matter of motive.

I've always wondered how you guys seem so sure of other Christians' motives.

 

[glassjester]

Yes.
If you are dealing with demons, you should fast first.

Mark 9:29 29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.​

If you are seeking the will of God, you should also fast.

Acts 14:23 23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.​

Fasting can also be considered a standard part of a godly life.

Luke 2:37 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.​

What is not acceptable is fasting merely for the sake of tradition.

Colossians 2:8 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.​

I agree totally.

So who do you know that is "fake-fasting"?
You must know a great many people doing that, if you are able to say, with any real confidence, that it is "commonly" practiced during Lent.

So who did it?

 

[glassjester]

I've always wondered how you guys seem so sure of other Christians' motives.

ESP?

 

[brewmama]

Yes.
If you are dealing with demons, you should fast first.

Mark 9:29 29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.​

If you are seeking the will of God, you should also fast.

Acts 14:23 23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.​

Fasting can also be considered a standard part of a godly life.

Luke 2:37 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.​

What is not acceptable is fasting merely for the sake of tradition.

Colossians 2:8 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.​

Especially if it is a fake fast, such is commonly practiced at Lent.

If Christ fasted, and His Apostles fasted, and many other people in the Bible fasted, how do you figure that it is manmade, or simply a meaningless tradition? How do you justify that?

And what do you mean by fake fast? There can be 2 kinds of fasting, decrease in quality and decrease in quantity (of food).

 

[glassjester]

Yes.
A If you are dealing with demons, you should fast first.

B If you are seeking the will of God, you should also fast.

C Fasting can also be considered a standard part of a godly life.

D What is not acceptable is fasting merely for the sake of tradition.

I hope you do not mind that I added letters to each of your reasons for fasting.

Of the 3 "acceptable" reasons to fast, and the 1 "unacceptable" reason, how do you know who's fasting for which reason(s)?

Personally, I've fasted for reasons B and C. I've thought a lot about A, too.

D just seems ridiculous and, really, fictitious. Who even does that? Why do anything just for the sake of tradition? If it's not good to do, in and of itself, why do it at all?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I agree totally.

So who do you know that is "fake-fasting"?
You must know a great many people doing that, if you are able to say, with any real confidence, that it is "commonly" practiced during Lent.

So who did it?

This is the Biblical definition of a fast:

Jonah 3:5-8 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.​

This is fake fasting:

_____
Fasting

Fasting is the taking of only one full meal (may include meat) and two smaller meals (meatless) that must be smaller to the lager meal. No snacking between meals is allowed, but water, milk, tea, coffee, and juices are fine. Meat is allowed at one meal, only.
_____​

 

[brewmama]

This is the Biblical definition of a fast:

Jonah 3:5-8 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.​

This is fake fasting:

_____
Fasting

Fasting is the taking of only one full meal (may include meat) and two smaller meals (meatless) that must be smaller to the lager meal. No snacking between meals is allowed, but water, milk, tea, coffee, and juices are fine. Meat is allowed at one meal, only.
_____​

That's one definition. It's not the only one. And we do have strict fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I hope you do not mind that I added letters to each of your reasons for fasting.

Of the 3 "acceptable" reasons to fast, and the 1 "unacceptable" reason, how do you know who's fasting for which reason(s)?

Personally, I've fasted for reasons B and C. I've thought a lot about A, too.

D just seems ridiculous and, really, fictitious. Who even does that? Why do anything just for the sake of tradition? If it's not good to do, in and of itself, why do it at all?

D, fasting for the sake of tradition, is what Catholics do during Lent.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That's one definition. It's not the only one.

Yes, men like to make up anything they want in contrast to what the Bible says.

And we do have strict fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

No, you have the kind of fasting I described as fake fasting according to all the Catholic websites.

 

[brewmama]

D, fasting for the sake of tradition, is what Catholics do during Lent.

How can you possibly know that is the only motive?

 

[brewmama]

Yes, men like to make up anything they want in contrast to what the Bible says.


No, you have the kind of fasting I described as fake fasting according to all the Catholic websites.

I really think you should hold off on your arrogant ideas of what and why other people do what they do, when they themselves don't agree with your assessment. You don't seem to know much about it.

 

[Crucible]

Lent would be more meaningful if it were about permanently giving something up. Otherwise, I have to agree somewhat with the OP- it's just making a spectacle of one's self and doesn't ultimately do anything of value.

 

[genuineoriginal]

How can you possibly know that is the only motive?

Granted, a much greater percent of adult Catholics are sincere Christians than the adult members of most other Christian denominations.

However, the fact remains that Catholics (Episcopalians and Church of England as well) only fast during Lent according to the established guidelines because of tradition.

Any additional motives are tainted by this.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I really think you should hold off on your arrogant ideas of what and why other people do what they do, when they themselves don't agree with your assessment. You don't seem to know much about it.

That is a hypocritical statement when it comes from a Catholic.
The Catholic church is full of the traditions and doctrines of men, to the detriment of the scriptures.

 

[brewmama]

Lent would be more meaningful if it were about permanently giving something up. Otherwise, I have to agree somewhat with the OP- it's just making a spectacle of one's self and doesn't ultimately do anything of value.

Perhaps if you actually tried it you might feel differently. It can be very valuable, and there is nothing of a "spectacle" about it.

 

[brewmama]

Granted, a much greater percent of adult Catholics are sincere Christians than the adult members of most other Christian denominations.

However, the fact remains that Catholics (Episcopalians and Church of England as well) only fast during Lent according to the established guidelines because of tradition.

Any additional motives are tainted by this.

I disagree. And traditions are certainly not all bad. Paul tells us to hold fast to them. You seem to have a distorted view of tradition.

 

[glassjester]

Lent would be more meaningful if it were about permanently giving something up. Otherwise, I have to agree somewhat with the OP- it's just making a spectacle of one's self and doesn't ultimately do anything of value.

I agree.

So who is doing it just to make a spectacle of himself? Who?

 

[glassjester]

D, fasting for the sake of tradition, is what Catholics do during Lent.

Prove it.

 

[Selaphiel]

D, fasting for the sake of tradition, is what Catholics do during Lent.

How do you know that?

All of this "me and my Bible" individualistic Christianity is so far removed from anything resembling the church. There is a church year, cycling through the motions of the central stories of the faith. Each period focusing on various aspects and doctrines of the faith. Lent is a period where there is focus on the fast: Self-giving in the service of others and God. Not so that God will love you, but so that we may more clearly experience and be energized for the service of others by that love.

That was Luther's point: That God loves you first, not so that you can sleep on the couch until you die and then hand in a ticket stamped by some vague notion of faith in some contractual obligation. His point was that the primacy of God's love in salvation frees you for the right motive of such works. You don't do them to earn salvation, you do them truly in the service of others because God has already granted you forgiveness and thus there is nothing to be gained for yourself by doing them. As he expresses it: "A Christian man is the most free lord of all, and subject to none; a Christian man is the most dutiful servant of all, and subject to every one." Free in relation to having to justify himself, dutiful servant in owing his servitude to his fellow man, following the commandments of Christ.

All of the aspects and doctrines throughout the church year are important all the time. But cycling through and focusing on them one at a time, gives the life of faith a rhytm, ensuring that none of them gets neglected.

 

[brewmama]

That is a hypocritical statement when it comes from a Catholic.
The Catholic church is full of the traditions and doctrines of men, to the detriment of the scriptures.

You do know I'm not Catholic don't you? Not sure what you are implying there...

And the Catholic Church can back up many of your so-called "traditions and doctrines of men" biblically. You just don't agree with them. Many Protestant doctrines don't hold up biblically either, especially at this forum.