Lent is ungodly and sinful

[Nick M]

a. it gives you that sense of quiet pride and self-satisfaction (aka self-righteousness) when you hint to others what you're giving up, as some have already trumpeted here on TOL,

b. you're just bowing to social pressure from religious others who'd frown on you not playing along, or

c. you think it makes you more holy and acceptable to God.

d. Probably some mix of the three.

This is a good example of some thinking they can add works to grace.

 

[glassjester]

This is a good example of some thinking they can add works to grace.

How do you know what other people are thinking?

Do you never do good works?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is it sinful for me to fast?

If you think it is worship, perhaps.

 

[glassjester]

If you think it is worship, perhaps.

How come you're allowed to fast, but I'm not?

 

[glassjester]

EDIT: Woah, wrong thread.

 

[This Charming Manc]

You are only adding work to grace if you think it justifies you.

I don't do lent and i'm not good at fasting, but to condemn and judge those who follow Jesus teaching absurd, but usual for your MAD guys.

Just be cause we cannot work for our salvation does not mean we do not need to work out our salvation Ephesians 2:6 - 10.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

How come you're allowed to fast, but I'm not?

You have the grace to do whatever you want.
You can worship whales if you want.

But, giving up twinkies for 40 days isn't glorifying God.

 

[Nick M]

Do you never do good works?

Never for the purpose of trying to please God. The only thing he will accept is his perfect, sinless, righteous Son. And I am in him, my life is hid in him.

No need for him to look at the filth we think is good.

 

[glassjester]

But, giving up twinkies for 40 days isn't glorifying God.

Haha, agreed.

 

[glassjester]

Never for the purpose of trying to please God. The only thing he will accept is his perfect, sinless, righteous Son. And I am in him, my life is hid in him.

No need for him to look at the filth we think is good.

Fair enough.


So when you do good works, it's totally fine.
But if I do good works, it's a work of the flesh.


Nope! No hypocrisy there!
Sounds good.

 

[glassjester]

Never for the purpose of trying to please God. The only thing he will accept is his perfect, sinless, righteous Son. And I am in him, my life is hid in him.

No need for him to look at the filth we think is good.

Now I'm interested.

What is your reason for doing good works?

 

[Nick M]

So when you do good works, it's totally fine.
But if I do good works, it's a work of the flesh.

If you do them thinking you are going to please him, then yes.

 

[serpentdove]

...I said not one word about Catholics.

We are called to testify against them (Ac 14:15). Idolaters should be put to death (Deut. 17:2–5). linger:

 

[serpentdove]

so what did you give up for lent?

linger: Give up Catholicism (Re 17:5)

or share in her sins (Re 18:4). :burnlib:

 

[serpentdove]

why not give up catholic hating for lent?

linger: Ro 12:9, Jud 11 :burnlib:

 

[glassjester]

If you do them thinking you are going to please him, then yes.

I think I agree with you. :think:


What is your reason for doing good works?

 

[brewmama]

My goodness! And what am I to make of one who presumes to judge the state of another Christian's soul?

That is a constant thing with them.

 

[brewmama]

I work almost exclusively with prots and they're the ones going on and on about what they're "surrendering" for Lent.

I know where Lent comes from but I said not one word about Catholics.

Your conscience must be bothering you.

You did not specify, and usually you're into Catholic bashing, so who's to know?

 

[Nick M]

Galatians 5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


I wonder if people really understand this or are applying their preconceived notions from "church" teachings. Walking in the Spirit is to ignore the law. Walking in the Spirit is usually defined wrong on this forum and with many Christians. Paul is very clear.

Earlier in the letter Paul said this;

2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

And fake "Pentecostals" say that is only circumcision. Wrong. Paul is very clear. Under circumcision, you are indebted to keep the whole law. It isn't just about cutting of the flesh, which was foreshadowing.

 

[brewmama]

Once a year you choose to give up, for a brief period, something you normally enjoy. In and of itself, that's neither good nor bad.

But if you're honest, you who observe Lent will explain and justify your observance with one or more of the following:

a. it gives you that sense of quiet pride and self-satisfaction (aka self-righteousness) when you hint to others what you're giving up, as some have already trumpeted here on TOL,

b. you're just bowing to social pressure from religious others who'd frown on you not playing along, or

c. you think it makes you more holy and acceptable to God.

d. Probably some mix of the three.

Also, that Lent is temporary (once a year, briefly) is hypocritical...if something's a big enough deal to surrender "for God" once annually, how do you justify indulging it the rest of the year? Is God really going to be impressed because you give up bon-bons or R-rated movies for a several weeks? Lent is purely of the flesh -- substantially no different in motive than Muslims gorging themselves at night during their days of their "holy" fasts.

So let's call Lent what it actually is: a man-pleasing, God-impressing, self-centered holiday to indulge the flesh under the guise of denying the flesh. It's plain old hypocritical pride -- just like the Pharisees of old whitening their faces during fasts and blowing trumpets when they toss pennies to the poor, all in order to appear more sincere and to impress the rubes with their devoutness.

That's you when you observe Lent.

There is no motivation you can come up with for Lent, as it is practiced, that will justify it as acceptable to God.

I would say you are wrong on all counts. When we fast, we “shift our focus” from ourselves to God and others, spending less time worrying about what to eat, when to eat, how much to eat, and so on in order to use our time in increased prayer and caring for the poor. We learn through fasting that we indeed can gain control over those things that we too often allow to control us—and for many people, food is a controlling factor. [We live in the only society in which an entire TV network is devoted to food!] While fasting from food, however, we are also challenged to fast from sin, from gossip, from jealousy, from anger, and from those other things which, while well within our control, we all too often allow to control us.

Further, just as we would refrain from eating a lot before going to an expensive restaurant for dinner—if we “ruin our appetite” we will hardly enjoy our dinner—so too we fast before Holy Pascha in order to more fully feast and celebrate on the Feast itself.

I guess since you guys have no besetting sins and passions (at least so you claim) you have no need of spiritual exercises to improve yourself. That's nice for you. I, however, prefer to follow Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul on this, and seek a growing communion with God, less attachment to the world and our passions, and more holiness, as we are instructed to do.

It boggles the mind that you think God would disapprove.