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  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by jmibnorthern
    I want to be very careful here. I got in trouble on Reddit for saying things that I did not understand we're bad.
    /r/Christianity?

    Yeah, that's a very liberal subreddit. I've had posts that use biblical arguments downvoted to oblivion.

    TOL isn't reddit.

    Follow the rules and you'll be fine.



    If you were downvoted in that way, there's a good chance that what you said was good.

    The story of a sinner who admits it is not the way he wants to live should be acceptable. But according to the rules you're allowed to call me wicked.

    I agree with everything you said. I want to agree with it.

    I used to follow it really well, not sinning.

    Then at puberty every last person in the world was a devout sinner. I felt useless not sinning. People criticized me and mocked me for not sinning. They called me retarded and gay, and I wasn't either one.

    I sinned every sin. It didn't feel good and I'm ashamed of 11 years.

    Never got any satisfaction from any of it. Never hit that point of end where I was happier ever after that I was expecting. Degenerated every few months. Tried to kill myself multiple times.

    Financial failure. Tried to buy my way back with every penny I had. Got mad at God. Turned to false spirituality.

    Condemn me!

    The redemption wasn't what I thought it would be. No feeling of ecstatic innocence. No friends to walk with on golden streets. I did not return to prepubescence.

    But by thourogh desire, faith, and rejoicing, and being very sorry for everything I had ever done, I recieved a controlled life with serious peace. I recieved maybe 10+ unexplainable miracles. I don't sin as much as I used to. I'm climbing up from the path to the pool of fire and I've made a lot of progress in a little time.

    Thanks for the call back, and the accurate descriptions of sin that must be avoided for love of God.

    Not sure I'm going to heaven, but I'm open to it and trying harder, and looking for more and more truth explained in a way I understand it.

    Good news! Still being harassed for not sinning!

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    So... Um... What is it that you're asking for again?

    Leave a comment:


  • Spartan
    replied
    Do you think you are going to heaven?

    Yes. In fact I've ALREADY CROSSED OVER UNTO ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST.

    John 5:24 - "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to."

    Leave a comment:


  • Vail Lifted
    replied
    Am I going to heaven? A hope that is realized is no longer a hope.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcbsr
    replied
    Concerning the OP I get the impression that it's trying to say that in order to be saved a person must become sinlessly perfect as a prerequisite, which as I read it is justification by the law. Eom 10:4,5 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."

    This in contrast to justification by the grace of God through faith alone.

    Rom 10:6-133
    But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’" (that is, to bring Christ down) "or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile— the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

    That as opposed to salvation being contingent upon one's ongoing performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Guyver View Post
    Good points. Too bad you got banned. There seems to be quite a lot of that around here. That’s should be concerning on a certain level. That level being the suppression of thoughts and ideas of course, if such a thing is in fact occurring.
    Aikido was a troll, nor was he an honest poster.

    He was perma-banned because he made a sock to get around a temporary ban.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guyver
    replied
    Originally posted by aikido7 View Post
    I don't really care.
    Jesus said little about Heaven. Again, Heaven is in great shape and can take care of itself.

    Again, it’s here on Earth where the problems are: disease, poverty, hunger, violence, etc.

    Everybody talks about heaven, paradise, the afterlife.

    The only thing I know is that I will die into God at the end.
    Good points. Too bad you got banned. There seems to be quite a lot of that around here. That’s should be concerning on a certain level. That level being the suppression of thoughts and ideas of course, if such a thing is in fact occurring.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bladerunner
    replied
    John 3:16.."For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    For if you believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) Heaven awaits.

    Blade
    Last edited by Bladerunner; March 15th, 2019, 08:00 PM. Reason: removed the color

    Leave a comment:


  • aikido7
    replied
    I don't really care.
    Jesus said little about Heaven. Again, Heaven is in great shape and can take care of itself.

    Again, it’s here on Earth where the problems are: disease, poverty, hunger, violence, etc.

    Everybody talks about heaven, paradise, the afterlife.

    The only thing I know is that I will die into God at the end.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Yes!

    Romans 10:9-13 King James Version (KJV)
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Leave a comment:


  • aikido7
    replied
    I put my money on Jesus and the Book of Ecclesiastes. Live in the moment and learn what eternity is.

    Live a righteous life, do good and have a safe passage through death. Ecclesiastes [which translates as “the Preacher”] says nothing about an afterlife.

    Jesus said little about Heaven. It was in good shape and could take care of itself.

    For Jesus, salvation had nothing to do with Heaven. It was all about transformation in this life.

    After all, it’s here on earth where the problems are. And the majority of his teachings were concerned with poverty and the extreme income gap.

    In Jesus’ day, the poverty percentage was over 90%. The elites were made up of about 5 to 10%.
    Last edited by aikido7; January 21st, 2019, 03:45 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnHermes
    replied
    Depends on the level of spiritual practices and level of consciousness. I believe the astral realms talk about in the theosophy community (esoteric community) have to do with dreams and astral projection. Inner practice accompanied by outer practice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pierac
    replied
    Originally posted by ABMF View Post
    Purpose: Wake up the sinner who thinks they are a good person and that good deeds will outway the bad. Bring a conviction of sin. Wake up the believer who has sin as a practice. Wake up the unsaved to the condition they are in. Remind those who walk in victory over sin of what they were saved from. ALL to the power and glory of Jesus Christ.

    You think you are going to heaven?Take this test. In taking the test do it in the light of the principle of the question being asked and apply it to your own life circumstances. Lust: (married) persons: Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to, while married to someone else? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts( fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them while married to someone else? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? Decided you could look as long as you don't touch? Married a person who got divorced apart from Gods permission? If yes to any of those God says you are guilty of adultery.

    (to the unmarried or ((married person pertaining to their past before marriage): Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts (fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them ? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? If yes you are guilty of fornication.

    Have you ever committed morally questionable acts and conduct toward others or yourself? Ever enjoy "a good" dirty joke?Then God says you are guilty of uncleanness.Played magic games? Visited a psychic or medium or palm reading? Had your fortune told? Followed a horoscope? Played with a ouija board? Read books with topics of magic, wizards and witchcraft? Followed tv shows of people doing strange and paranormal/supernatural things? Witchcraft? Occult? Twilight? Harry Potter ? Bewitched? If yes to any of those you according to God are unclean.

    You ever committed lustful or sexually offensive actions toward others such as hitting on someone with a sexually explicit pick up line or publicly showed actions in order to attract sexual attention? Posed in a picture as to show sexy? Walked or carried your body, or dressed to attract sexual attention? Hows your beach swim attire? If yes to any God says you are guilty of lewdness.

    Do you put your trust for your health finances and well being in anyone or anything other then God alone? Do you put anyone or anything first foremost and greatest place and part of your life other then God? Do you devote or dedicate your time, effort, ability and skill to anyone or anything other then God or what is of Him?(that includes yourself) Do you esteem, love, give devotion or time over to things that are not Godly or approved of by Him? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of idolatry.

    Ever do drugs? Legal or other? Smoke? If yes then you are guilty before God of sorcery.

    Ever have a serious dislike or distaste with actions or feelings of being hostile or seriously unfriendly toward someone or anyone even if a enemy or opponent? If yes you are guilty of hatred.

    Really ever get angry with a person? If yes then you are before God guilty of murder. Ever shoot anyone even in a war? Or in self defense? Same guilt before God. Murder.

    Ever had strife debate or controversy with a person with animosity wrong intentions or dislike toward them? Sue anyone? Take them to court? Argue with ill will? Get in a fight? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of contentions.

    Ever not like the fact that someone is enjoying success or an advantage like being paid or given more or got attention for his or her accomplishment more then someone you thought deserved it, like yourself? Or even wished you got it or had it and not, or instead of, that person? Wish you got that present or money that so and so got given instead of them? If yes you are guilty of jealousies. If you do these things with covetousness of wanting of the advantages successes and wealth then the guilt of envy comes.

    Ever lash out in anger physically or verbally? punch a wall or beat a person our animal or go into a verbal shouting yelling and screaming fit, have road rage or anger at another driver or person who upset you and you let them know through your actions or in some way that you are mad angry and upset? If yes then you are guilty of out bursts of wrath.

    Ever wish everyone would recognize how good you are and wanted your own personal agenda to be the goal of everyone around you regardless of others? Ever work hard to get accomplished the thing you have always wanted without consideration to the cost of others around you? Career goal that was sacrificed greatly for even if by stealing time or hurting those around you? You are guilty of selfish ambitions.

    Do you regularly get in disagreements and arguments and be that person who certain topics can never be discussed with but you enjoy that? Political and social issues that you argue about and take a stubborn stand on your views and no one better present anything that opposes it or else? If yes you are guilty of dissensions.

    Do you hold beliefs or ideas or thoughts that you believe are true, that are contrary to God and His word? Example do you believe in evolution or other "scientific" explanations of biblical accounts, views, world events along with ethical and moral conduct of society? Be it historical or present? If yes you are guilty of heresies.

    Ever get drunk? Take part in a party with loud music dancing games food fun drinking getting high making out with all the actions and activities of sexual perversion drunkenness ect? If yes you are guilty of the sin of drunkenness and revelries.

    Ever tell a lie?little white lie? Half truth? Explain something in order to give the wrong perception or impression to deceive or keep someone believing an untruth? If yes you are guilty of being a liar.

    Ever steal anything? Take anything that did not belong to you without asking because if you did, someone might object, not wanting you to do so? If yes you are guilty of stealing.

    Ever lie tell a half truth or present a obscure view about someone you knew to someone else as to cause that person you lied about trouble or to look bad and win people over to your point of view about that person? Does that sound like gossip? You are guilty of false witness.

    Ever look at someone’s house and want it? How about wanting some ones wife or husband? Wanting some ones laborer who contracted with them to break that contract and come work for you? Wish you had someone else's horse cows chickens cat or dog? lawn or farm tractor? Truck car boat RV sport utility vehicle? Wanting a painting or musical instrument that is one of a kind or exclusively made but belongs to someone else?If you did any of these type of things with a seriousness then you are guilty of covetousness.

    Ever take the Lord's name in vain? Use it to curse or swear? Even if someone scared you and in surprise expression say oh Jes@$&$? You are guilty of blasphemy.

    Ever want to exert your will over someone else? Ever wish you were the boss so you could show them a thing or to? Ever boast about your abilities and achievements as to present yourself as being someone smart and great or better than others? Ever inflate your achievements to seem greater then what they actually are? Ever try to put yourself at the top and make it seem like your most valuable one in the group as to not be laid off, fired, thought badly about or looked down on or excluded and rejected? Guilt of selfishness and pride of life belongs to you.

    To the person without God: You said no to all the above and say that you have not done any of those things? Or that your good deeds will out weigh the bad? If yes you are guilty of self righteousness and lying. Hypocrite! Look at our own (good part) justice system. Would a good judge acquit a man who was a horrific murderer ( go ahead and create a really bad crime rap sheet list in your own mind) just because he donated large sums of money to charity, helped the poor, saved some one from drowning, doing all that now and then to balance out his crime? To the person "with God" but have any of the above as a regular thing in your life but deny it you are guilty of lying and hypocrisy with self-righteousness.

    You said yes to most of the above and are without God? Here then is the title you have.

    adulterator Fornicating unclean lewd idolater sorcerer hatful Murderer contentious jealous envying wrathful selfish dissentious* heretical drunken reveler lying stealing false witness ( slanderer) covetous selfish prideful blasphemer

    And you are going to stand before a sinless perfect pure holy righteous God and expect Him to let you into heaven?Go ahead and add arrogant to your title. Humans are not worthy to be saved with absolutely no value in or of themselves to ever attract God to love or save them. Humans are to Him of themselves deserving of the very depths of hell with all it's endless horrors and tortures along with all the other demonic creatures and beings who rebelled against Him because they are as them! A rebellious creation who loves the sin they are in and are always pron to do evil! God is so righteous so holy so perfect that He cannot and will not tolerate warm up to be desensitized about or talked into permitting sin. He demands of His creation that they walk before Him and be perfect! If they won't do it then the place prearranged for that sort is where they will go. It is not His desire that they go, but they of their own will not to obey and therefore putting themselves under His wrath and judgment. God is not a humanist. He is not begging you and pleading with you to stop sinning repent, get a new nature to be made perfect by the blood of His Son Jesus Christ who died on a cross and three days later He raised Him from the dead, and by His blood, atonement can be made for your sins. No instead it’s a gentle invitation to all, that whoever will hear can receive forgiveness for their sin and be changed from being a sinner to saved. Anyone who will believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior can be made into a new person and be the perfection through Christ, the work of The Holy Spirit, that God demands. It's the pure Holy blood of Jesus Christ that God shed for the forgiveness of sin that enables you to be made into a new person free from sin and it's desires. You must be born again! Without it you can never be free from sin. With it you will not continue to commit as a practice, sin.

    (The person who has sin as a practice in their lives, meaning as a regular occurrence of normal needs to repent and get right with God and do what it takes to live a life of victory over sin)

    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8 NKJV)

    Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV)

    Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:15-17 NKJV)

    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 NKJV)

    Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18 NKJV)

    But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. (2 Timothy 3:1-9 NKJV)

    knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (apostle Paul speaking in 1 Timothy.)

    But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. (Colossians 3:8-11 NKJV)

    But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 1:5-23 NKJV)

    But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. (Revelation 21:27 NKJV)

    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:14-17 NKJV)

    Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, uI will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ (Jesus Christ) Revelation 3
    Take this test...

    Predestination?

    NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

    Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280) since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will



    29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

    Word study
    G2820

    κληρόω
    klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.
    Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.

    Word study
    G4309

    προορίζω
    proorízō; fut. proorísō, from pró (G4253), before, and horízō (G3724), to determine. To determine or decree beforehand (Act_4:28; Rom_8:29-30; 1Co_2:7; Eph_1:5, Eph_1:11). The peace of the Christian Church has been disrupted due to the misunderstanding which surrounds this word. It behooves the Church to consider the divinely intended meaning of this word by carefully examining the critical passages where it is used. In 1Co_2:7 it has a thing as its obj., namely, the wisdom of God. The purpose was our glory, i.e., our benefits of salvation. In Act_4:28 the verb is followed by the aor. inf. genésthai (gínomai [G1096], to be, become), to be done. The action of Herod and Pontius Pilate in crucifying Jesus Christ is said to have been predetermined or foreordained by the hand and will of God. This indicates that Christ's mission, especially His death and resurrection, was not ultimately the result of human will but originated in the eternal counsel of God which decreed the event determining all its primary and secondary causes, instruments, agents, and contingencies.

    In Rom_8:29-30, predestination is used of God's actions in eternally decreeing both the objects and goal of His plan of salvation. Proorízō has a personal obj., the pl. relative pron. hoús, whom. This relative pron. refers to those previously mentioned as those whom God foreknew (proégnō [G4267]). The translation is, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate." The objects of predestination are those whom He foreknew. Predestination does not involve a predetermined plan only but also includes the individuals for whom the plan is devised. The goal of predestination is expressed in the phrase, "to be conformed to the image of his Son."
    In Eph_1:5, Eph_1:11 this same purpose of foreordination is termed adoption. Adoption (huiothesía [G5206]) is the placing into sonship or legal heirship of those who are born of God. According to Eph_1:5 the basis of this prior decree is "the good pleasure of His will." The word rendered "good pleasure" is eudokía (G2107) and means pleasure or satisfaction, that which seems good. Paul is careful to add that it is the good pleasure of God's will, it is what seems good to God-not man. Similarly, in Eph_1:11 foreordination is based upon "the purpose (próthesis [G4286]) of the One who is working all things ([neut. acc. pl.] tá pánta [G3844], an idiom for the entire metaphysical and physical universe) according to the decision of His will" (a.t.). This same thinking is reflected in Rom_8:30 where foreordination is joined successively to foreknowledge. Here it is presented not as a capricious, arbitrary or whimsical exercise of raw will or unreasoned impulse, but as the expression of a deliberate and wise plan which purposes to redeem those undeserving sinners whom God freely favors as the objects of His mercy.
    Because it is neither possible nor permissible for us to pry into God's secret counsel, it is not proper to be fixated with determining who the predestined are. Instead, we should contemplate the glories of what they are predestined to, i.e., salvation, adoption, or glory.
    Syn.: protássō (G4384), to appoint before; procheirízō (G4400), to appoint beforehand; proetoimázō (G4282), to prepare before.

    NASB Pro 16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is
    from the LORD.

    CEV Pro 16:1 We humans make plans, but the LORD has the final word.


    NASB Pro 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

    CEV Pro 16:9 We make our own plans, but the LORD decides where we will go.


    NASB Pro 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?

    Pro 20:24 The steps of a person73 are ordained by74 the LORD — so how can anyone75
    understand his own76 way?

    Pro 20:24

    73 tn Heb "the steps of a man"; but "man" is the noun גֶּבֶר (gever, in pause), indicating an important, powerful person. BDB 149-50 s.v. suggests it is used of men in their role of defending women and children; if that can be validated, then a translation of "man" would be appropriate here. But the line seems to have a wider, more general application. The "steps" represent (by implied comparison) the course of life (cf. NLT "the road we travel").

    74 tn Heb "from the LORD"; NRSV "ordered by the Lord"; NIV "directed by the Lord."

    sn To say that one's steps are ordained by the LORD means that one's course of actions, one's whole life, is divinely prepared and sovereignly superintended (e.g., Gen_50:26; Pro_3:6). Ironically, man is not actually in control of his own steps.

    75 tn The verse uses an independent nominative absolute to point up the contrast between the mortal and the immortal: "and man, how can he understand his way?" The verb in the sentence would then be classified as a potential imperfect; and the whole question rhetorical. It is affirming that humans cannot understand very much at all about their lives.




    NASB Joh 15:16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    CEV Joh 15:16 You did not choose me. I chose you and sent you out to produce fruit, the kind of fruit that will last. Then my Father will give you whatever you ask for in my name.



    NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

    CEV Joh 6:44 No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

    Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Net Bible
    Joh 6:44 -

    66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).

    sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).



    NASB Joh 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

    CEV Joh 6:65 Then Jesus said, "You cannot come to me, unless the Father makes you want to come. That is why I have told these things to all of you."

    Let's get to the POINT...


    NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

    CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

    NASB Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

    CEV Mat 22:14 Many are invited, but only a few are chosen.



    NASB Mar 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the
    kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that indeed see
    but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be
    forgiven
    ."



    NASB Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or
    bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue
    , not because of works but
    because of him who calls
    --12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

    Don't be so proud!


    Paul



    Belief is a GIFT - Phil 1:29 - "For you have been granted [the gift] to grant as a favor for Christ's sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf."


    Faith is a GIFT - Eph 2:8-10 - "For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [ the gift of] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

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  • Dartman
    replied
    Originally posted by jamie View Post
    If a person is dead they can't move, they can't go anywhere on their own.
    Exactly!!! And, NO ONE is going to heaven, except Jesus, and he is coming back here!

    Leave a comment:


  • joeyarnoldvn
    replied
    Once saved, then always saved, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gurucam
    replied
    please re-read post # 356 above. I have added to it for increased clarity.

    please re-read post # 356 above. I have added to it for increased clarity.

    Leave a comment:

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