Matthew 12:40

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OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

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RHEOSTATS

1. ARE THERE NOT 12 HOURS IN A DAY LIKE JESUS SAID ??????

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?

2. Wednesday, Nisan 14, they were sacrificing the Lamb in the Temple

as well as Crucifying Jesus .

3. Jesus Rose Before Sunday Morning because the Day begins and ends at DAWN.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
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Ge 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly,
23 And the evening came and the morning came the fifth day.
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4. WEDNESDAY , AT 6 PM JESUS IN THE TOMB PUT THERE BY HIS FATHER JOSEPH.

THURS 6 PM = 24 HOURS

FRIDAY 6 PM = 24 HOURS

SATDAY 6 PM = 24 HOURS

SUNDAY 6 AM = 12 HOURS = 3 1/2 DAYS

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R

rstrats

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OCTOBER23,

Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably don't know of any writing as requested in the OP.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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rstrats said:
Sure there is. There are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language. If it can be said that it is a common iidiom, I'd think that there should be several examples from the period to support that assertion.
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You want to deny what Ignatius wrote?
Do you have any proof that the timeline given by Ignatius was disputed by anyone from the same time period?
Or are you just making up a point of contention where none actually exists?
 
R

rstrats

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genuineoriginal,

re: "You want to deny what Ignatius wrote?"

I have no reason to think that he didn't write that. But what I might think about his writing has nothing to do with my question in the OP. Unless, of course, he had provided an example of writing that shows a phrase being used which states a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights when the actual elapsed period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a portion of each one of the days and at least a portion of each one of the nights.



re: "Ignatius of Antioch...was taught by the Apostle John..."

Although not relevant to the OP, what proof is there of that?



re: "Do you have any proof that the timeline given by Ignatius was disputed by anyone from the same time period?"

Only that from the writers of Matthew 12:40 and 27:63 along with Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:21.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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rstrats said:
re: "Do you have any proof that the timeline given by Ignatius was disputed by anyone from the same time period?"

Only that from the writers of Matthew 12:40 and 27:63 along with Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:21.
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The writers of Matthew, Mark, and Luke do not dispute Ignatius' rendering of the timeline of the crucifixion and resurrection.

You still haven't provided any historical evidence from the first century to show that any justification for you to adopt an alternate reading of the verses that is different than the one Ignatius has provided.

Since the historical evidence shows that a Friday, Saturday, Sunday timeline was understood as the explanation of Matthew12:40, your seeking an alternate meaning is inexcusable.
 
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rstrats

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genuineoriginal,

re: "The writers of Matthew, Mark, and Luke do not dispute Ignatius' rendering of the timeline of the crucifixion and resurrection."


Well let's see; the writer of Matthew says that 3 night times would be involved with the Messiah's time in the "heart of the earth". However, Ignatius says that only 2 night times were involved. The writer of Mark says that the Messiah would rise after 3 days whereas Ignatius says it was no longer than half way through the 3rd day. And the writer of Luke says that the first day of the week was the "3rd day since these things were done". So assuming that the last of the "things" that were done was the crucifixion, it couldn't have taken place any later than the 5th day of the week. Ignatius on the other hand says that it occurred on the 6th day of the week.

But all this is an issue for another topic. For the purpose of this one, I'm only interested in what is requested in the OP.
 
jamie

jamie

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Gabriel said that in the context of a new covenant Messiah would cause sacrifices to cease in the midst of the week.

The fourth day of the week is Wednesday by current reckoning.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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rstrats said:
genuineoriginal,

re: "The writers of Matthew, Mark, and Luke do not dispute Ignatius' rendering of the timeline of the crucifixion and resurrection."


Well let's see; the writer of Matthew says that 3 night times would be involved with the Messiah's time in the "heart of the earth". However, Ignatius says that only 2 night times were involved. The writer of Mark says that the Messiah would rise after 3 days whereas Ignatius says it was no longer than half way through the 3rd day. And the writer of Luke says that the first day of the week was the "3rd day since these things were done". So assuming that the last of the "things" that were done was the crucifixion, it couldn't have taken place any later than the 5th day of the week. Ignatius on the other hand says that it occurred on the 6th day of the week.

But all this is an issue for another topic. For the purpose of this one, I'm only interested in what is requested in the OP.
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Ignatius is correct.

Your problem lies in your misunderstanding of the phrases used by the writers and translated into English.

Unless you can provide a reference to a historical document from the first or second century that refutes Ignatius' timeline, rather than mocking the Gospels references that Ignatius explains in his timeline, you are chasing the vanity of your own imagination.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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jamie said:
Gabriel said that in the context of a new covenant Messiah would cause sacrifices to cease in the midst of the week.

The fourth day of the week is Wednesday by current reckoning.
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Gabriel said that God would cause the sacrifices to cease in the midst of the last seven years of a 490 year period.
Jesus was crucified after a 3-1/2 year ministry, fulfilling that prophecy.
 
Caino

Caino

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rstrats said:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days, as well as a certain number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
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"Tear down this temple, and in 3 days I will raise it up again"

Friday, Saturday, Sunday

The significance of the term "3 days and 3 nights" came from the common belief that the soul lingered on in the grave for 3 days before departing. Perhaps this was because sometimes people who were thought to be dead were just unconscious with a low pulse and "returned from the dead" after a day or two. In the case of Jesus they made sure he was dead!

Jesus' body was dead, that's all that matters.....but true to form we quibble over the details.
 
R

rstrats

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Caino,

re: "Jesus' body was dead, that's all that matters....."

Maybe not. When asked by the scribes and Pharisees for a sign of his authority, the Messiah said that the only sign would be His time in the heart of the earth for three days AND three nights. If He didn't spend that time there, then He would not qualify. So why do you think that it is not important as to the length of time?
 
B

Ben Masada

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rstrats said:
Caino,

re: "Jesus' body was dead, that's all that matters....."

Maybe not. When asked by the scribes and Pharisees for a sign of his authority, the Messiah said that the only sign would be His time in the heart of the earth for three days AND three nights. If He didn't spend that time there, then He would not qualify. So why do you think that it is not important as to the length of time?
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Because, otherwise, it would constitute a hoax. Look at this:

The Hoax of the Three Days and Three Nights

On the third day or in three days, simply means after a short period of time. (Hosea 6:2)

Night or day for three days, as we have in the request of Esther to fast for her, means three days or three nights whether one follows the tradition to fast by day or by night. Those terms were used here because it was in the Diaspora where most Persians followed the tradition to fast by night. So, Esther's maids who were not Jewish, would share Esther's pain by showing their solidarity with their night fast. (Esther 4:16)

The case of Jonah dispenses all explanation because it happened during a vision. Therefore metaphorical language. That could be the entire three days and three nights, since everything is possible in a vision or dream. (Jonah 2:1)

Now, for the three days and three nights we are talking about, for Jesus to spend in the tomb, according to Matthew 12:40, the writer must have had a very poor insight about parables or metaphorical language to draw his prophecy in the terms of Jonah's allegory. If he had used the language of Esther or Hosea, he could have saved his prophecy from being a hoax, but now he must account for the whole three days and three nights or parts thereof.

We don't even need another gospel writer to contradict the one of Matthew. This contradicts himself as he declares that the next day, the one following the Day of Preparation, the chief Priests asked Pilate for a guard of soldiers to watch the tomb area for three days. (Mat. 27:62-64) The Jewish Preparation Day is always Friday, and the following day is the Sabbath.

Then, after that Sabbath, as the first day was dawning, the women went to see the sepulcher, there was an earthquake, an "angel" came down from Heaven, removed the stone, and the tomb was empty. Someone had cheated the angel by raising Jesus from there long before the "angel" could at least be an eyewitness to the resurrection.

Based on the Jewish method that a whole day or night can be accounted for any part of the day or night, we can consider the first day for those minutes that took Joseph of Arimathea to get Jesus into the tomb before sunset. The first night from sunset to sundown of Saturday, the second day from sundown Saturday to sunset that Saturday, and the second night from sunset that Saturday to the sundown of the first day. It was still dark when the women arrived at the tomb to find it empty. Therefore we are missing a whole day and a whole night to save Matthew 12:40 from becoming a prophetical hoax and a classical contradiction in the NT.
 
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rstrats

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Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb, may know of some writing as requested in the OP.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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rstrats said:
Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb, may know of some writing as requested in the OP.
Click to expand...

Ignatius of Antioch lived 35 CE to 117 CE, which was during the time that the Gospels were written and was taught by the Apostle John, who was an eyewitness to the events written in the Gospels and the writer of one of them.

_____
Ignatius Epistle to the Trallians Chapter 9
On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection.
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You have to show how Ignatius is mistaken after he was personally taught about the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Jesus by the writer of one of the four Gospels and eyewitness to the events.
 
B

Ben Masada

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rstrats said:
Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb, may know of some writing as requested in the OP.
Click to expand...

If you read Matthew 27:62 and 28:1, the guy who wrote the gospel of Matthew set the crucifixion of Jesus on the 6th day.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Caino said:
"Tear down this temple, and in 3 days I will raise it up again"

Friday, Saturday, Sunday

The significance of the term "3 days and 3 nights" came from the common belief that the soul lingered on in the grave for 3 days before departing. Perhaps this was because sometimes people who were thought to be dead were just unconscious with a low pulse and "returned from the dead" after a day or two. In the case of Jesus they made sure he was dead!

Jesus' body was dead, that's all that matters.....but true to form we quibble over the details.
Click to expand...



i think Lazaruz also rose after 3 days ?
 
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