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Matthew 12:40

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  • Matthew 12:40

    Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days, as well as a certain number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
    Last edited by rstrats; March 15, 2015, 05:09 AM.

  • #2
    I don't know about the first century but there is a Biblical example of something similar if not exactly the same kind of language:


    1 Samuel 30
    11 Now they found an Egyptian in the field and brought him to David, and gave him bread and he ate, and they provided him water to drink.

    12 They gave him a piece of fig cake and two clusters of raisins, and he ate; then his spirit revived. For he had not eaten bread or drunk water for three days and three nights.

    13 David said to him, “To whom do you belong? And where are you from?” And he said, “I am a young man of Egypt, a servant of an Amalekite; and my master left me behind when I fell sick three days ago.


    In this section three days and three nights count as three days and vice versa. Which means somewhere an afternoon, evening or a morning is being counted as a whole, right?
    Last edited by rainee; February 17, 2013, 06:51 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by rstrats View Post
      Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days, as well as a certain number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
      When the word "day" is used it could mean a part of a day or other meanings, however when day and night is used, it means 24 hour periods of time.
      "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

      "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

      Pro scripture = Protestant

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      • #4
        rainee,

        re: "I don't know about the first century..."

        That's ok because I also wrote: "or before".



        re: "... there is a Biblical example of something similar if not exactly the same kind of language...1 Samuel 30:11-13 "

        I'm afraid I don't see where those scriptures show a period of time that absolutely can't include at least a part of each one of the 3 days and at least a part of each one of the three nights.

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        • #5
          Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by rstrats View Post
            ... 6th day crucifixion folks ...


            Never heard of them


            do you have an infestation of them where you live?

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            • #7
              In the Jerusalem Talmud there is a quote by rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, who lived around A.D. 100: “A day and night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it” (from Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3, as quoted in Hoehner, 1974, pp. 248-249, bracketed comment in orig.). Azariah was referring to that a portion of a twenty-four hour period could be considered the same “as the whole of it.”
              Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
              Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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              • #8
                resurrected,

                re: "Never heard of them"

                I wonder how it's possible that you've never heard of anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week?



                re: "do you have an infestation of them where you live?"

                Yes, they are all over the place.

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                • #9
                  steko,

                  re: "Azariah was referring to that a portion of a twenty-four hour period could be considered the same 'as the whole of it.'”


                  As regards the Jewish practice of counting any part of a day as a whole day I would agree, but when "nights" is added to "days" to yield the phrase "x" days AND "x" nights it normally refers to a measurement of a consecutive time period where "day" refers to the light portion of a 24 hour period and "night" refers to the dark portion of a 24 hour period. No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation that the phrase "x" days AND "x" nightswas a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which had to mean something different than what the phrase means in English.. If you have such documentation, I would very much like to see it.

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                  • #10
                    Matt 20:6-14
                    6 "And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, 'Why have you been standing here idle all day?'
                    7 "They said to him, 'Because no one hired us.' He said to them, 'You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.'
                    8 "So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, 'Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.'
                    9 "And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.
                    10 "But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.
                    11 "And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,
                    12 "saying, 'These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.'
                    13 "But he answered one of them and said, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
                    14 'Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
                    (NKJ)

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                    • #11
                      Squeaky,

                      I don't see where your post shows a phrase stating a certain number of days, and or a certain number of nights where it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?

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                      • #12
                        rstrats, I'm curious as to why a Jewish idiom would make any difference one way or another? Where are you going with this, maybe I can help you.
                        Last edited by jamie; November 8, 2013, 04:07 PM.

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                        • #13
                          They will not give up there pagan holidays and traditions so matter how you slice it. they will say good friday to easter sunday... even tho at best thats 2 days.. At least they agree he didnt work on this sabbath

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rstrats View Post
                            Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days, as well as a certain number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
                            There are some people that are so hung up in counting the minutes that Jesus was dead and buried that they have Him dying in the afternoon of the fourth day of the week and rising in the afternoon of the seventh day of the week.
                            Learn to read what is written.

                            _____
                            The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                            ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                              There are some people that are so hung up in counting the minutes that Jesus was dead and buried that they have Him dying in the afternoon of the fourth day of the week and rising in the afternoon of the seventh day of the week.
                              The sign Jesus gave that he was the Messiah is that he would be buried for three days and three nights, not how long he would be dead.

                              Jesus died on Nisan 14, 30 CE. Just as he was placed in the tomb a Sabbath began.
                              This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud and laid him in a rock-hewn tomb where no one had ever yet been laid. It was the day of Preparation and the sabbath was beginning.
                              (Luke 23:52-54 RSV)

                              Jesus said he would be buried for three day and three nights. The Sabbath that began as he was placed in the tomb was the first annual Sabbath of the seven day Passover season.

                              Jesus was resurrected as the first day of the weeks leading to Pentecost began, which was the beginning of Sunday. Backtracking from his resurrection we have Saturday, Friday, and Thursday for the three days meaning Jesus died on Wednesday afternoon, Nisan 14, 30 CE.

                              Jesus was placed in his tomb as Thursday, Nisan 15 began. He was in the tomb the evening and the day of Thursday, the evening and the day of Friday, and the evening and the day of Saturday and at sunset on Saturday he was resurrected as Sunday began. He was raised on the first day of the week and seven weeks and one day later was the Pentecost of 30 CE recorded in Acts.

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