I know, I took three years of Koine in seminary.
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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I know, I took three years of Koine in seminary.
It's not from the new testament. I said I read the new testament in greek everyday, not every bit of greek ever written.
Translate this for me:
τίνα οὖν καρπὸν εἴχετε τότε; ἐφ’ οἷς νῦν ἐπαισχύνεσθε, τὸ γὰρ τέλος ἐκείνων θάνατος. τὰ γὰρ ὀψώνια τῆς ἁμαρτίας θάνατος, τὸ δὲ χάρισμα τοῦ θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰώνιος ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν.
I am a bible believing Christian, I got frustrated with "Dr" Steve's bad behavior. I believe in the trinity and never gave any indication that I didn't. The trinity is fully supportable by scripture. The false doctrine that God set up a place of torture where he sends sinners to be tortured forever when they die is not supportable by scripture. The church I attend has Eternal Conscious Torment as part of it's statement of faith, but since ECT is unbiblical, I prefer to believe the bible on this issue. I've discussed this with my pastor and he disagrees with me, but he is gracious about it, not like you guys.
I started this thread to have a friendly bible discussion about the topic, but it looks like that will not be possible with people like you. Since you can't refute Conditional Immortality, you gang up and attack and try to chase me away.
"We shall not all sleep but all will be changed"
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
koimaō
1) to cause to sleep, put to sleep
2) metaph.
a) to still, calm, quiet
b) to fall asleep, to sleep
c) to die
*
Mett.25.41
Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand "depart from Me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
So God DID prepare hell, He prepared it for the devil and his angels, the wicked fully train themselves up in the devil's way and do become just like him.
I don't know. They way they ganged up on me last night, it seems that they do. But I think they are fighting me because they really believe that the Bible supports ECT. I wish this discussion could just center around what the Bible says and not be a lot of fighting. I am a Christian too, and I don't think it is the Christian way to want your enemies to suffer. I don't know why they think God wants His enemies to suffer. Is there a scripture passage that support that idea?
I feel your pain
and
that is why I don't spend much time on this issue
but
what I like to do is ask them
if
they want eternal suffering to exist
and
they don't like that question at all
Jesus warned, so do we. Failure [through cowardice] to do so does not show love toward God or to poor sinners...it strengthens the sinner's hand.
Do women abort babies because they fear God?
Please Totton, the passage you quoted doesn't support the conclusion you have stated. It says God prepared the everlasting fire, not hell. Fire consumes what is put into it. They perish in the fire.
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Unfortunately, some will not come to repentance, so some will perish in the everlasting fire. The fire is everlasting, those who perish in the fire are not everlasting.
I know that you will not accept this, but it is the truth. I've backed up what I've said by scripture.
No, but if you want to warn me about eternal conscious torment in hell, please provide the scripture. I believe scripture, post clear scripture that supports ECT.
Yup!
another question to ask them is
does God want them to suffer eternally?
or
is there nothing God can do about it?
they don't like that one either
does God want them to suffer eternally?
or
is there nothing God can do about it?
they don't like that one either
Well, he sent his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life.
That answers the question "Does God want them to perish or can he do something about it?" But it doesn't really answer for those who believe in ECT, because this verse says "perish", not "suffer eternal conscious torment". I believe that God is truly good, and rescues us from death.
You slither around all scriptures given you, here is another one.
Mk.9.47
and if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out, it is better to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."
You have not answered to anyone's satisfaction why in a parable such as Lazarus and Dives Christ would teach a falsehood to establish a truth.
No. I was considering it, and praying. I got my answer.
The hell that is cast into the Lake of Fire: Rev. 20:14.
They didn't suffer torment when they were sacrificed?
What about Tartarus?
I didn't say they couldn't be destroyed. Destruction does not necessarily mean annihilation.
de·stroy [dih-stroi]verb (used with object)
1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
2. to put an end to; extinguish.
3. to kill; slay.
4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate.
5. to defeat completely.
So, while it can mean that, it does not always mean that.
Condemnation does not mean death.:nono:
con·dem·na·tion [kon-dem-ney-shuh
1. the act of condemning.
2. the state of being condemned.
3. strong censure; disapprobation; reproof.
4. a cause or reason for condemning.
5. U.S. Law. the seizure, as of property, for public use.
Why is the fire everlasting if those thrown into it become no more?
Matthew 18:8, 25:41
What do you think "forever and ever" and "everlasting" mean?
Even chaff, when burned, leaves something behind.
And even in those statements Jesus calls the fire "unquenchable." Why?
Matthew 3:12
Luke 3:17
You dwell a great deal on the subject of abortion, is it not the very devil itself? does the devil deserve his portion? are there not men and woman whose life is dedicated to his evil arts?
Do YOU see the condition of their souls? are you able to judge what punishment to aportion the murderer of somebody's darling child?
The doctrine of anihilism strengthens the hand of murder, rape, abortion etc.
Jesus made it clear that death is not anihilation when He affirmed on more than one occasion that people were dead while they yet lived. "let the dead bury their dead"
Hitler did not slaughter 5 million Jews, men women and children because he believed in eternal punishment.