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  • #76
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

    I made one. You're just not bright enough to understand it.
    You posted the common element about Paul seeing the light when the real issue was the different accounts of what he was told about his role.
    It's obvious that you're a liar.

    The point is that Paul made up his story in Acts 26 about being appointed on the road to Damascus as minister and a witness when his actual role was to bear the name and to suffer.

    And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him,Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
    And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing* a voice, but seeing no man.
    And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
    Acts 9:6-8

    But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the Children of Israel.
    For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
    Acts 9:15-16

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

      You posted the common element about Paul seeing the light when the real issue was the different accounts of what he was told about his role.
      It's obvious that you're a liar.

      The point is that Paul made up his story in Acts 26 about being appointed on the road to Damascus as minister and a witness when his actual role was to bear the name and to suffer.

      And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him,Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
      And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing* a voice, but seeing no man.
      And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
      Acts 9:6-8

      But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the Children of Israel.
      For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
      Acts 9:15-16
      And so those two verses are exclusive to each other? Because I see no indication of such.

      In fact, I see in scripture that Paul was, in fact, a minister, a witness, and that he bore the name of Christ and did indeed suffer.

      So what's the problem?

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: "I brought up the Quran because of my basis of interpretation, i.e. endorsement by the prophets."

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        ok why?
        Because if your basis for interpretation isn't sound you end up with confirmation bias.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        Scripture interprets scripture.
        No, people interpret scripture. Scripture is incapable of applying reason.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        ..and when that was written that was OT scripture
        In the context of the Bible the term scripture was used to refer to general writings as well as the writings of the prophets.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        and not of personal interpretation...
        Interpretations vary. Doctrinal interpretations can lead to a stiffnecked view of the world.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        ok now you clarify and yes of course hearers hear different things...is why scripture and not personal interpretation...
        Hearers hear different things when they are told different things. The people weren't told about the three days and nights in the tomb.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        or outside sources like Quran should be a basis
        ... like non-canonical texts? There's no common Christian canon.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        so we have signs 3 days? and repentance last hope for a lost generation
        ... and wisdom.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        among other things yes...and a perpetual one with His people...those that obey Him...His Way not some outside tradition...and overcome...
        Sharia means the way. The Quran endorses Isa(Jesus) as the Messiah.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        right...Yah does sanctify first the Sabbath at creation and then any of those that seek to keep it Holy...your generations He was addressing was a mixed multitude of both Native and Foreigner...is WHY the Sabbath alone of all commandments includes the Stranger
        And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
        Quran 2:65

        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        yes no false swears or as Yahushua affirmed best not to swear at all...
        He was talking about ineffective oaths, not oaths sworn by YHWH.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
          And so those two verses are exclusive to each other? Because I see no indication of such.
          If they were consistent with each other then you should be able to identify where Paul learned what his role was.

          Acts 9
          6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

          Acts 22
          10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

          Acts 26
          15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
          16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
          17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
          18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

          Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
          In fact, I see in scripture that Paul was, in fact, a minister, a witness, and that he bore the name of Christ and did indeed suffer.
          You're leaving out the part relating to the contradiction, i.e. whether or not Paul was appointed as a minister and witness.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Huckleberry View Post
            Sorry for the late response.
            no problem...suspense building...


            This letter was to gentiles free from the law by the sacrifice of Christ and thus not to be judged by those still under the law.
            awww man...you MAD? Odd that Paul has them reconciled in a body...I guess not truly assimilated to do as that body did...but encased in a special VIP cocoon of "law not for us"...but he continues Col 1:21 "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard." Odd to that Paul wishes to make sure they are circumcised. 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. WHY? I mean why even bother if they are to be a separate people...having differing works of repentance...

            Peter affirms Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." You gonna have me believe the Holy Spirit would NOT see TWO groups if one group ate cats bats rats and wombats and quit Sabbatismosing? and the other did NOT? I think even humans could see a distinction between those two groups...funny how Yahushua expected we understand that an unclean heart allow entrance of unclean foods vs. clean heart allows only clean foods...so here we have Peter talking about purified hearts and Paul talking about reconciling into ONE body two groups to be HOLY and BLAMELESS in His Sight...a pagan would judge them separate if they did not behave the same...but more on that later I am sure...

            And yet Paul taught the gentile converts that they were not under the law.
            you keep saying...like programming or something...

            Stephen, on the other hand, preached to those under the law.
            ummm...no...in fact your "Jesus changed the customs Moses gave to us" you know Israel at Sinai is EXACTLY what slandering Jews claimed Stephen was teaching...except Luke, as mentioned, called it a FALSE WITNESS as Stephen was NOT teaching Jesus changed anything for anybody...


            Again, to those under the law.
            NOT SO FAST buddy...Acts 15 was exactly about gentiles crowding synagogues to hear Moses preached every Sabbath as James concluded it should be...the 4 things immediately expected were already expected of goyim in the OT...and merely to establish social manners make clear what clean and unclean was...you really think Greeks were so uncouth and ill mannered they insisted on bringing Ham for Synagogue pot lucks? Of course not...they had to learn that even a lamb strangled or full of blood or offered to an image WAS MADE UNCLEAN...please don't tell me you think they released the goyim from NOT coveting or NOT stealing or NOT killing or NOT lying...oh wait! most of Christendom does exactly that...hmmmm...LOL

            Of course gentiles crowding into synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses preached as James concluded were expected to behave and keep the other laws...just like in the OT when once saved a mixed multitude of Native and FOREIGNERS were finally given a Law...for His people...because they were His people they were to keep His Sabbath Holy...Remember...and to the stranger in your gates...ONE LAW for Native and believing goyim alike...NO DISTINCTION...



            Paul was teaching that the Body of Christ (those not under the law) should not allow themselves to be judged under the law.
            close...let no one judge you in KEEPING the New Moons AND sabbaths...I mean these goyim had their own calendar...of course their countrymen would be asking "but that is sooo Jewish" they still do...and for about 4 centuries up until past Constantine this small group was considered a superstitious Jewish cult...by the Romans...LOL...why would Romans do that if nothing made the body of Christ look Jewish? Paul affirms this sect known as "the Way" was AS he worshipped according to the fathers..."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets" Acts 24:14 no distinction between those joined in "the Way" both Jew and Gentile...



            Indeed it was, by those still under the law.
            ok...so you an American citizen? You are under the constitution and feel it when you violate it and it is enforced...you are under the traffic law but mostly when you have to pay the ticket for forgetting that you were under the traffic law...just like you sitting there reading this...you are UNDER the Law of gravity...ESPECIALLY when you feel it enforced because you violated it...like when you hit the floor in disbelief that Sabbath is STILL for His BODY of which He is the Head...odd body if the Head has the body NOT do something it does...LOL..

            even biological law demands the grafted branch be in the same genius/family as the trunk to produce fruit at all...MORE similar not LESS...and yet here you and yours are claiming you don't need to produce fruit LIKE the trunk...or at all...LOL

            or are you above the law...like most kids have been seduced to feel...do what you want...government grace will clean up the damage and keep paying you...politicians too think themselves above the law because we forget to remind them they are NOT...odd grace apathy...

            so by under the law you mean Romans 6:14..."For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

            Sin does NOT have dominion over us...we have a new Master...Sin does not dominate us when we fail...we now have Grace...BECAUSE WE FAIL the still binding Law...and are no longer going to suffer sins eternal consequence...death...unconsciousness...void...as if we were never conceived...in Him we have life as if we were REBORN...oh wait is THAT why we WANT to keep His law?

            Law is an owner's manual to follow and NOT in order to earn the car but because it already is ours...so we WANT TO keep it running and maximize our use of it...

            Law is a description of what life is like where "I AM" is preparing for us...you know like before the FALL...no sin to point to...and yet the Sabbath...what grace...given to ALL creation before it was even needed...everything else was cursed...the animals, the humans, the ground...but NOT time...is why Sabbatismos remains you know for His people...living with Him...like Isaiah said New Moon to New Moon Sabbath to Sabbath ALL flesh will worship at His house of prayer for ALL people...neat eh?

            is why Paul in the very next verse continues to the Romans 6:15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Absolutely not!

            echoing what he told these believing goyim in chapter 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

            Which Law? The Son's NEW IMPROVED NOT FOR MY BODY Law or His PERFECT law as David called it...

            Again, the "are" in Colossians 2:16 references the sabbath keeping of those still under the law. Namely everyone being ministered to by every other apostle.
            why you make His kingdom an apartheid state? two classes of citizens those that do and those that don't? A house divided can not stand...no distinction remember? the wall between Jew and goyim destroyed...why you believe lying and slandering Jews who claim it was taught "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered"...don't believe Jewish fables Titus urged...

            the New Covenant has His Law not a New Law or His Son's "abridged edited revised updated for goyim" Law put into the circumcised Heart the inner Jew...of His people...His WAY...cuz that is what it is like where "I AM"...


            As to the original point of what exactly the "sabbath" refers to in Colossians 2:26, every original greek translation I can find shows it to be σαββάτων (sabbatōn), which are the weekly sabbaths.
            ok now we just got you to have faith that you are His people Israel...like it was in the OT...ONE law for both native and foreigner...as specified in the Sabbath commandment a perpetual sign of His obedient people...

            remember Matt 24:20 when Yahushua instructed prayers be said that in the future times of trouble NOT that they be saved or RAPTURED...NOT that the Temple be spared...but that the SABBATH would be KEPT...because "getting out of Dodge" is not really a Sabbath ya dig? Oh and winters...Yahushua also expected winter times to continue long after His DBR and ascension...

            now AD 70 was a time of trouble but many scholars insist Matt 24 also was about end of the world time of trouble...you know until when the jots and tittles will remain? Think not...He came to destroy...and changing or altering or giving two sets to two diverse peoples is exactly that...

            as in the Sabbath commandment itself makes clear it is for Israel both native and stranger with in thy gates...Yahushua affirms it was made for MAN...not just Jews despite their lying false witnessing to monopolize Sabbath...it remains for His people Heb 4:9 no distinctions...

            I mean what an odd body NOT doing what its Head does...

            Comment


            • #81

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              awww man...you MAD? Odd that Paul has them reconciled in a body...I guess not truly assimilated to do as that body did...but encased in a special VIP cocoon of "law not for us"...but he continues Col 1:21 "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard."
              Colossians 1: 13-14
              13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              Odd to that Paul wishes to make sure they are circumcised. 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. WHY? I mean why even bother if they are to be a separate people...having differing works of repentance...
              You illustrate one glaring difference right here with the difference between circumcision of the flesh and circumcision of the spirit. We are not required to circumcise today because we are not under the law, but grace.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              Peter affirms Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."
              8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
              9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
              10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              ummm...no...in fact your "Jesus changed the customs Moses gave to us" you know Israel at Sinai is EXACTLY what slandering Jews claimed Stephen was teaching...except Luke, as mentioned, called it a FALSE WITNESS as Stephen was NOT teaching Jesus changed anything for anybody...
              I don't see where you're disagreeing with me. Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course any accusation of teaching a change in the customs of Moses would be false witness.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              NOT SO FAST buddy...Acts 15 was exactly about gentiles crowding synagogues to hear Moses preached every Sabbath as James concluded it should be...
              Not so fast. Acts 15 was all about Paul teaching gentiles that circumcision (of the flesh;among other things) was not necessary and the other apostles, once they'd interviewed Paul and heard his words, agreeing.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              Of course gentiles crowding into synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses preached as James concluded were expected to behave and keep the other laws...just like in the OT when once saved a mixed multitude of Native and FOREIGNERS were finally given a Law...for His people...because they were His people they were to keep His Sabbath Holy...Remember...and to the stranger in your gates...ONE LAW for Native and believing goyim alike...NO DISTINCTION...
              You really should re-read Acts 15.


              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              close...let no one judge you in KEEPING the New Moons AND sabbaths...I mean these goyim had their own calendar...of course their countrymen would be asking "but that is sooo Jewish" they still do...
              You're really reaching, far beyond the plain language of the verse.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              and for about 4 centuries up until past Constantine this small group was considered a superstitious Jewish cult...by the Romans...LOL...why would Romans do that if nothing made the body of Christ look Jewish?
              For the same reason we Christians today haven't ripped the OT out of our bibles. To an alien we would look to be a strange Jewish sect.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              Paul affirms this sect known as "the Way" was AS he worshipped according to the fathers..."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets" Acts 24:14 no distinction between those joined in "the Way" both Jew and Gentile...
              I'd be curious what you think Felix was so afraid of later in that chapter. And why he thought keeping Paul bound was doing the Jews a favor.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              even biological law demands the grafted branch be in the same genius/family as the trunk to produce fruit at all...MORE similar not LESS...and yet here you and yours are claiming you don't need to produce fruit LIKE the trunk...or at all...LOL
              Our fruit is of love, not works.

              Colossians 5-6
              5
              because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth [a]fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth


              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              so by under the law you mean Romans 6:14..."For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

              Sin does NOT have dominion over us...we have a new Master...Sin does not dominate us when we fail...we now have Grace...BECAUSE WE FAIL the still binding Law...and are no longer going to suffer sins eternal consequence...death...unconsciousness...void...as if we were never conceived...in Him we have life as if we were REBORN...oh wait is THAT why we WANT to keep His law?
              So you keep saying, but even Romans 6:14 stands contrary.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              Law is an owner's manual to follow and NOT in order to earn the car but because it already is ours...so we WANT TO keep it running and maximize our use of it...
              I'll agree that the law has much to teach us, but we are not under the law as a means to righteousness. Righteousness is imputed to us through Christ's sacrifice.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              is why Paul in the very next verse continues to the Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Absolutely not!
              Romans 6:1-14
              1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
              2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
              3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
              4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
              5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
              6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
              7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
              8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
              9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
              10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
              11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
              12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
              13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
              14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              echoing what he told these believing goyim in chapter 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

              Which Law? The Son's NEW IMPROVED NOT FOR MY BODY Law or His PERFECT law as David called it...

              why you make His kingdom an apartheid state? two classes of citizens those that do and those that don't? A house divided can not stand...no distinction remember? the wall between Jew and goyim destroyed...why you believe lying and slandering Jews who claim it was taught "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered"...don't believe Jewish fables Titus urged...
              Again, Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course he would teach the law and not that the customs of Moses be changed.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              the New Covenant has His Law not a New Law or His Son's "abridged edited revised updated for goyim" Law put into the circumcised Heart the inner Jew...of His people...His WAY...cuz that is what it is like where "I AM"...

              ok now we just got you to have faith that you are His people Israel...like it was in the OT...ONE law for both native and foreigner...as specified in the Sabbath commandment a perpetual sign of His obedient people...
              A perpetual sign for both the native and the foreigner living inside Israel. This isn't even relevant to our discussion.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              remember Matt 24:20 when Yahushua instructed prayers be said that in the future times of trouble NOT that they be saved or RAPTURED...NOT that the Temple be spared...but that the SABBATH would be KEPT...because "getting out of Dodge" is not really a Sabbath ya dig? Oh and winters...Yahushua also expected winter times to continue long after His DBR and ascension...
              We are not the elect. We are Christians, of the Body of Christ.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              now AD 70 was a time of trouble but many scholars insist Matt 24 also was about end of the world time of trouble...you know until when the jots and tittles will remain? Think not...He came to destroy...and changing or altering or giving two sets to two diverse peoples is exactly that...

              as in the Sabbath commandment itself makes clear it is for Israel both native and stranger with in thy gates...Yahushua affirms it was made for MAN...not just Jews despite their lying false witnessing to monopolize Sabbath...it remains for His people Heb 4:9 no distinctions...
              Hebrews 4:11-13
              11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

              This should cause you to tremble, having put yourself under the law.

              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              mean what an odd body NOT doing what its Head does...
              How many times did Christ supposedly violate the sabbath?
              Last edited by Huckleberry; June 30th, 2020, 07:16 PM.
              God is not a thing in the world.

              If history has taught us anything, it's that science has always been wrong.

              I thank God for shotguns.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                If they were consistent with each other then you should be able to identify where Paul learned what his role was.
                Again... Paul's "role" was not defined fully and completely in any singular event. It was given to Paul over time.

                You are creating a "problem" where none exists.
                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

                  You posted the common element about Paul seeing the light when the real issue was the different accounts of what he was told about his role.
                  It's obvious that you're a liar.
                  You are a false accuser and a liar. You are not reading the post that I QUOTED which had nothing to do with Paul seeing the light.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    Paul's "role" was not defined fully and completely in any singular event. It was given to Paul over time.
                    The context was of Acts 9, 22, and 26. Whatever happened after Paul told his story to King Agrippa in Acts 26 is irrelevant. In Acts 26 Paul says that he was appointed as a minister and a witness on the road to Damascus, but earlier in Acts 22 he say that he was to be told all things that he was appointed to do at a later time.

                    Acts 22
                    10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

                    Acts 26
                    15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
                    16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
                    17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
                    18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                      You are a false accuser and a liar. You are not reading the post that I QUOTED which had nothing to do with Paul seeing the light.
                      You're projecting again. The facts are on my side: you posted the wrong text and then accused me of lying when I pointed it out.
                      You text was wrong because the issue was where Paul learned of his role, not whether on not something happened when Paul was on the road to Damascus.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Huckleberry View Post

                        Colossians 1: 13-14
                        13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
                        yes HalleluYah we are delivered INTO A KINGDOM...with the forgiveness of sins...which ones? I mean remove the Law and there is no sin...we certainly are delivered...NOW WHAT? How we live? Just do whatever? As you were? As the world does...no works befitting repentance?...the Body of Christ gets a free pass no law do what thou whilst...?

                        Everybody else in this kingdom of the Son...WANTS to keep its laws grateful as all get out...WANTING TO BE MORE LIKE HIM less like their former selves and the world...but NOT the BOC they be above it all or something...do whatever whenever...kinda just like Lucifer who rebelled against the order and heirarchy...”no thanks NOT FOR ME”

                        Hey...I know...since according to you and yours the Law IS changeable...why NOT change it before He had to DIE...you know...just change it...do away with it...claim NOT FOR MY SON or something...

                        You illustrate one glaring difference right here with the difference between circumcision of the flesh and circumcision of the spirit. We are not required to circumcise today because we are not under the law, but grace.
                        firstly we are to be circumcised...of the heart...and B) OT NEVER taught it was salvific...how could something done to you by your parents on the 8th day of your life save you? Is why I reject infant baptism as salvific...they didnt choose to do it...duh...what about the ladies...they not saved? No circumcision for them...you think they have grace because it is NOT for them? They dont need to keep the other laws?

                        Why do we need grace is the Law is not for you? You have nothing to point out sin...why Grace? Just one time that first time and then you’re good eh? No need to still overcome...remain faithful to WHAT? Persevere survive persecution WHAT persecution? you are just like the world...love is all you need...do what thou whilst...no need to represent Him His Way...

                        8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
                        9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
                        10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
                        LOL...awww poor baby I have seen body modifications and tattoos that are more painful than circumcision...LOL...but that is not what is meant with UNABLE TO BEAR...

                        The Judaizers stormed into town demanding full grown goyim men be circumcised according to the custom of Moses...do you recall what the custom of Moses was regarding circumcision? That a male infant 8 days old was circumcised by his parents WITHOUT having to decide if he should BEAR pain or not...get it? Yahushua Himself called out the hypocritical pharisees TWICE for giving others burdens to bear they themselves never lifted...Matt 23:4 Luke 11:46 they expected of others what they did not do...decide on circumcision as it was DONE TO THEM AT 8 DAYS OLD...of course they were NOT able to bear as it was done TO them...and of course these goyim ADULT men could not perform the custom of MOSES...

                        Besides circumcision was NEVER expected of the strangers within thy gates...Sabbath YES...but not circumcision...the goyim were SAVED from egypt just like the NATIVE...

                        Oh and purified of heart meant exactly they were circumcised of heart and the Holy Spirit saw NO DISTINCTION...as all the other stuff was the SAME TOO...they didnt meet on Sundays or eat HAM...or claim NOT FOR ME...

                        We are NOT under the Law because it was removed we are NOT under the LAW because of GRACE if we fail...and IN HIM our LOVE JUST LIKE HIS actually FULFILLS the Law...and by fulfill I mean as in keeps the law not destroys it...as in fulfills the recipe does not destroy the recipe...

                        BUT You claim you are not under the Law because it was removed or abolished or NOT FOR YOU...so what points out your need for Grace...the continued need of His working in you? To the end?


                        I don't see where you're disagreeing with me.
                        well again you think saved we dont have a law...I say saved we WANT the Law...you claim we keep the Law to get saved...we know it was faith in what He did for us that makes us grateful to be more Like Him...not our former selves or the world...

                        Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course any accusation of teaching a change in the customs of Moses would be false witness.
                        welll...Stephen did fail to mention that the BOC will NOT NEED to keep it...that is a HUGE change...as even in the OT...well you know strangers got the Sabbath...I mean did NOBODY sin prior SINAI? They didnt get the Law right? LOL the IRONY that specifically the Sabbath was given BEFORE the Jews were even around...BEFORE SIN even...WOW...in fact with the Manna the Sabbath was kept BEFORE SINAI and by goyim within their gates...Yahushua confirmed it was for MAN...not just Jews...no other commandment was singled out that way...NO killing was for man...NO stealing was for man...

                        And yet most ALL nations had those very laws...their gods must be proud...ours however added 4 more...I am Yah...make no images nor worship those made...dont take my name in vain...oh and the SABBATH...while all other nations had the other 6 ONLY ONE...HIS PEOPLE...had the first 4...but of course...NOT FOR ME...even knowing what He did for you...created everything in six days for you rested that you might...sent His Son to die so you didnt have too...but “nawww I am good...thanks but no thanks...not for me...what’s that? Oh sure I am grateful just doing my own thing though...thanks again”...the arrogance...seeking to change both times and Law...just wow...

                        What else is NOT FOR YOU...marriage...is that Jewish was instituted same time as Sabbath...how about woman...made for man...reject her too? LOL

                        You EXACTLY teach Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered to the mixed multitude at Sinai...your claim it is NOT FOR YOU is EXACTLY disproven in the VERY SABBATH COMMANDMENT...stranger got it even the animals just not the wife...LOL sabbath keepers joke...wife not listed in Ex


                        Not so fast. Acts 15 was all about Paul teaching gentiles that circumcision (of the flesh;among other things) was not necessary and the other apostles, once they'd interviewed Paul and heard his words, agreeing.
                        agreeing to what? 4 immediate things to fellowship with Jews crowding into synagogues with them to hear Moses preached every Sabbath as James conclude would continue..those 4 things were NOT about getting saved...or do you really think the BOC was not expected to keep more than 4 things...LOL..oh wait you do...as the BOC didnt need to keep the Law...so the kingdom is divided...


                        You really should re-read Act 15.
                        The part James concluded that Moses was going to continue to be read to BOC every Sabbath?



                        You're really reaching, far beyond the plain language of the verse.
                        plain language tells me that Paul reminds them of what was done for them since they were dead in their trespasses and the uncircumcision of their heart He has made alive...HOW GRATEFUL they must of been that One resurrected would allow them the same...you know cuz He wiped away the debt taking it out of the way...nailed their bill to the cross...of course they wanted to be more like Him His way...and joined the Way...thus kept the New Moons and Sabbaths of the nation of Israel...and not their own...so don’t LOSE your reward or lose grip to the Head from whom the BODY is knit together to DO WHAT IT WANTS? LOL certainly NOT we establish His Law...not our own Lawlessness...


                        For the same reason we Christians today haven't ripped the OT out of our bibles. To an alien we would look to be a strange Jewish sect.
                        uh? NO WAY...now you think aliens are blind...even the Calendar has been altered to divorce all things Jewish from Christendom...that wall that was supposed to be abolished and the two become one has been LITERALLY rebuilt...Jews and Christians now even have their SEPERATE paths into the kingdom...thanks to the MAD zionists...


                        I'd be curious what you think Felix was so afraid of later in that chapter.
                        Awesome question...It says right in the text...verse 22 Felix knew “the Way” its resurrected Hero and verse 24 when Paul spoke to him concerning the faith of Christ...NOW PAY ATTENTION...verse 25 Paul reasoned about righteousness SELF CONTROL and the JUDGEMENT to come...that is why Felix was afraid...NOT because Paul taught the Law was done away with or changed or Love alone is enough or Grace alone cuz you are no longer under the Law...oh yeah...that’s right...Paul DID NOT teach the Law was NOT for MARCUS ANTONIO FELIX of ROME...but that there was a judgement day coming...even for Felix...IS WHY He was afraid...Paul should have made him MAD...not afraid...LOL

                        And why he thought keeping Paul bound was doing the Jews a favor.
                        He held Paul hoping to get money...verse 26

                        Our fruit is of love, not works.

                        Colossians 5-6
                        5
                        because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth [a]fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth
                        a correcting love a seperating love a harvesting love FROM the world...a love NOT OF this world but of a kingdom also NOT of this world...a Lawful love...His character of Law...that where He is you might be also...a love on earth as it is in heaven...a Love JUST AS He loved us...and never did He love us with Sunday Ham dinners...ya dig?



                        So you keep saying, but even Romans 6:14 stands contrary.
                        contrary to what? Grace abolishes the Law? We might now sin? See IMMEDIATELY Paul answers what you claim...verse 15 CERTAINLY NOT shall we sin...and 16 we are SLAVES to OBEY not free to sin...slaves to obedience to WHAT? To righteousness! You know the Law which points out when we fail...but Grace keeps us from being under a law of sin and death...just like the traffic law becomes a ministry of death to my wallet ONLY when I break the Law...but if I was a foreign diplomat I would have the grace of having my fines paid...still under the law whenever I broke it...but well someone else pays...it is not like the traffic laws are NOT FOR ME...just someone else paid the bills...

                        I'll agree that the law has much to teach us, but we are not under the law as a means to righteousness. Righteousness is imputed to us through Christ's sacrifice.
                        BINGO and CORRECT and HALLELUYAH and it being imputed we NOW KEEP THE LAW...gratitude for having been saved and NOT to be saved...

                        and that work to continue to sanctify us and make us still more righteous MORE LIKE HIM...is a work HE does in us...until the end...is why we NEED GRACE STILL until the end...as even Paul knew we could lose it Peter warns of false teachers causing us to lose it too...



                        Romans 6:1-14
                        1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
                        2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
                        3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
                        4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
                        5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
                        6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
                        7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
                        8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
                        9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
                        10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
                        11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
                        12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
                        13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
                        14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.[/quote] and AGAIN YOU IGNORE VERSE 15 What then Shall we sin? Verse 16 slaves to obey...not free of law verse 17 though slaves you obeyed verse 18 having been SET FREE FROM SIN (not the LAW) you became slaves to righteousness...

                        Verse 23...the wages of sin is death...but but but waaaaite we are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW TO POINT OUT OUR SIN...

                        Again, Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course he would teach the law and not that the customs of Moses be changed.
                        all have sinned not just jews...there are NOT two classes of citizens in His not of this world kingdom of Israel...


                        A perpetual sign for both the native and the foreigner living inside Israel. This isn't even relevant to our discussion.
                        for you as you reject the adoption and grafting into Israel...you rebuild the wall that seperates Jew from goyim...you seperate IN HIM the jew and gentile...you desire to remain alien and far off...now that Law Promise is NOT FOR YOU...you reject the Sabbath made before Israel but given to it as a sign of His people...a day off...as if it was made for Jews alone...that’s what they got you to believe...


                        We are not the elect. We are Christians, of the Body of Christ.
                        So now Jews have their own way...Believing Jews have theirs...and the BOC have still a third...and here I thought the way was narrow...

                        Sabbath was made for man...not just jews...or believing jews...




                        Hebrews 4:11-13
                        11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

                        This should cause you to tremble, having put yourself under the law.
                        Not at all...Sabbath was the Grace given man prior his need of it...before the fall...entering that rest as Yah did is what keeps me closer to Him less like the rest of the world...or my former self...accepting that Grace of Sabbath rest I know we have a great High Priest that if we hold fast to our confession we can come boldly to the throne of Grace...obtain mercy and grace...as we worship Him the Way which pleases Him...with Whom we made a perpetual sign both native and foreigner alike...in His Holy Sabbath...

                        How many times did Christ supposedly violate the sabbath?
                        you mean loosen if from man’s traditions? A few...but let’s play your “don’t know it in the greek” game...let’s pretend He did break it...

                        Just because Yah commanded Israel to kill...did that abrogate the don’t kill law? Where they allowed to kill now?

                        HOw about just because Yah commanded them to make a bronze serpent did that abolish the dont make image worship it Law? So they could go and make images and worship them?

                        How about when He instructed Hosea to marry the prostitute...did that allow Israel to go commit adultery?

                        It doesn’t make sense even if it were true...

                        Why would Yahushua abolish for anyone the very thing that authorizes Him as creator Lord...I am the Lord of the Sabbath until I abolish it not apply it to goyim...

                        I mean doesnt even Lord of London mean something to those not in London? Why would he destroy London...or Lord of the Rings...his rings...absurd...

                        Where He is the Law is kept...do you or do you not want to be restored to Him...it is that simple...as

                        And His people will be there as it was before sin was ever revealed..remade in His image doing as He does...

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                          Whether it's questionable to Christendom or not isn't important.
                          If you are not a Christian? Otherwise it is, since the rest of us are into body life. We don't take our Reformation lightly. We don't all want to be separate entities when scripture says those in Christ belong to each other. At that point, we want to ensure we know who is, and who is not, as well as what is, and what is not. Thus, whether it is important to you or not, is actually of less consequence than it being, not only 'questionable,' but rejected as acceptable (heresy).
                          Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
                          No, people interpret scripture. Scripture is incapable of applying reason.
                          If above means you aren't Christian because 'it isn't important what Christendom views are heresy, then I can see why you'd think this was true. It isn't. 1 Corinthians 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

                          “What no eye has seen,
                          what no ear has heard,
                          and what no human mind has conceived”[b]
                          the things God has prepared for those who love him—

                          10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

                          The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

                          There is also a consistency to the scriptures, coming from God, that in fact do cause one to think about them in terms of further teaching. I don't agree with Clefty in this thread, but I do on this point, because it is specifically why I believe the Sabbath is found, and kept, through Jesus Christ, thus scripture concerning it, is indeed understood (interpreted) by further passages, as instructions with cohesion from God.

                          My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                          Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                          Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                          Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                          No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                          Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                          ? Yep

                          Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                          ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                          Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by clefty View Post
                            LOL...awww poor baby ...LOL...

                            ...LOL sabbath keepers joke... 4 things...LOL..oh wait .... DO WHAT IT WANTS? LOL



                            ...but let’s play your “don’t know ... greek” game...
                            ...
                            Not sure if you are aware that you do it as often as you do. There is no way to take such 'seriously' and discussion of God should be done with every sense of reverence for Him and His word.

                            We'll continue to disagree, of course, regarding Sabbath being an observation of a physical day, vs. a rest and indulgence in God. Through Christ, the Sabbath (communion with God) is permanent. In some ways, I see your "LOL's" and "Other" as an offense to how I've come to understand what the Sabbath actually is: Communion with God, enabled permanently, by the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

                            This is a passing comment and observation. It isn't given for a long-winded response, just something for you to mull over or dismiss out of hand in the spirit of its intent. You've asked a couple of questions and this gave me an opportunity to address it for a moment.
                            My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                            Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                            Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                            Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                            No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                            Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                            ? Yep

                            Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                            ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                            Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

                              The context was of Acts 9, 22, and 26. Whatever happened after Paul told his story to King Agrippa in Acts 26 is irrelevant. In Acts 26 Paul says that he was appointed as a minister and a witness on the road to Damascus, but earlier in Acts 22 he say that he was to be told all things that he was appointed to do at a later time.

                              Acts 22
                              10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

                              Acts 26
                              15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
                              16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
                              17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
                              18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
                              If you had paid attention when reading the Bible, and particularly the New Testament, you'd realize that "all things" rarely, if ever, means literally "all things."

                              But that, I guess, assumes you've actually read the entirety of the NT, let alone the whole Bible... Have you?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                                If you had paid attention when reading the Bible, and particularly the New Testament, you'd realize that "all things" rarely, if ever, means literally "all things."
                                Especially when the phrase is made from whole cloth.

                                Acts 9
                                6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

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