Lon
Well-known member
Ungodly pride and self-centered justification for the 'Clefty Show.' Bye Clefty. Sciptures, which I've given (or anybody, doesn't matter who) prove out. They are enough. Read them or ignore them. ▲
THE LORDS DAY CONTROVERSY?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
not enough to try and belittle and insult me but now even drag my family into this?
yes yes even the pagans love each other...
which until you show where He rid us of the Sabbath you only follow man’s tradition...He instead expected Sabbath to continue Matt 24:20
Paul was writing to Timothy about OT scripture and was NOT writing about Peter’s NT letters as that canon had not been established yet. Peter wrote after Paul...scholars even consider both these books as even later and not authored by them...
revealing...thanks?
wow...how about no more shedding of blood? Circumcision or sacrifices...oh and stoning for infractions let His be the vengeance
I think the scope is since we are saved please Him...the precept is how to do that...follow Him His way...His faith
So we agree on scope and disagree on the precept...I wish to keep the 10 you claim it was abolished
right...Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 completely followed as LOVE it would indeed keep the Law...especially since it was understood to love Yah one kept the Sabbath as true worship and in gratitude for creation and salvation from Egypt...and even give health to rest yourself and your neighbors/employees...
what does that have to do with having itching ears following jewish fables like Jesus changed the customs of Moses? Act 6:13-14
really? And becoming a man you are no longer mind your brother? Keep him from stumbling? Correct rebuke reproof...
here’s a link:
http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
A study of Acts full of scripture...
And now back to the message...
nope you claim it says abolished the Law when it is the enmity jews had of gentiles found in ordinances they had constructed like that middle wall He tore down to make ONE NEW MAN from the two...
oh my...
quality not quantity...think knock out vs blocked jabs...lol
yup added to the Word...and you wish to subtract...the Law even...
ok but even with the Eve thingy you missed why I used scripture...guess I should have cited it Gen 3:3 vs Gen 2:17 see how she added? Dont do that.
.
The bronze serpent became an idol only after the Spirit left it...when they dismissed the Law of “no image worship”...oh and given to Israel not just jews...
Your whole “Becoming a jew” is a jest at best at worst anti semitic? So following the “don't steal” is also recommitting to becoming a jew? How about “don't lie”...you scared of being jewish?
Paul reminds us it is the Circumcision of the Heart...the spiritual “inner jew” which is regenerated by Him into FOLLOWING HIM HIS WAY
Is marriage also jewish as it is found in the OT around the time of Sabbath institution actually...
It’s your refusal to accept that in the OT it was NEVER “keep the Law in order to be saved” but “you ARE saved keep the law”
Love this way because HE first loved you THIS WAY...
right...many things I have posted appear to you...even before you actually read
You just assume and then seek to retort...
but did not change the rules of the game...as JV and VARSITY actually play the same game
Well then say that...He did not abolish “dont commit adultery” with His it begins inwardly first
Nor did he abolish “do not commit adultery” with His it begins inwardly first...
You know the circumcised heart the inner jew the spiritual realm...
So when Pharisees accused Him of breaking their rules for to protect the Sabbath’s inward rest He revealed they were too zealous and Sabbath is a love of the game NOT squabbling over rules not even in the original rulebook authored by the Lord of the Sabbath
And yet you insist at best you keep Sabbath your own way...at worst it was abolished...
AND AGAIN
SABBATH IS NOT TO SAVE BUT BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED...
A reminder we are created by Him and freed BY HIM from the consequences of sin and the enmity of the jews...
we are now citizens of the commonwealth of Israel...HIS PEOPLE is why Heb 4:9...there got it?
That marriage is still binding and not abolished...yes that is true...as are the shadows which point to the good things still to come...Col 2:17...
His Law is called eternal and perfect for a reason...
You quoted scripture but then claim otherwise...
not big enough to hold what you carry around...jewish fables about Jesus changing the customs Moses delivered...
paused for word from our sponsors “Lon’s gratifications”...now we resume the program
Duh...you are saved by Him is why you WANT to keep it...
Law worked just fine...pointed out sin and the NEED OF HIM...
You would blame the map cuz you’re lost...or blame the rule book because your team lost...LOL
BINGO...an unbeliever can NOT keep the Law as ALL HAVE SINNED...and IN HIM a believer can...
But again its a rule book you still have to play the game...hopefully WANT to...
ok we pause the program of “THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL ROM 7:14” for yet another commercial break from our sponsor “Lon’s gratifications”
right Law remains...to teach AS ALWAYS of the Spiritual realm...blood of bulls could not remove sin Heb 10:4 that was His job...blood of bulls what a teaching aid about HIM
LOL...exactly BINGO...they can claim they are spiritual or even SPIRIT LED but their fruits ARE NOT HIS...
exactly baptism is a one time symbol only...and must be voluntary...NOT FORCED...is why we dont infant baptize or CIRCUMCISE as that alone DOES NOT SAVE...even Muslims circumcise THEY ARE NOT SAVED...only IN HIM...and then FOLLOWING HIM AS HE LIVED AND LOVED
“and yet Sabbath was sweet sweet grace given even BEFORE the need of rest...before the curse of sin...its sweat inducing WORK...six daze...” you skipped this because?
But yup...SUCH GRACE...His works given for us to do before we were born...
yes He made it HOLY so until you show me where He made it UNHOLY it is kept by all who are indwelled with Him...as works befitting repentance...six days work seventh day rest...
Not fleshy SPIRITUAL Rom 7:14 kept by inner jews...lol
HalleluYah...and with David sums it up Psalms 119:174 “I long for your salvation (Yahushua) Yah and your law gives me delight” see? Faith first...salvation first...then the law...wanna play? Here is how...
and even Paul Rom 7:22 I delight in the Law of Yah...
but you said the Law was abolished...
so which game is loved for its NOT having rules...just make it up as you go along...2020 years later and the bullies are still running the playground with
I have seen pros do low hurdles to keep in shape...not to become pro of course not...lol
So tell me...once all trained up you quit? Or maybe play by other rules?
You say move further in Christ...but AWAY from His Father’s will? From what He exemplified we do?
I hammered away with Sabbath keeping? LOL...THAT IS THIS THREAD TITLE
I sincerely hope that even in your lovey dovey 600 student college if someone said they loved Jesus but kept stealing every day someone would address it...or if he was committing adultery...to that person I am sure it would feel like “the whole school is hammering away at me” boo hoo
so first you go off the ditch into “no more law” and now you oversteer into “exceed the law” LOL
you keep bringing it up...hope the Mrs agrees
But yes see the Law remains and was restored...by the Lord of the Sabbath...the One Who gave it...
right no more need for shedding of blood now that we have His blood for the Wrath to pass over...
ONLY IF THEY COPY HIM...LOVE AS HE DID...including giving their employees Sabbath days...
oh my
DO as HE DID
WRONG what they listed as doing was not what was expected...He called what they were doing as LAWLESSNESS...NOT His Father’s will...DO THAT
and he demonstrated his faith by rebuking a mocker, accepting his guilt, requesting forgiveness and to be with Him in His kingdom...that thief did more than a lot of Christians I know to demonstrate his faith
Now tell me something...suppose the thief would have lived...come down off the cross? You really expect me to accept that according to you he would NOT KEEP THE LAW? Go back to stealing? You know cuz Law being abolished...or he be under grace not the Law...
work six daze rest the seventh...as was His CUSTOM go to the synagogues LOL tell them about Lord of the Sabbath Who did NOT change the customs Moses delivered...walk about with your disciples, heal, read Isaiah et al, pray
whatever you really think would KEEP IT HOLY...you a holy temple now learning holy show times...go sin no more be more LIkE Him...run the race earn the prize...
Well DONE good faithful servant
2 Timothy 4:4 itching ears from their own desires is confirming Dan 7:25 that both times and Law will be changed...
And rather than the Sabbatismos of Heb 4:9 people will claim a JesusRest every day...as if He came to contradict His Fathers Will...
now who is fleshy carnal minded offer the sacrifices of your lips...as it was during the time between temples...CERTAINLY DO NOT support Zionists their rebuilding another temple to do so...
trying to get better at this game I love...thanks
LOL you really think the crowding gentiles were allowed to steal lie kill covet worship images another god sunday observance use another name dishonor parents as long as they didnt practice sexual immorality offer food to idols eat meat strangled or full of blood?
Hmmm...well certainly not in the first century...perhaps afterwards as is evident...but James concluded the matter then that they would continue to hear Moses EVERY SABBATH Act 15:21
asked and answered...
Choose ye this day Whom ye will serve...and how...See Romans 6:16
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Sorry double post.
Here’s to make better use of it?
http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
This study challenges the understanding that the early ekklesia did away with the Law.
Here is an example:
Why are the earliest forms of Christian art only found to be of the late 2nd and early 3rd centuries?
If the Law had been done away with surely there would be earlier ikons even actual relics or even a portrait
Our Savior was all about our comfort solace and encouragement...image the power of an ikon rendered of Him...what grace and joy to behold yes?
I mean He could have left a portrait since the Law was done away with no?
And there were Greek/Roman artisans enough to make His face into marble or fresco...
the irony that an earliest archeological fragment is of a plague from the actual literal wall which separated the goyim from jews
that dividing wall He tore down as in Him there is neither Jew or gentile
that emnity found in ordinances which was abolished making from Jew and gentile a new man
https://leonmauldin.blog/2010/04/01/...e-inscription/
Here’s to make better use of it?
http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
This study challenges the understanding that the early ekklesia did away with the Law.
Here is an example:
Why are the earliest forms of Christian art only found to be of the late 2nd and early 3rd centuries?
If the Law had been done away with surely there would be earlier ikons even actual relics or even a portrait
Our Savior was all about our comfort solace and encouragement...image the power of an ikon rendered of Him...what grace and joy to behold yes?
I mean He could have left a portrait since the Law was done away with no?
And there were Greek/Roman artisans enough to make His face into marble or fresco...
the irony that an earliest archeological fragment is of a plague from the actual literal wall which separated the goyim from jews
that dividing wall He tore down as in Him there is neither Jew or gentile
that emnity found in ordinances which was abolished making from Jew and gentile a new man
https://leonmauldin.blog/2010/04/01/...e-inscription/
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awwww come on man...you gonna take your ball and go home now?
don't be so sore...
See? I like to play tennis and when there is no umpire or line judges we usually play disputed points over...cool?
Usually its about shots made...but rules are FUNdemental... as is fair play...
On a beautiful day like today though I won't ask if you wanna go KEEP SOME RULES this afternoon,
but I might ask if you wanna play tennis... I mean, depends how you play...ya dig?
Gotta love da game bro...enough to keep dem rulez... as they say: hate da playa not da game...LOL
oh my...Pharisees always attacking the minority view...even called Him a troublemaker too for affirming His Sabbath...
and you elsewhere:
"I'm convinced you will get this. A Saturday worshipper?
:nono:
That person is bull-headed and cannot be bothered with basic math (sadly)
"LOL..you really do sound sore...
It’s understandable but shake it off...leave it on the field
oh BTW don't forget the Celts had their own calendar too...but we'll address that later in Galatians...
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yup...still comes across as sore...or inquistorial
I wonder if anyone here at TOL really doesn't read their bibles or doesn't agree that it is important.
Are we to pretend to be surprised at this sizable chunk of Galatians posted with highlights as not having seen it before?
Are you some great prophet pope or oracle to bring down the word from the cloud? Ha
I do hope you really don’t think this and are just lashing out at the opposing opinion.
Just because one doesn’t agree with you does not mean they have never read the Bible or don’t think it important.
You sound like a kid who suddenly hates the game or claims the other kids don’t know anything...for some reason...
Before we begin... please humor me with some things about this letter.
First-that this letter to the Galatians was written prior the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 some think it might have verified the need for a council at all. It was certainly written well before Paul's trials.
Now might I ask if Paul had written that the Law was 1) done away with or 2) changed at the cross or 3) not for gentiles...could he have argued:
Acts 24:12-16 My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Not only once but at all his trials Paul claimed innocence.
Would the opposing side which claimed he was a troublemaker worthy of death NOT have this letter he wrote as EXHIBIT A?
Paul however was spared as no charges were proven and he was turned over and over to a higher court maintaining his innocence until the end of the book of Acts under house arrest.
How could that be if this letter to the Galatians so clearly states the Law was destroyed?
Second item:
The letter was written to the Galatians an ancient conquering tribal people from Gaul also known as Celtics.
They had their own language not just spoken but written with their letters...
They had their own coinage
They had their own laws
They had their own religion with priests
They had their own CALENDAR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
This last issue will be important to remember as we dive into this letter.
Please also understand that as an ancient polytheistic people they "collected" many gods and goddesses throughout their history with subsequent ritualist pagan rites and traditions with a priestly class as well.
The relationship between these tribesmen to their gods and goddesses was a relationship of bribery and favor. Sacrifices were done in order to appease and please and "purchase" favor health good will and of course ward of evil. Nature was severe and ancestors important.
To quickly sum up we are dealing with a very sophisticated and cosmopolitan and civilized people here.
Let's keep that in mind as we explore this letter Paul wrote to them...which caused such a stirring...even today
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Lon
Well-known member
Seen it before? Didn't correct you? How about Romans?
Highlighted verses? You already don't listen. Not listening to God will continue to be between you and He. You've a problem. The scriptures speak against your assertions.
More? The good news is nobody who is the Lord's is going to listen to Clefty. They are going to listen to scriptures and they are clear.
and 5 posts? All expressing some feigned hurt? Scriptures, despite your protest, are going to have to be good enough. You love to hear your own voice arguing too much. It needs not be indulged. READ the scriptures and know them. None bolded here. They are clear enough.
I really cannot be bothered with your banter and poor assertions/assessment. You don't have that gift either. One would wonder what your gift from God actually is. You don't love well, Make these kinds of waves with others (I've looked), so no, it isn't me. It's you. All you.
Spoiler
Highlighted verses? You already don't listen. Not listening to God will continue to be between you and He. You've a problem. The scriptures speak against your assertions.
More? The good news is nobody who is the Lord's is going to listen to Clefty. They are going to listen to scriptures and they are clear.
and 5 posts? All expressing some feigned hurt? Scriptures, despite your protest, are going to have to be good enough. You love to hear your own voice arguing too much. It needs not be indulged. READ the scriptures and know them. None bolded here. They are clear enough.
I really cannot be bothered with your banter and poor assertions/assessment. You don't have that gift either. One would wonder what your gift from God actually is. You don't love well, Make these kinds of waves with others (I've looked), so no, it isn't me. It's you. All you.
By the way, whoever saw his truth in Jesus message (by reading Jesus sayings directly on the Gospel), he doesn't see the need to observe anymore the movements of the sun and the moon in his spiritual life.
To him in the least, his God is Spirit and it happens that he perceives also, in his being, a living soul (besides his living flesh) which is born of the Spirit.
He also knows that God's Spirit and his living soul are not limited by time or place. So, naturally, he is, in spirit, with the Father in Heaven and Jesus all the time and everywhere while being guided by their unifying Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit.
But, this doesn't prevent him to respect/observe, as possible, the holy days of the people he lives among or he may visit them.
Now, you know why it is very important to find out, also as possible, the day(s) that each group of believers in the world observes as being God's Holy Day(s).
This thread is, indeed, very interesting in this respect.
To him in the least, his God is Spirit and it happens that he perceives also, in his being, a living soul (besides his living flesh) which is born of the Spirit.
He also knows that God's Spirit and his living soul are not limited by time or place. So, naturally, he is, in spirit, with the Father in Heaven and Jesus all the time and everywhere while being guided by their unifying Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit.
But, this doesn't prevent him to respect/observe, as possible, the holy days of the people he lives among or he may visit them.
Now, you know why it is very important to find out, also as possible, the day(s) that each group of believers in the world observes as being God's Holy Day(s).
This thread is, indeed, very interesting in this respect.
and when He says do His Father’s Will you miss that His Father willed they keep His Law which includes the seventh day rest after six daze of work? Or that when He says follow me which would mean to include not only to carry a cross if need be to your death but also follow Him into a house of worship on those Sabbath days...?
Or when He says “love AS I loved you”... now you would readily understand that His love would not include stealing or murder or lying or coveting or adultery or dishonoring parents right? Please realize that most other gods naturally have this same sense of fair play in their “love”...
BUT there remains in His Love further qualifiers which sets it apart from the other loves...namely no blaspheming His Name or making/worshipping an image or another god as there is NO other god yes? Notice any thing else that might be included in His love? Oh yes, the seventh day Sabbath was also in His love as He restored to IT healing and serving others...do we include this day in our love of others?...even our employees? A whole day off? And to rest ALL day? NO OTHER god provides this gift of grace to his followers...
Funny how it used to be so popular the saying WWJD? What Would Jesus Do?...certainly go into a house of worship and read scriptures on the Sabbath as was His custom...
some of us however realize with immense joy and gravity that this Eternal Immortal All Sovereignty actually LIMITED HIMSELF to us for us...created for us a world in 6 days and then rested the 7th...He constricted minimized and contained Himself even into a cadence for us to understand and come be with the I AM on a day He made holy...His Holy Sabbath
this joining of Immortal Spirit to Mortal Flesh has been celebrated according to HIS INSTRUCTIONS ever since...even in the desert when and where again He dwelt with us in time and space...and later when the Word became Flesh...and again to show us the Way back to Him...to restore us back to His Ways...is why He asks we follow Him His way...
indeed...and thereby makes them a. unique and a peculiar people set aside Holy and separate from the world...His choice to become known and specific to be reduced to material flesh and to even being killed is the Love and Grace not even pagan gods can claim
yes there are many claimed gods to worship...and many ways to worship in man’s traditions...however He and His remain unique and singular in both space and TIME
HalleluYah...
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Wut? Wait? You don’t wanna do Galatians anymore but skip back to Romans?
Spoiler
Phew that was a lot...I noted you missed 7:14 “For we know that the law is spiritual...” we know that? Right? I mean Paul the Romans and I do...but thanks for acknowledging a law remains...for awhile there I thought you claimed it was destroyed.
But yet you maintain this letter to the Romans proves the Law was destroyed(?) done away with or changed.
Well then why was it along with Galatians NOT submitted into the trials of Paul? It was written well before then. The opposition would have clear evidence to submit and not just:
Acts 24:5-6 We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect and even tried to desecrate the temple; so we seized him.
THAT’S YOU! LON...that is YOUR view...Paul is a trouble maker BECAUSE he freed us from the LAW yiiiiippppppeeeeee...we are freeeeee!!!!!
Now imagine this accusation with copies of both Galatians and Romans sitting before the court...your copies of course all highlighted and stuff...LOL
Paul maintained
Acts 24:12-16 My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. ( could you imagine the row it would stir if INDEED Paul was teaching the Law changed destroyed no longer applied) And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me.(errr...how about them letters on the table there to Galatians and Romans?) However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, (but but but the cross changed everything...new...there is NEW!!!)and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Hmmmmm...even the OT promise to the Gentiles? Oh wait EXACTLY THAT...lol
Please recall that even the Pharisees saw NOTHING WRONG with Paul:
Acts 23:9 There was a great uproar, and some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up and argued vigorously. "We find nothing wrong with this man," they said. "What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"
How about these letters you claim prove the Law was changed Lon? Didn’t the pharisees KNOW Paul did away with the Law? Pharisees would agree Sabbath was done away with...let’s go eat cat bat and wombat? LOL
Paul knew exactly why he was on trial and not for what you would suppose:
Acts 23:6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."
Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Ahhh yes...that we all turn to Yah even to works...doing good...in Him towards righteousness...doing His works befitting repentance away from the world and their former selves and to Him HIS WAY...seven days a week...
Paul says clearly 7:25 “I thank Yah through Yahushua our Lord! So then with my mind I myself serve the Law of Yah” and verse 25 “For I delight in the Law of Yah according to the inward man.” Makes sense as the Law is spiritual right? Not just on stones but written in our hearts and minds. Please notice how Paul writes it is the Law of Yah and not His Son’s or a new commandment or something changed...certainly not destroyed or something...
Yup the Law of Yah is spiritual not just in stone...as FLESH PROFITS NOTHING...like circumcision...is why Paul was also clear that “ if an uncircumcised man KEEPS the righteous requirements of the law will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?” Romans 2:26 (since you skipped it in your spoiler above)
so obviously Yah’s Law is the righteous requirement which sets the standard for those who are either cut or uncut to strive for...certainly not in order to be cut or saved...faith is first...then the cutting (or not)...ironically it is the PARENTS faith to cut the male child...
is WHY circumcision NEVER saved as it was done TO you and not By you...but that’s more for Galatians...is why we don’t do infant baptisms...
“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua” Rev 14:12
awww come on man...not just that...
Did you see with your own eyeballs that very thing which was abolished —->that enmity for gentiles by the jews?
It’s displayed here from that wall which He tore down between Jew and gentile making ONE new man...
https://leonmauldin.blog/2010/04/01/...e-inscription/
Yup there it is that enmity that was abolished in commandments found in ordinances.
Were you able to read that ordnance coming at you?
If not, it might have gotten you killed.
Luckily you had years of Greek right?
except the ones you skipped...LOL
1 John 2:4 Whoever says I know him but DOES NOT KEEP the commandments is a liar.”
We are to love AS He loved us...John 15:12 “This is my command that you love one another as I have loved you.”
The inner jew with circumcised heart knows the Law is spiritual and of course Loving His Way fulfills the Law...every citizen of the commonwealth of Israel knows that...or should...lol
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Thank you for being clear.
By the way, I also say to my Muslim friends that, in my spiritual life, I don't follow the sun and the moon as they are supposed to do.
And I am glad that Jesus, unlike anyone else, agrees with me on this
perhaps not clear enough....?
By the way, I also say to my Muslim friends that, in my spiritual life, I don't follow the sun and the moon as they are supposed to do.
And I am glad that Jesus, unlike anyone else, agrees with me on this
He does does He?
Could you please explain for me then what "take My burden it is light and My yoke is easy" means to you and maybe follow up with "if you love Me follow Me...keep My commandments...Love as I loved you"...
Thanks.
Sorry, sometimes I forgot that in English... 'Thank you' may sound its inverse if followed by a reason
"take My burden it is light and My yoke is easy" is obvious. With Jesus, there are no rules to learn and follow because it is all about love/trust and nothing else
I read "if you love Me follow Me...keep My commandments...Love as I loved you"... "if you 'trust' Me follow Me...keep My advices...Love anyone, you may meet, as I loved you".
I like adding that I didn't meet yet even one mature person who thinks that his belief(s) could be wrong.
I mean; I just try presenting, when asked, what I have in mind while understanding others the way they are.
Lon
Well-known member
Hebrews
Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
Heb 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons.
If His, buckle up.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also.
Heb 7:16 who is made, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:18 For truly there is a putting away of the commandment which went before, because of the weakness and unprofitableness of it.
Heb 7:19 For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw near to God.
Heb 7:22 by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, then no place would have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt," because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My Laws into their mind and write them in their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
Heb 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons.
If His, buckle up.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also.
Heb 7:16 who is made, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:18 For truly there is a putting away of the commandment which went before, because of the weakness and unprofitableness of it.
Heb 7:19 For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw near to God.
Heb 7:22 by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, then no place would have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt," because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My Laws into their mind and write them in their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.
Lon
Well-known member
Galatians 5:15But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by each other. 16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Enough cents/sense to pay attention? It'd be nice.
Sorry, sometimes I forgot that in English... 'Thank you' may sound its inverse if followed by a reason
No your thanks are clear enough I was not clear on remembering the Sabbath as you continued that you think that Jesus does not have a Holy Day...seperate from the rest
hmmmm you mean like a puppy learns to love/trust? How about a baby learns to love/trust his mother...later does he love/trust his wife the same way? And then when married love/trust yet another woman...or since NO RULES how about love/trust another man while in a love/trust with your wife..."take My burden it is light and My yoke is easy" is obvious. With Jesus, there are no rules to learn and follow because it is all about love/trust and nothing else
I hear all the time among christian gays that the old law is done away with so they can love/trust the same sex...soon love/trust animals the same way?
Sorry this love/trust gets really vague and general with all the various relationships available out there...do we love/trust children like priests often do? I mean lots of kids are being love/trusted today and don’t seem to happy about it...so...again please specify for me? Thanks...
oh ok...so it is trust and advice...ok that is a bit more specific...and reasonable...but again trust and advice comes even professionally like with doctor or teacher or used car salesman...you can actually pay for it...the more money the better...odd that...
As for the Jesus I know He has taught and modeled a lifestyle to follow but you have read something else...a different Jesus...a no rules love...
Maybe 1 John can help explain my Jesus:
1:3-7 that we might walk in light 8 if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves even make Him a liar verse 10
2:3-6 we know we know Him if we keep His commandments if you dont you are a LIAR...if you claim to live in Him you must live as He did...NIV (translations are interesting to compare)
15 do NOT love the world or things in the world...good measure of real love and the love of the Father is not in one that does love the world etc...
29 practice righteousness reveals you are born of Him...course what is righteous right? Hint: His Works...
3rd chapter deals with do not sin and abiding in Him we don’t...so what is sin? Again good qualifiers to indicate what is NOT LOVE...love not in word or tongue but DEED and TRUTH...wow...what’s that? This chapter ends with 3 verses on keeping the commandments to please Him to believe in the Name of His Son...as He gave us commandment and finally he who keeps the commandments abides IN HIM...and He in him...and the Spirit too...showing us the Way we should go...you’ll read that elsewhere...
4rth is also good as it speaks on why we love...He loved us first but we cant say we love Yah and hate another...
5th sums it up by this we know we love...when we love Yah and keep His commandments and they are NOT burdensome...
I have met many many who claim “I LOVE GOD” but oh man are His commandments burdensome...they try SO HARD to avoid them saying things like they have been destroyed or changed or NOT FOR ME...LOL...
I pray for them but for the ones not sinning the sin that leads to death...some are sinning the sin leading to death no need to pray for those...all unrighteousness is sin but there is sin NOT leading to death...is WHY we have to learn how to love AS HE DID...He knew not all would reciprocate...sometimes we love too much...
John ends with admonishing to keep ourselves from sin...we can have understanding...and finishes with “keep from idols”
Now that is good advice as idols are false images of Love...kinda like imagining a Love with no rules...
oh I think that...is WHY I ask and share and learn to trust and get advice...but being wrong and admitting it builds trust in oneself too...a real growth can occur in correction
fair enough...but still curious if you could re present your love/trust thingy with examples even.
Would help me trust your advices right?
Lon
Well-known member
Sloppy. Yes to the first part. The second is rather what you hope/fear I am. :nono: You simply don't listen and work up strawmen to knock down. Your other threads show you are enamored with being a Jew, at least grafted in. Such will prevent you from grasping and understanding the contexts of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians and in a couple of points, Hebrews as well.
There are and were two ways to deal with sin: 1) avoid it (not a bad plan at all) and 2) confess, for forgiveness and present something to make it right.
After the Cross 1) Avoid it (still a good plan but you now have ALL of those laws written on your heart, guess which one doesn't feel spiritually compelling in the same exact manner that you want to observe it?) 2) Present yourself, your bodies to Him. Some advocate a need to ask forgiveness, and others, in faith, bank on the mercies and work of Christ in dealing with sin.
Given to exaggeration. Why? Because you like lifting up strawmen and knocking them down. It is the mark of someone who 'wants to teach so badly.' Don't look to me, look to Christ. Banter as you offer is of no value whatsoever. It is why I've been only presenting scriptures. You simply do not need to be indulged.
Context? Jews. You are so enamored, your eyes are blinded to two covenants. Count them, at LEAST two covenants. You are stuck in the one called "Law."
They did, had him beheaded eventually. Because he broke a law? :nono: Even they weren't keeping it. Paul said so. Jesus said so. What happens is (like here) someone uses the Law to lord it over another. It is great for people who want to be gurus (instead of Christ being the Only between God and man).
That's enough. Your fragile feelings are hurt when someone clips you, but you are too long winded with nothing really substantial. Get used to it.
oh boy...yet another book? Slow down coach I have seen these plays before but still catching up to your version of them...although your style is quite similar to others I have seen:
Let me guess:
Heb 7:12 right? So before we continue might I offer:
G3346 – μετατίθημι – metatithemi – transfer
Act 7:16 And were carried over(G3346) into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money of the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed(G3346) from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed(G3346), there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated(G3346) that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated(G3346) him: for before his translation(G3331) he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning(G3346) the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
G3331 – μετάθεσις – metathesis – transference
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change(G3331) also of the law.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated(G3346) that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated(G3346) him: for before his translation(G3331) he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing(G3331) of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
oh I am buckled...got my helmet on too cuz you gonna flip this thing...
THERE IT IS!...Ha...See? I knew you would get here coach...let’s see what you do with this...
so as we learned above since it went to a new management of course they had to move it...you know new administration...but I bet you like to add that NO MORE SABBATH is included in that right oh and EAT CAT BATS AND WOMBATS too...right?
speaking of the High Priest again administering the IMMUTABLE LAW...PERFECT I think David called it...
Paul addressed this earlier but you skipped through to fast...Romans 3:20 by deeds of the law no flesh will be justified...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin...7:7 not known sin without Law
So is the ladder to the cockpit weak and unprofitable because it doesnt make you fly? Oh wait...is the plane weak and unprofitable because it doesnt make you fly...needs a pilot...oh wait is the instrumentation panel with coordinates weak and unprofitable cuz it doesnt get you there or does it need a pilot his plane and a ladder to get into the plane...Paul was clear but we skipped it Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good...14 for we know the law is spiritual...22 For I delight in the Law of Yah...25 I thank Yah through Yahushua our Lord so then with the mind I myself serve the law of Yah...NOT HIS SON’S...but all that was to the Romans...maybe the Hebrews disagreed? LOL
oh good...the Hebrews must have understood all that waiting for a Messiah all those centuries no? Were they expecting Him to free them from the Sabbath to be able to eat cat bats and wombats maybe?
yup an eternal High Priest not one that kept dying and needing to be replaced...ministering an IMMUTABLE LAW by an OATH that came after it verse 28.
Yup much better covenant but nothing there about NO MORE SABBATH or we can eat dogs now too...
HalleluYah so what about the Law?...all this was about a shiny NEW COVENANT which contains the Law in it...and clearly in our hearts and minds...with new signers and co signers...I mean Yahushua taught and lived this New Better Covenant BEFORE He was killed signing it with His blood and sealing it with His death...no changers after testator dies right? It is complete FINISHED...in force only AFTER the death of the testator Heb 9:16-17 but you skipped that part too...
Too bad too as chapter 9 of Hebrews reveals that these covenants were so similar they still had the Law which demanded death to enforce them...Heb 9:22 you would think if the Covenants could change their Law omit the blood shedding clause BEFORE the signing and spare the shedding of blood of His Son...anyway this Once sacrifice remains to the end of the age as after death the judgement...which of course needs the LAW...duh...
Ok so did the Law survive your Hebrew Scripture dump? I still see it...nothing there about the New Covenant He lived and modeled and taught abrogating ONE of the 10 let alone ALL of them...don’t see much reason to eat swine either...
Heb 10 also deals with sin...after the day of Atonement mentioning blood of bulls and goats never removed sin...and also if we sin willfully after we have received knowledge of the truth there remains no sacrifice for sin...but fearful expectation of judgement to what...abolished Law? No it continues to encourage with endurance so that after you have done what...believed had faith? NO...but done the Will of Yah you may receive the promise...and then the famous quote THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH...ironically found in the OT Hab 2:4...NOTE: it is the JUST shall live and not the UNJUST by his faith...how is one JUST? According to what standard?
You left out Heb 11 too...the famous hall of fame of faith...28 by faith they kept the Passover...and then received the Law...NOT THE PROMISE...the good was STILL TO COME...since they OBEYED
Of course you mentioned parts of chapter 12...without reasoning why the chastisement if the Law was abolished no sin reveal...but NO look Verse 14 pursue peace with all men and HOLINESS without which no one will see the Lord...28 we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken...so serve Yah acceptably...you think false worship is acceptable...worship NOT LIKE He demonstrated?...30 For Yah is a consuming fire...to be feared...
Please note He ALONE is Immortal His fire burning forever...NOT HELL FIRE...Satan has us agaonizing and fearing an Eternal fire which is Him...how tragic...
Oh and finally you skipped chapter 13:8 Yahushua is the same yesterday today and forever...a Sabbath keeper...follow Him...9 the heart be established by Grace not clean foods...and yet once the heart is established clean by Grace what food will it allow for the body? Clean as it remains a holy temple His...and not your own...THAT is affirmed at the last
29 Now may Yah of peace who brought up our Lord Yahushua from the dead that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant 21 make you complete in every good work TO DO HIS WILL, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight through Yahushua...
So what is Yah’s Will? To give up Sabbath and eat cat bat and wombat?
Not found in a letter to the Hebrews...
Lon
Well-known member
Ah. "Other" makes so much sense now. We Protestants, Reformed, MAD, Evangelical, think otherwise:
Romans 6:13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!
2 Corinthians 3:2Co 3:6 who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory (so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his face), which was being done away;
2Co 3:8 shall not the ministry of the Spirit be with more glory?
2Corinthians 3:11 For if that which has been done away was glorious, much more that which remains is glorious.
You cannot win against Paul. Why would anyone try? Scripture is true and Clefty is out in the cold.