THE LORDS DAY CONTROVERSY?

[clefty]

:nono: You really don't know your stuff.

here we go again...

Protestants are protestants over this particular.

your list of denominations that saw abrogation to the OT Law...an anti semitic divorce from it...did NOT include your elders the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox...

Martin Luther only began with protesting the authority of Rome...yet retained most of its doctrine and liturgy including trinity eucharist infant baptism etc oh yeah and worship on Sunday a tradition they claimed was given to them with authority to change both times and Law...

There always was however a brave minority that did NOT compromise for the praise of men...they were persecuted to be sure...hated for His Name...which was also Latinized or Anglicized ANYTHING but Hebrew...LOL

In fact the issue of iconoclasm came up as Luther’s professor Carlstadt expected the reform to include the removal of images ikons and relics TOO...but Luther thought it a bit too much...writing to a friend “we might as well keep the OT Sabbath then”...and Carlstadt DID keep the Sabbath...his reformation of church becoming a restoration to Him His Ways...HalleluYah

Sadly it’s been a slow reform these hundreds of years and bloody...And even more sadly MOST Protestants today find the reformation over...no more need to protest...and even return to the rising church militant...tradition and peer pressure right?

You, actually, side with Catholics on the Law, more than I.

LUTHER inserted “ALLEIN” to his translation of faith ALONE to come out of the ditch of catholic works legalism...”do this in order to get that”

Poor Luther and certainly the rest of you OVERSTEERED into the other ditch of “faith ONLY” and nothing else...grace is enough...His Law is done away with or NOT FOR ME...just grace thanks...JESUS but NOT what HE taught or demonstrated...JESUS! JESUS!...but NOT His Father’s will...”I LOVE YOU JEEEEEEEESUS!!! But keep Your Ways to Yourself...I got my own traditions and ideas thanks”

Correct, which is why scripture says you are Judaised.

I am NOT Judaizing by claiming faith does not void the law but we establish Law Rom 3:31

Biblical definition of what the Jews were insisting was you must DO WORKS...circumcisize IN THE MANNER OF MOSES...in order to be SAVED...there are TWO reasons why that is NOT taught IN THE OT

1) the OT teaches by FAITH one is saved...by faith mixed multitude of Israel was saved from Egypt and THEN given the Law...by FAITH...read Heb 11...never you must be circumcised in order to be saved...or even FELLOWSHIP with Jews...

2) to circumcise IN THE CUSTOM OF MOSES meant new believers had to be circumcised on the 8th day of their existence...PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE as they were full grown adults now crowding into synagogues...Judaizers were putting a burden on others they themselves (because they were circumcised at infancy) never lifted a finger to bear themselves...

Matt 23:4 and Luke 11:46 has Yahushua busting this same pharisaical attitude with these UNBIBLICAL burdens they did NOT bear themselves...

Judaizers do that...YOU MUST in order to be saved...not having done the same...

OT NEVER TAUGHT THAT

You are EITHER of the law, or grace.

exactly wrong...your stiff necked uncircumcised heart attitude towards Law puts a veil over your eyes in reading the OT

First you restore the wall He destroyed between jew and goyim making ONE NEW MAN as it was in the OT ONE LAW for native and foreigner ALIKE...

And now you wish to build a wall between Law and Grace...when it was Grace because of Law in the Garden...

Your veil keeps you reading the OT like a jew refusing to see it POINTS OUT HIM

that the Law IS GRACE pointing our NEED of a Savior...Who taught and demonstrated HOW IT CAN BE DONE...

Every child LOVES knowing exactly what the Parent expects from them...wanting to DO THAT and NOT in order to become the child but BECAUSE THEY ALREADY ARE THE CHILD and wish to PLEASE the parent. Out of gratitude etc...

Grace is the child’s KNOWING what pleases the parent...he can DO THAT and not only live but PLEASE

But nooooo...your no rules game sucks...when I play tennis it is to enjoy the GAME not keep the rules...how long does the enjoyment last if my opponent claims the rules no longer exist or apply to him...LOL

You see pros playing...SUCH GRACE because they practice and KNOW and do it naturally it is a JOY even to watch...GRACE...harmony forgiveness EASE...all takes practice and knowing the rules...

Grace like this:

https://youtu.be/5ZgICeN3Oc8

What a beautiful thing knowing the rules...GRACE...what a beautiful game...


Judiazers ruined the game by telling the BEGINNERS you HAVE to serve an ACE and NOW to play with us...LOL

Come on coach you know this...and love the game right? Playing without rules...impossible

The player is already in the HEART then he learns the rules...he WANTS to...and to practice...DUH

Right, teaches you, you've already broken it. That is its only purpose now.

that was ALWAYS its ONLY purpose to reveal your need for restoration to Him His ways...that restoration was first in the blood of animals and then in His fufilling the DBBT not abolishing the Price as the Law remains to still point out our need in 2020 of a savior...

"Salvation is found in no other..."

right Him...the shadows merely point out more things to come STILL and from Him...UNTIL SIN IS NO MORE and we are restored forever by HIM...is why NOW we WANT to please Him having been saved we WANT to walk as He did LOVE AS HE DID...and the Spirit regenerates us until we die to continue HIS WORK IN US to do His FATHERS WILL...sorry my CAP button keeps sticking...LOL

Further, "He is able to keep, that which He has promised, until that day." You've changed that to "...but YOU need to keep it, until that day." :nono:

His having kept it motivates us into keeping it...since He asked us too...you know “on earth as it is in heaven”...see? Restoration...until that day it ACTUALLY occurs and we are not surprised by the Father’s House Rules that were for ALL who believed and obeyed...you know citizens of the commonwealth of Israel...not lawless...or one law less...or NOT FOR YOU cuz you MAD or something else rebellious

If scripture cannot change you, coming from our Lord God, then I've no hope. This debate lives and dies upon knowing one's Bible and listening intently to Him. There is nothing left for me if scriptures do not suffice. You can go on, ahead, and think arrogantly you are all that, or you can humble yourself under His mighty hand. At least take a few moments and humble yourself before Him. ASK what He'd say to you. He indeed, has been clear in His scriptures and it is mine, and ALL of Protestants, evangelicals, etc. position, that you are wrong. Your gauntlet is thrown in an incredible minority audacity. One WOULD think you'd rethink that. I rethink every point I happen to disagree with the majority upon, simply because I don't think God shows favoritism. The VERY FEW remnant is poor theology.

oh my...many are called few are chosen...narrow path...NOT Jeeeeesus! Jeeeeesus! but the DOING of His Fathers’ will...Love AS I have Loved JUST AS...you know cuz you already ARE saved...NOT to become saved...

Btw did you enjoy SEEING the photo of what was abolished in Eph 2:15? Were you able to read the commandment found in ordinances? I mean you know, your years of greek...

 

[Lon]

here we go again...

your list of denominations that saw abrogation to the OT Law...an anti semitic divorce from it...did NOT include your elders the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox...

Martin Luther only began with protesting the authority of Rome...yet retained most of its doctrine and liturgy including trinity eucharist infant baptism etc oh yeah and worship on Sunday a tradition they claimed was given to them with authority to change both times and Law...

There always was however a brave minority that did NOT compromise for the praise of men...they were persecuted to be sure...hated for His Name...which was also Latinized or Anglicized ANYTHING but Hebrew...LOL

In fact the issue of iconoclasm came up as Luther’s professor Carlstadt expected the reform to include the removal of images ikons and relics TOO...but Luther thought it a bit too much...writing to a friend “we might as well keep the OT Sabbath then”...and Carlstadt DID keep the Sabbath...his reformation of church becoming a restoration to Him His Ways...HalleluYah

Sadly it’s been a slow reform these hundreds of years and bloody...And even more sadly MOST Protestants today find the reformation over...no more need to protest...and even return to the rising church militant...tradition and peer pressure right?


LUTHER inserted “ALLEIN” to his translation of faith ALONE to come out of the ditch of catholic works legalism...”do this in order to get that”

Poor Luther and certainly the rest of you OVERSTEERED into the other ditch of “faith ONLY” and nothing else...grace is enough...His Law is done away with or NOT FOR ME...just grace thanks...JESUS but NOT what HE taught or demonstrated...JESUS! JESUS!...but NOT His Father’s will...”I LOVE YOU JEEEEEEEESUS!!! But keep Your Ways to Yourself...I got my own traditions and ideas thanks”


I am NOT Judaizing by claiming faith does not void the law but we establish Law Rom 3:31

To the complete ignorance of Paul's writings. They ARE clear. Sloppy meshing of the Old to the New is always what causes problems. Always, thus you, Catholics, and other Extrinsic proponents will never encourage another to walk by the Spirit properly. The Law simply teaches. It does not 'make' holiness. It teaches you about it, so in that, it truly is good, but Jesus said (sermon on the mount) "You've heard it said...but I say...." It establishes Him as God and establishes something MUCH higher than the Law. Paul's whole treatise concerning the Law is similar to Christ: Those who live by the sword, will die by it, and those who live by the law, will die by it. Galatians 2:19;3:12

Biblical definition of what the Jews were insisting was you must DO WORKS...circumcisize IN THE MANNER OF MOSES...in order to be SAVED...there are TWO reasons why that is NOT taught IN THE OT

1) the OT teaches by FAITH one is saved...by faith mixed multitude of Israel was saved from Egypt and THEN given the Law...by FAITH...read Heb 11...never you must be circumcised in order to be saved...or even FELLOWSHIP with Jews...

Galatians 5:18??? It is like you know half your Bible only

2) to circumcise IN THE CUSTOM OF MOSES meant new believers had to be circumcised on the 8th day of their existence...PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE as they were full grown adults now crowding into synagogues...Judaizers were putting a burden on others they themselves (because they were circumcised at infancy) never lifted a finger to bear themselves...

Matt 23:4 and Luke 11:46 has Yahushua busting this same pharisaical attitude with these UNBIBLICAL burdens they did NOT bear themselves...

Judaizers do that...YOU MUST in order to be saved...not having done the same...

OT NEVER TAUGHT THAT

:think Deuteronomy 27:26 You like links, have you read CARM on this?

exactly wrong...your stiff necked uncircumcised heart attitude towards Law puts a veil over your eyes in reading the OT

You are throwing scriptures around like cultists who so badly want them to be their own words and not God, and with no fear that you are mixing the word of God with your fable. YOU are exactly wrong. Everybody but a VERY few Seventh Day Adventists thinks so. Your kingdom is much too small and you've prophetically stepped up into the place of Jesus (which is why VERY few of us should become teachers, getting in the way of the Spirit and playing Holy Spirit). This alone is enough for anyone to completely reject you on TOL: You, Clefty, are getting in the way of the Savior with nonsense.

First you restore the wall He destroyed between jew and goyim making ONE NEW MAN as it was in the OT ONE LAW for native and foreigner ALIKE...

:nono: YOU assume the new man isn't new, just two olds placed together. As you are fond of reminding, the gentiles already were part of that. Such WOULDN'T have been new... :nono: You are too committed to a poor reading of scripture. Your elders were wrong.

[And now you wish to build a wall between Law and Grace...when it was Grace because of Law in the Garden...

This is still you trying to be grafted into DYING Jews, not living ones. You are the one with the fuzzy math here. You are stiff-necked. Why is that? Why do we (me included) resist truth rather than simply read it and become changed by it? We are so prideful. It is really hard not to do that on TOL so perhaps it raises our hackles, but that is exactly why I'm trying to use scriptures more than anything else with you. Only God can change hardness. Only He can break through.

Your veil keeps you reading the OT like a jew refusing to see it POINTS OUT HIM

Says the man stuck in translations because he can read neither Greek nor Hebrew :sigh: All this posturing... :sigh:

that the Law IS GRACE pointing our NEED of a Savior...Who taught and demonstrated HOW IT CAN BE DONE...

Scripture please.

Every child LOVES knowing exactly what the Parent expects from them...wanting to DO THAT and NOT in order to become the child but BECAUSE THEY ALREADY ARE THE CHILD and wish to PLEASE the parent. Out of gratitude etc...

Grace is the child’s KNOWING what pleases the parent...he can DO THAT and not only live but PLEASE

I'm not against, nor more importantly, do I believe Scripture is against the above.

But nooooo...your no rules game sucks...when I play tennis it is to enjoy the GAME not keep the rules...how long does the enjoyment last if my opponent claims the rules no longer exist or apply to him...LOL

Hogwash. I saw a 'law' man scold a child once because he could not balance. That child, held back over and over and over lost for the team. The child could NEVER do that coordinated effort. What Jesus did, was made us awkward children, able to enjoy the game (as far as analogy can take us, they are always limited in scope).

You see pros playing...SUCH GRACE because they practice and KNOW and do it naturally it is a JOY even to watch...GRACE...harmony forgiveness EASE...all takes practice and knowing the rules...

:nono: This is where analogy goes to far. While I do press on with Paul, there are parts of the Law I can never fulfill. The flesh tugs at us, such that Jesus said if you covet, or lust, you've broken the Law. While the Law, indeed is good, we could get so caught up in the worries of trying to fulfill it, that we lose the joy from the frustration, of spending time with our Savior. "Mary has chosen the better thing..."

Grace like this:

https://youtu.be/5ZgICeN3Oc8

What a beautiful thing knowing the rules...GRACE...what a beautiful game...

Yet you, like that other law-abiding man, was miserable and wicked to that child who could not balance. While physical inability is not the same, it really did, in fact, come from his sense of 'rules' (Law) thus is adequate for analogy: He lacked the grace to know that Christ meets our needs and inadequacies.

Judiazers ruined the game by telling the BEGINNERS you HAVE to serve an ACE and NOW to play with us...LOL

Agreed/

Come on coach you know this...and love the game right? Playing without rules...impossible

I had a coach that told me I wasn't good enough to play (baseball at the time). I had no father, so had never played catch, and so the coach was right.
A better coach? Would have spent after hours time with that fatherless child to help him get ready. That coach? Bad coach.

The player is already in the HEART then he learns the rules...he WANTS to...and to practice...DUH

And 'duh' some of them will never make the team specifically because they don't have the ability. Your theology, leaves a lot of struggling people outside of the kingdom. I wasn't raised by a drunken father (fatherless, remember?) I rather know, these have a more difficult time. I had a kid in camp that was special assigned to me, because I loved on him. His father had just died and he was very angry at the world. It was a rough 5 weeks but I knew they were right to give me that kid. Poor behavior, yet loved me, and wanted to do well. He's an alcoholic, I'm told to this day. I do know one thing: "Where sin did abound, grace much more did abound." Your theology doesn't have a place for that kid-now-man. He is simply 'out' by your reckoning.

that was ALWAYS its ONLY purpose to reveal your need for restoration to Him His ways...that restoration was first in the blood of animals and then in His fufilling the DBBT not abolishing the Price as the Law remains to still point out our need in 2020 of a savior...

:Yet, 1) it keeps out the man mentioned above and 2) requires I keep 'checking back to it, to make sure' as well as make sure I'm taking a day off every 6 days or else!

right Him...the shadows merely point out more things to come STILL and from Him...UNTIL SIN IS NO MORE and we are restored forever by HIM...is why NOW we WANT to please Him having been saved we WANT to walk as He did LOVE AS HE DID...and the Spirit regenerates us until we die to continue HIS WORK IN US to do His FATHERS WILL...sorry my CAP button keeps sticking...LOL

It works, if using limited. The other does pay more attention for a few moments.

His having kept it motivates us into keeping it...since He asked us too...you know “on earth as it is in heaven”...see? Restoration...until that day it ACTUALLY occurs and we are not surprised by the Father’s House Rules that were for ALL who believed and obeyed...you know citizens of the commonwealth of Israel...not lawless...or one law less...or NOT FOR YOU cuz you MAD or something else rebellious

To a degree, yes. You are correct. In life, I actually want to be as my Savior, and it is hard to sin when you are praying and spending time with Him. Thus, I'm a bit rebellious with legalism and 'the rules' because referees absolutely can and do, take the fun out of the game where the 'game' is no longer the focus but the 'rules.' Do we throw out every player? :nono: Just a penalty in football. Baseball? Not a lot errors. You either tag the guy or miss. So in the world of play and rules, the game is the thing. The rules are a background interest, not the game itself. Could you imagine basketball without a basket? You don't really have to tell the kid to shoot for the 'basket' as a 'rule.' It is just part of the game. Those with Christ living in them, make the Law, incidental.

oh my...many are called few are chosen...narrow path...NOT Jeeeeesus! Jeeeeesus! but the DOING of His Fathers’ will...Love AS I have Loved JUST AS...you know cuz you already ARE saved...NOT to become saved...

Btw did you enjoy SEEING the photo of what was abolished in Eph 2:15? Were you able to read the commandment found in ordinances? I mean you know, your years of greek...

Taking His Name in Vain. Yep, two different gospels. As I suspected, "Other", you don't even keep 9 of 10 You are in desperate need of grace. The two commands are to Love Him (this is it???) and love one another. Honestly? From what I'm reading, I'm not seeing maturity on either count from you. Continue READING please (and stop making it up in your head):

Rom 9:7 nor because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children. But, "In Isaac shall your Seed be called."
Rom 9:8 That is, not the children of the flesh are children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for a seed.

Rom 9:11 (for the children had not yet been born, neither had done any good or evil; but that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who called,)
Rom 9:12 it was said to her, "The elder shall serve the younger."
Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!
Rom 9:15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy.

Rom 9:26 And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the nations, who did not follow after righteousness have taken on righteousness, but a righteousness of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, who followed after a law of righteousness did not arrive at a law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because it was not of faith, but as it were by the works of the Law. For they stumbled at that Stumbling-stone;
Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I lay in Zion a Stumbling-stone and a Rock-of-offense, and everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Rom 10:3 For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes.

Keep reading, chapters 11-16 continue to explain ▲this▲ To ignore Paul, is to ignore scripture and God.

"If" anyone is in Christ, they are a new creation, the old, has passed away....

 

[clefty]

To the complete ignorance of Paul's writings.

here we go again...

They ARE clear.

AND STILL NOT SUBMITTED AT HIS TRIAL to prove what you claim...That Paul taught Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...the same false witness jews spread to stir up the people against poor Stephen.
But Paul’s accusers COULD NOT PROVE what they asserted...which is EXACTLY what you try to keep doing here.

Sloppy meshing of the Old to the New is always what causes problems.

is why it’s better understood as RENEW...besides the covenant was renewed but I will put MY LAW...NOT My NEW Law or even My improved law or updated law or My Son’s much HIGHER LAW...nope but just I will put MY LAW into hearts and minds...

Always, thus you, Catholics, and other Extrinsic proponents will never encourage another to walk by the Spirit properly.

catholics claim the Spirit leads one to follow catholic works tradition law...I maintain the Spirit leads one to follow and fulfill His OWN LAW...that is properly as He would know...

The Law simply teaches. It does not 'make' holiness. It teaches you about it, so in that, it truly is good,

thanks so dont just hear about it DO IT...you know what Moses taught from his seat DO THAT Yahushua said...

but Jesus said (sermon on the mount) "You've heard it said...but I say...." It establishes Him as God and establishes something MUCH higher than the Law.

So what He said abrogates His Father’s law you would have the house divided? How does dont kill vs dont even get mad abrogate the first...or dont commit adultery vs dont lust...or dont swear falsely vs dont swear at all? Its about the circumcised heart the inner jew the clean temple...fulfills the Law...just like an defiled unclean uncircumcised heart allows the same...not what comes into that makes unclean but that the already unclean allows the unclean to enter...

Paul's whole treatise concerning the Law is similar to Christ: Those who live by the sword, will die by it, and those who live by the law, will die by it. Galatians 2:19;3:12

all have sinned are cursed...but as the first text states I through the law (see? Gotta have it) died TO the Law...(see? the Law didnt die WE did to it it’s curse) that I might live to Yah...as for the second text the law IS NOT of faith...but you gotta DO IT...verse 13 confirms Yahushua redeemed us form the curse of the Law...NOT THE LAW it remains...to point out our need of Him

Galatians 5:18???

As if the Spirit would lead you to break His Own Law...LOL...of course we are not even under the STATE traffic laws if we do not break any...but if you do...you are under it under arrest even...LOL

It is like you know half your Bible only

you mean the only half that was around when Paul wrote ALL scripture is of Yah and useful for training in righteousness...Yahushua really was just teaching it and demonstrating its results...

:think Deuteronomy 27:26 You like links, have you read CARM on this?

what does any of that have to do with adult gentiles not physically being able to circumcise themselves on the eighth day of existence as per Moses’ Law...being able to be reborn literally to be cut the eighth day as per Moses Law...you see how rediculous that is? Add to that Judaizing Jews were demanding gentiles be cut in order to 1) be saved 2)fellowship with jews...neither of which was taught in the OT....

You are throwing scriptures around like cultists who so badly want them to be their own words and not God, and with no fear that you are mixing the word of God with your fable. YOU are exactly wrong. Everybody but a VERY few Seventh Day Adventists thinks so. Your kingdom is much too small and you've prophetically stepped up into the place of Jesus (which is why VERY few of us should become teachers, getting in the way of the Spirit and playing Holy Spirit). This alone is enough for anyone to completely reject you on TOL: You, Clefty, are getting in the way of the Savior with nonsense.

feel better? All this because you don’t read the OT clearly but as with a veil covering the parts that say FAITH ALONE unto salvation and then obedience BECAUSE one is saved...

The OT is NOT an instruction book on how to get the car...it is an owner’s manual BECAUSE you alread own the car and wish to maximize it and care for it...so it don’t break down...yeah dig?

Please dont ignore this...

:nono: YOU assume the new man isn't new, just two olds placed together. As you are fond of reminding, the gentiles already were part of that. Such WOULDN'T have been new... :nono: You are too committed to a poor reading of scripture. Your elders were wrong.

please look up “renewed vs new covenants”...don’t bother with “My new laws or My upgraded laws...or even My Son’s higher Law replacing My own”...that is NOT in scripture

This is still you trying to be grafted into DYING Jews, not living ones.

LOL good grief...Paul was clear we are not grafted into the branches that were cut off for unbelief...that being the jews...but that we are grafted into the trunk...fig trunks make fig branches...is WHY our fruit is MORE LIKE not LESS LIKE HIM HIS

life is not grafted into death...or fruitfulness into fruitlessness

You are the one with the fuzzy math here. You are stiff-necked. Why is that? Why do we (me included) resist truth rather than simply read it and become changed by it? We are so prideful. It is really hard not to do that on TOL so perhaps it raises our hackles, but that is exactly why I'm trying to use scriptures more than anything else with you. Only God can change hardness. Only He can break through.

by their fruits we will know whose slave you are...your yoke reveals your owner...

Says the man stuck in translations because he can read neither Greek nor Hebrew :sigh: All this posturing... :sigh:

So did you read the ordinance in that photo of that enmity against goyim? You know which was abolished as was the wall between jew and goyim...making ONE NEW MAN...citizen of Israel...

Scripture please.

What? That Law is Grace pointing out our need of a Savior? Who taught and demonstrated IT and how it can be done...Romans 3:20 brings awareness of sin...WHAT GRACE...John 1:14 Word became Flesh full of Grace and Truth

Imagine NOT knowing what pleased Him...or not knowing what to do once saved...yuck...what grace we have a map and list and recipe

Law actually triggers grace Romans 5:20

I'm not against, nor more importantly, do I believe Scripture is against the above.

Good we should be walking in agreement soon...yes KNOWING what pleases is life abundantly...to DO as OUR Heavenly Father WANTS...on earth as it is where I AM...

Gays argue the Law is abolished to please themselves...their lifestyle rebellion of knowing the Law and pleasing themselves instead...arguing I was born this way...well many were born to kill or be good thieves are with skills and talents to LIE...but they were asked NOT TO...because they are practicing to be where I AM and none of that rebellion is in HIS WAY OF LOVING...

Hogwash.

read again what I wrote...rules are not about ability...

I saw a 'law' man scold a child once because he could not balance. That child, held back over and over and over lost for the team. The child could NEVER do that coordinated effort. What Jesus did, was made us awkward children, able to enjoy the game (as far as analogy can take us, they are always limited in scope).

even special olympics are a unique blend of rules and desire then ability...what you call mr Law scolding was wrong to do so He would cause to be able to...I can do all things in that Coach...the analogy holds your example is off...mr Law indeed killed the spirit...prolly mad because the law of biology lost to the law of physics...and yet the rule can not bend for abilities...IS WHY the game is drama...to win poorly is not the game and yet to lose nobly somehow is...

:nono: This is where analogy goes to far. While I do press on with Paul, there are parts of the Law I can never fulfill. The flesh tugs at us, such that Jesus said if you covet, or lust, you've broken the Law. While the Law, indeed is good, we could get so caught up in the worries of trying to fulfill it, that we lose the joy from the frustration, of spending time with our Savior. "Mary has chosen the better thing..."

so what if you dont serve an ace,hit a homerun, score a touchdown every time that is not the game...that would make the game boring...what is the game is TO TRY and watch the CHARACTER be built...the LOVE...Paul admitted as much...but to overcome to run the race complete...fight the good fight...not once focused on rules because it is understood and soon innately done...

Yet you, like that other law-abiding man,

you missed the point of the video COMPLETLEY...knowing the rule is loving the game...loving the game is knowing the rule...knowledge of the rules BENEFITS the play that is GRACE in and of itself...imaging playing a game you dont know the rules...

was miserable and wicked to that child who could not balance. While physical inability is not the same, it really did, in fact, come from his sense of 'rules' (Law) thus is adequate for analogy: He lacked the grace to know that Christ meets our needs and inadequacies.

apples and oranges...physical inability is NOT the same as NOT keeping the rules...one does NOT come from the heart the other does...from a rebellious heart...much rather play with a disabled person that LOVES the game...WANTS to keep the rules do the best...than an ablebodied CHEATER...imagine playing someone who says “oh no that rule was fulfilled yesterday by another better player no need to keep it today...” LOL or “NO NO NO that rule was NOT dispensed to me personally”...good grief...

Agreed/

HalleluYah...then PLEASE do not attempt to slander me as judaizer because I would NEVER demand a beginner player to serve aces immediately just to play with me...LOL

In the OT...NO ONE was expected to cut themselves in order to be saved or even fellowship with jews...and expecting adults to circumcise themselves in the manner of Moses at 8th day of life was IMPOSSIBLE...Peter spoke exactly to the IMPOSSIBLE BURDEN they never had to keep so why expect the gentiles...

That burden was to have to choose to be cut or not...as jews they never had to make that burdensome choice...it was done for them by faithful parents who did it for them to them...is WHY circumcision can NOT save as it is NOT chosen by the baby...is exactly why we reject infant baptism...

These judaizers were placing burdens on adult gentiles they did not carry themselves...even Yahushua called them out on this BUSTED those Pharisees Matt 23:4 Luke 11:46

I had a coach that told me I wasn't good enough to play (baseball at the time). I had no father, so had never played catch, and so the coach was right.
A better coach? Would have spent after hours time with that fatherless child to help him get ready. That coach? Bad coach.

totally agree...but rules still define the american pastime game you play and the player you are to play it...the stats alone drive guys crazy...LOL

No player ever quits after his first strike out...and no fan ever calls him a hypocrite for failing his uniform...just try again...

and yet christians so scared to fail (to end up in hell fire forever I imagine) strike out once and quit...hate the game stoopid rules hate the fans hate themselves...fans too jeer and mock his failure...

“Let’s just change the rules” some compromise to make it easier...thinking they can...forgetting they are not alone and One is willing and able to have them play MORE LIKE Him the 1000 batting average perfect defense no errors super player...

And 'duh' some of them will never make the team specifically because they don't have the ability.

you keep missing that this aint tryouts...or based on your ability...you WANT TO? You are already on the team with the ONLY Coach that can get you to excel to your best...and practice with Him strategy with Him diet WITH HIM...yup even that...work outs AND proper REST...hey lookie there...and you with HIM will manifest what is in your inner ball player heart “I am a player of a beautiful game” your batting average whatever YOU ARE PLAYING COACH NEEDS YOU

Your theology, leaves a lot of struggling people outside of the kingdom.

nope any who WANT to and STICK TO IT...not take short cuts or cheat or change rules or claim “NOT FOR ME”...ANY WHO WANT TO even though they are horrible now...just Follow Him how He played...

I wasn't raised by a drunken father (fatherless, remember?) I rather know, these have a more difficult time. I had a kid in camp that was special assigned to me, because I loved on him. His father had just died and he was very angry at the world. It was a rough 5 weeks but I knew they were right to give me that kid. Poor behavior, yet loved me, and wanted to do well.

BINGO HE WANTED TO...wanted to...no short cuts or shirking responsibilities...

He's an alcoholic, I'm told to this day.

yes the heart is most deceptive...hurt it is even more so

I do know one thing: "Where sin did abound, grace much more did abound."

yup...what grace in a world without structure or certainty or guarantee we have a hope and promise a faith with obedience to Him His way not some fickle taskmaster killing the spirit the love of the game...but One who wants us to trust and obey Him His

Your theology doesn't have a place for that kid-now-man. He is simply 'out' by your reckoning.

ouch and nope...there is a way...truth and spirit...One Who gave us a faith walk home...what grace...

You become unclean? Wash and wait for the sun to set...come home...you are NOT DOOMED

Rules not only protect the game but the player...even more so His rules

:Yet, 1) it keeps out the man mentioned above and 2) requires I keep 'checking back to it, to make sure' as well as make sure I'm taking a day off every 6 days or else!

my yoke is easy my burden is light...he is not at all out...He came not to the saved but the sinner to demonstrate righteousness imputed...gratitude pursues retaining it...hard so hard to recall a day off? Or else? You are not gonna get stoned...hmmmmm no you arent as no more shedding of blood...judgement day is coming vengeance remains His

It works, if using limited. The other does pay more attention for a few moments.

regret distracting you from Pauls “the shadows merely point out more things to come STILL and from Him...UNTIL SIN IS NO MORE and we are restored forever by HIM...is why NOW we WANT to please Him having been saved we WANT to walk as He did LOVE AS HE DID...and the Spirit regenerates us until we die to continue HIS WORK IN US to do His FATHERS WILL

To a degree, yes. You are correct. In life, I actually want to be as my Savior,

HALLELUYAH

and it is hard to sin when you are praying and spending time with Him.

live...sin...repent...live more like Him...sin less...still repent...live even more just like Him...repeat until overcoming enduring to the end...knowing you are pleasing Him

As a parent who wakes up on Father’s Day...your kids are wanting to make for you YOUR FAVORIE blueberry pancakes...do you care if they mess up the kitchen or even err abit on the recipe like forget the salt...”but daddy we know you like blueberry pancakes” wouldnt you forgive the mess and the error of lack of salt...but they TRIED...

Ok but wait what if knowing your favorite is blue berry pancakes they instead make pumpkin muffins which might remind you of an enemy who tried to poison you with one...or if they messed up the kitchen and maybe erred on the recipe for strawberry shortcake...KNOWING YOU ARE HIGHLY ALLERGIC to it and so it’s an abomination to you...”but we love you daddy...thought your allergy was done away with”...lol...

Happy Father’s Day...may your children know what pleases you...and try to do THAT

Thus, I'm a bit rebellious with legalism and 'the rules' because referees absolutely can and do, take the fun out of the game where the 'game' is no longer the focus but the 'rules.'

AGGGGREEEEED...party pooping Pharisees...but happily we have the best Ref...the most fair...knows the game...Played the game pro...loves the game the players too...and wants to show the fans WHY they too should play...

Do we throw out every player? :nono: Just a penalty in football. Baseball? Not a lot errors. You either tag the guy or miss. So in the world of play and rules, the game is the thing. The rules are a background interest, not the game itself. Could you imagine basketball without a basket? You don't really have to tell the kid to shoot for the 'basket' as a 'rule.' It is just part of the game. Those with Christ living in them, make the Law, incidental.

BRAVO LON...having the Christ mind is EXACTLY about the LOVE...His rules merely qualify that love which makes it what it is LIKE NO OTHER...and it becomes natural the particulars INCIDENTAL...not written all over the gym or field but in our inner circumcised hearts and inner jew minds...we eat sleep and breath the game...naturally IN HIM...SPIRIT LED...INTO FULFILLING HIS RULES...that is the Love no other in the world provides...

The first four make it about Yah...no other god asks of us these 4...the last six basically every other god does...certainly every government...ok maybe not the covet one...but you know what I am going at...Paul was greatful the covet law remained...Marx should have too

I dont ask people if they wanna keep a certain ball within a box while hit over a net on one bounce or before while holding a specific racquet making sure not to step over the line when you serve into a smaller box...BORING and horrible...I just ask if they wanna play tennis...the game is known and defines itself...once in awhile rules are disputed but never because once a rule is fulfilled in one set it is no longer applying in the next set...

Nor have I ever heard of basketball players arguing that introducing the 3 point line was added the 2pt shot was abolished...

Taking His Name in Vain. Yep, two different gospels. As I suspected, "Other", you don't even keep 9 of 10 You are in desperate need of grace. The two commands are to Love Him (this is it???) and love one another. Honestly? From what I'm reading, I'm not seeing maturity on either count from you. Continue READING please (and stop making it up in your head):

Jesus isnt even His name...so now too distracted from ever answering if you like the photo of what was abolished in Col 2:17 or if you could read the commandments in ordnance at you with your years of greek...you use anything to avoid it...

Rom 9:7 nor because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children. But, "In Isaac shall your Seed be called."
Rom 9:8 That is, not the children of the flesh are children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for a seed.

Rom 9:11 (for the children had not yet been born, neither had done any good or evil; but that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who called,)
Rom 9:12 it was said to her, "The elder shall serve the younger."
Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!
Rom 9:15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy.

Rom 9:26 And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the nations, who did not follow after righteousness have taken on righteousness, but a righteousness of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, who followed after a law of righteousness did not arrive at a law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because it was not of faith, but as it were by the works of the Law. For they stumbled at that Stumbling-stone;
Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I lay in Zion a Stumbling-stone and a Rock-of-offense, and everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

so was any of this at all presented by scholarly jews who exactly like you were accusing Paul of teaching their Law and customs Moses delivered was abrogated? I mean if it is that clear to you it should have been a slam dunk GUILTY case...instead Paul insisted they could NOT prove their accusations...so was Paul lying? Was Yahshua when He said DONT THINK I came to destroy the law?

Rom 10:3 For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

that is you Lon your own everyday Jesusrest Sabbath

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes.

so when a football player runs to the end of the field that is the end of the game is it? Or NO MORE RULES FROM NOW ON...LOL years of greek never covered that “telos” could mean “goal” NO? You would rather say that the Son ENDED His Father’s Law divided the House...thus the Law being ended what points out sin? We ARE able to LIE? apparently...you steal worship from Him too...kill the Spirit pricking you to follow HIM HIS WAY...lol...yup you demonstrate the Law is ended for you...

What does the Spirit guide you into? What now is HOW we Love Him? The Law ENDED what is written on your circumcised heart your inner jew mind?

Keep reading, chapters 11-16 continue to explain ▲this▲ To ignore Paul, is to ignore scripture and God.

Peter was right about the unstable twisting Paul to their own gain...but at least they didnt use any of this at his trial...they could NOT twist it enough to say that Yahushua ended His Fathers Law...

"If" anyone is in Christ, they are a new creation, the old, has passed away....

right the old law passed away so His Father lied as He said it was a perpetual covenant Ex 31:16...so Yahushua lied claiming it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than a jot or tittle to do so Luke 16:17 because He is NOT the same yesterday keeping Sabbath and today keeping Sunday or every day...Heb 13:8

Ok so well...we are lawless...Christ ended it...nothing to point out our need for a Savior. No need for Grace.

Even the Pharisees agreed with Paul seeing no evil in his message that their Law was abrogated...done...destroyed ended...Acts 23:9 maybe Paul lied to them?

 

[Lon]

right the old law passed away so His Father lied as He said it was a perpetual covenant Ex 31:16...so Yahushua lied claiming it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than a jot or tittle to do so Luke 16:17 because He is NOT the same yesterday keeping Sabbath and today keeping Sunday or every day...Heb 13:8

Said to God, not me. How you reconcile two ideas given in scripture, is how you grasp scriptures. If it is clear (and it is) that the Old has passed away, then you have to grasp how it passed, not simply naysay however you think it wasn't, else you are pitting scripture against scripture by your argument and "Other" makes every Christian already suspicious that you reject some of the scripture in preference to others. There is no sense for you to be on a Protestant Christian board if you cannot discuss things in terms of paradigms concerning the importance of scriptures. We don't believe scriptures contradict themselves, but believe there is a covenant with the whole human race. A lot of promises, like the Law not passing away, was said and written to Jews, thus it doesn't pass away and Jews rejecting Christ, are held accountable. You simply extrapolate a lot of your ideas too far, empathizing that ALL the O.T. is applied to gentile you.

Spoiler

here we go again...

AND STILL NOT SUBMITTED AT HIS TRIAL to prove what you claim...That Paul taught Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...the same false witness jews spread to stir up the people against poor Stephen.
But Paul’s accusers COULD NOT PROVE what they asserted...which is EXACTLY what you try to keep doing here.

is why it’s better understood as RENEW...besides the covenant was renewed but I will put MY LAW...NOT My NEW Law or even My improved law or updated law or My Son’s much HIGHER LAW...nope but just I will put MY LAW into hearts and minds...

catholics claim the Spirit leads one to follow catholic works tradition law...I maintain the Spirit leads one to follow and fulfill His OWN LAW...that is properly as He would know...

thanks so dont just hear about it DO IT...you know what Moses taught from his seat DO THAT Yahushua said...

So what He said abrogates His Father’s law you would have the house divided? How does dont kill vs dont even get mad abrogate the first...or dont commit adultery vs dont lust...or dont swear falsely vs dont swear at all? Its about the circumcised heart the inner jew the clean temple...fulfills the Law...just like an defiled unclean uncircumcised heart allows the same...not what comes into that makes unclean but that the already unclean allows the unclean to enter...

all have sinned are cursed...but as the first text states I through the law (see? Gotta have it) died TO the Law...(see? the Law didnt die WE did to it it’s curse) that I might live to Yah...as for the second text the law IS NOT of faith...but you gotta DO IT...verse 13 confirms Yahushua redeemed us form the curse of the Law...NOT THE LAW it remains...to point out our need of Him


As if the Spirit would lead you to break His Own Law...LOL...of course we are not even under the STATE traffic laws if we do not break any...but if you do...you are under it under arrest even...LOL

you mean the only half that was around when Paul wrote ALL scripture is of Yah and useful for training in righteousness...Yahushua really was just teaching it and demonstrating its results...



what does any of that have to do with adult gentiles not physically being able to circumcise themselves on the eighth day of existence as per Moses’ Law...being able to be reborn literally to be cut the eighth day as per Moses Law...you see how rediculous that is? Add to that Judaizing Jews were demanding gentiles be cut in order to 1) be saved 2)fellowship with jews...neither of which was taught in the OT....


feel better? All this because you don’t read the OT clearly but as with a veil covering the parts that say FAITH ALONE unto salvation and then obedience BECAUSE one is saved...

The OT is NOT an instruction book on how to get the car...it is an owner’s manual BECAUSE you alread own the car and wish to maximize it and care for it...so it don’t break down...yeah dig?

Please dont ignore this...

please look up “renewed vs new covenants”...don’t bother with “My new laws or My upgraded laws...or even My Son’s higher Law replacing My own”...that is NOT in scripture


LOL good grief...Paul was clear we are not grafted into the branches that were cut off for unbelief...that being the jews...but that we are grafted into the trunk...fig trunks make fig branches...is WHY our fruit is MORE LIKE not LESS LIKE HIM HIS

life is not grafted into death...or fruitfulness into fruitlessness

by their fruits we will know whose slave you are...your yoke reveals your owner...

So did you read the ordinance in that photo of that enmity against goyim? You know which was abolished as was the wall between jew and goyim...making ONE NEW MAN...citizen of Israel...


What? That Law is Grace pointing out our need of a Savior? Who taught and demonstrated IT and how it can be done...Romans 3:20 brings awareness of sin...WHAT GRACE...John 1:14 Word became Flesh full of Grace and Truth

Imagine NOT knowing what pleased Him...or not knowing what to do once saved...yuck...what grace we have a map and list and recipe

Law actually triggers grace Romans 5:20


Good we should be walking in agreement soon...yes KNOWING what pleases is life abundantly...to DO as OUR Heavenly Father WANTS...on earth as it is where I AM...

Gays argue the Law is abolished to please themselves...their lifestyle rebellion of knowing the Law and pleasing themselves instead...arguing I was born this way...well many were born to kill or be good thieves are with skills and talents to LIE...but they were asked NOT TO...because they are practicing to be where I AM and none of that rebellion is in HIS WAY OF LOVING...

read again what I wrote...rules are not about ability...

even special olympics are a unique blend of rules and desire then ability...what you call mr Law scolding was wrong to do so He would cause to be able to...I can do all things in that Coach...the analogy holds your example is off...mr Law indeed killed the spirit...prolly mad because the law of biology lost to the law of physics...and yet the rule can not bend for abilities...IS WHY the game is drama...to win poorly is not the game and yet to lose nobly somehow is...

so what if you dont serve an ace,hit a homerun, score a touchdown every time that is not the game...that would make the game boring...what is the game is TO TRY and watch the CHARACTER be built...the LOVE...Paul admitted as much...but to overcome to run the race complete...fight the good fight...not once focused on rules because it is understood and soon innately done...

you missed the point of the video COMPLETLEY...knowing the rule is loving the game...loving the game is knowing the rule...knowledge of the rules BENEFITS the play that is GRACE in and of itself...imaging playing a game you dont know the rules...

apples and oranges...physical inability is NOT the same as NOT keeping the rules...one does NOT come from the heart the other does...from a rebellious heart...much rather play with a disabled person that LOVES the game...WANTS to keep the rules do the best...than an ablebodied CHEATER...imagine playing someone who says “oh no that rule was fulfilled yesterday by another better player no need to keep it today...” LOL or “NO NO NO that rule was NOT dispensed to me personally”...good grief...



HalleluYah...then PLEASE do not attempt to slander me as judaizer because I would NEVER demand a beginner player to serve aces immediately just to play with me...LOL

In the OT...NO ONE was expected to cut themselves in order to be saved or even fellowship with jews...and expecting adults to circumcise themselves in the manner of Moses at 8th day of life was IMPOSSIBLE...Peter spoke exactly to the IMPOSSIBLE BURDEN they never had to keep so why expect the gentiles...

That burden was to have to choose to be cut or not...as jews they never had to make that burdensome choice...it was done for them by faithful parents who did it for them to them...is WHY circumcision can NOT save as it is NOT chosen by the baby...is exactly why we reject infant baptism...

These judaizers were placing burdens on adult gentiles they did not carry themselves...even Yahushua called them out on this BUSTED those Pharisees Matt 23:4 Luke 11:46


totally agree...but rules still define the american pastime game you play and the player you are to play it...the stats alone drive guys crazy...LOL

No player ever quits after his first strike out...and no fan ever calls him a hypocrite for failing his uniform...just try again...

and yet christians so scared to fail (to end up in hell fire forever I imagine) strike out once and quit...hate the game stoopid rules hate the fans hate themselves...fans too jeer and mock his failure...

“Let’s just change the rules” some compromise to make it easier...thinking they can...forgetting they are not alone and One is willing and able to have them play MORE LIKE Him the 1000 batting average perfect defense no errors super player...


you keep missing that this aint tryouts...or based on your ability...you WANT TO? You are already on the team with the ONLY Coach that can get you to excel to your best...and practice with Him strategy with Him diet WITH HIM...yup even that...work outs AND proper REST...hey lookie there...and you with HIM will manifest what is in your inner ball player heart “I am a player of a beautiful game” your batting average whatever YOU ARE PLAYING COACH NEEDS YOU

nope any who WANT to and STICK TO IT...not take short cuts or cheat or change rules or claim “NOT FOR ME”...ANY WHO WANT TO even though they are horrible now...just Follow Him how He played...

BINGO HE WANTED TO...wanted to...no short cuts or shirking responsibilities...

yes the heart is most deceptive...hurt it is even more so

yup...what grace in a world without structure or certainty or guarantee we have a hope and promise a faith with obedience to Him His way not some fickle taskmaster killing the spirit the love of the game...but One who wants us to trust and obey Him His

ouch and nope...there is a way...truth and spirit...One Who gave us a faith walk home...what grace...

You become unclean? Wash and wait for the sun to set...come home...you are NOT DOOMED

Rules not only protect the game but the player...even more so His rules


my yoke is easy my burden is light...he is not at all out...He came not to the saved but the sinner to demonstrate righteousness imputed...gratitude pursues retaining it...hard so hard to recall a day off? Or else? You are not gonna get stoned...hmmmmm no you arent as no more shedding of blood...judgement day is coming vengeance remains His

regret distracting you from Pauls “the shadows merely point out more things to come STILL and from Him...UNTIL SIN IS NO MORE and we are restored forever by HIM...is why NOW we WANT to please Him having been saved we WANT to walk as He did LOVE AS HE DID...and the Spirit regenerates us until we die to continue HIS WORK IN US to do His FATHERS WILL


HALLELUYAH

live...sin...repent...live more like Him...sin less...still repent...live even more just like Him...repeat until overcoming enduring to the end...knowing you are pleasing Him

As a parent who wakes up on Father’s Day...your kids are wanting to make for you YOUR FAVORIE blueberry pancakes...do you care if they mess up the kitchen or even err abit on the recipe like forget the salt...”but daddy we know you like blueberry pancakes” wouldnt you forgive the mess and the error of lack of salt...but they TRIED...

Ok but wait what if knowing your favorite is blue berry pancakes they instead make pumpkin muffins which might remind you of an enemy who tried to poison you with one...or if they messed up the kitchen and maybe erred on the recipe for strawberry shortcake...KNOWING YOU ARE HIGHLY ALLERGIC to it and so it’s an abomination to you...”but we love you daddy...thought your allergy was done away with”...lol...

Happy Father’s Day...may your children know what pleases you...and try to do THAT



AGGGGREEEEED...party pooping Pharisees...but happily we have the best Ref...the most fair...knows the game...Played the game pro...loves the game the players too...and wants to show the fans WHY they too should play...

BRAVO LON...having the Christ mind is EXACTLY about the LOVE...His rules merely qualify that love which makes it what it is LIKE NO OTHER...and it becomes natural the particulars INCIDENTAL...not written all over the gym or field but in our inner circumcised hearts and inner jew minds...we eat sleep and breath the game...naturally IN HIM...SPIRIT LED...INTO FULFILLING HIS RULES...that is the Love no other in the world provides...

The first four make it about Yah...no other god asks of us these 4...the last six basically every other god does...certainly every government...ok maybe not the covet one...but you know what I am going at...Paul was greatful the covet law remained...Marx should have too

I dont ask people if they wanna keep a certain ball within a box while hit over a net on one bounce or before while holding a specific racquet making sure not to step over the line when you serve into a smaller box...BORING and horrible...I just ask if they wanna play tennis...the game is known and defines itself...once in awhile rules are disputed but never because once a rule is fulfilled in one set it is no longer applying in the next set...

Nor have I ever heard of basketball players arguing that introducing the 3 point line was added the 2pt shot was abolished...

Jesus isnt even His name...so now too distracted from ever answering if you like the photo of what was abolished in Col 2:17 or if you could read the commandments in ordnance at you with your years of greek...you use anything to avoid it...


so was any of this at all presented by scholarly jews who exactly like you were accusing Paul of teaching their Law and customs Moses delivered was abrogated? I mean if it is that clear to you it should have been a slam dunk GUILTY case...instead Paul insisted they could NOT prove their accusations...so was Paul lying? Was Yahshua when He said DONT THINK I came to destroy the law?

that is you Lon your own everyday Jesusrest Sabbath

so when a football player runs to the end of the field that is the end of the game is it? Or NO MORE RULES FROM NOW ON...LOL years of greek never covered that “telos” could mean “goal” NO? You would rather say that the Son ENDED His Father’s Law divided the House...thus the Law being ended what points out sin? We ARE able to LIE? apparently...you steal worship from Him too...kill the Spirit pricking you to follow HIM HIS WAY...lol...yup you demonstrate the Law is ended for you...

What does the Spirit guide you into? What now is HOW we Love Him? The Law ENDED what is written on your circumcised heart your inner jew mind?

Peter was right about the unstable twisting Paul to their own gain...but at least they didnt use any of this at his trial...they could NOT twist it enough to say that Yahushua ended His Fathers Law...

right the old law passed away so His Father lied as He said it was a perpetual covenant Ex 31:16...so Yahushua lied claiming it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than a jot or tittle to do so Luke 16:17 because He is NOT the same yesterday keeping Sabbath and today keeping Sunday or every day...Heb 13:8

Ok so well...we are lawless...Christ ended it...nothing to point out our need for a Savior. No need for Grace.

Even the Pharisees agreed with Paul seeing no evil in his message that their Law was abrogated...done...destroyed ended...Acts 23:9 maybe Paul lied to them?

Right, where the law proved nobody could play (by analogy), The Lord Jesus Christ did what we could not do, thus BY HIM the Law was 1) completed perfectly and 2) Exceeded by Him. The Law ever was the lowbar, perfect for intent but very much incomplete. It was never the perfect description of holiness, rather a raising of a bar, thus the man that lives in Christ, truly lives by faith. You think the entire Christian community of Protestants is unholy. You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing against virtually every Christian on the planet from Luther on. Fairly audacious, right "Other?" You are the lone voice crying in the wilderness but labelled, yourself, not as John the Baptist - a part of them but "Other" by your own reckoning. It leaves you 'outside' of Christendom by your own choice. It was a very bad choice when you signed up here. It leaves your voice outside the fold and "Other" than Christendom (Christian). That voice is ever only going to be barely heard and certainly not much of a pip inside of Protestant walls, by your own choice of "Other." It means you will always be seen by the Christian community as 'not' and 'Other' than Christian or Christlike. "Law" is worshipped and you have to be wrong by emphasis. There would have never been a need for Christ. It wasn't just Him accomplishing or 'showing how' but that when He indwells, He makes all in Him 1) capable, by His power and 2) The law a bit lower than the new believer is capable of. "Playing the game" according to Paul's analogy isn't really as hard as the Law. It is rather spending time daily with the Savior, looking for ways (God prepared in advance for us to do) we can love others and serve Him during our days. The law would simply give people 'ideas' on how to accomplish such things in their daily lives and the best I can do is encourage that Christ-like behavior. Thus, love of God and man IS the fulfillment of the law and truly exceeds it wherever law doesn't touch on an aspect (roughly, like when we drive, no cars in Moses' day). John said at the end of his gospel, he could have written a whole library between the Apostles. I know a LOT more about the Law and where it was the lowbar. You still are caught thinking the law is the 'extent.' :nono: It is surpassed. It was the JV as I've repeatedly stated.

We may have gained some ground on the previous but rather, this thread is how we understand the Sabbath so it all comes back to that specific disagreement. I really don't believe it was ever observed in the flesh, but Spirit, thus today, moreso, with Christ living inside, we have permanently entered into a Spiritual rest, not a day of the week that is only observable as flesh. We both know flesh will not inherit Spiritual promises. However then it plays out, it will have to do so, again, upon our grasp and understanding of the scriptures. I believe they are Spiritually observed, alone and period.

 

[clefty]

Said to God, not me. How you reconcile two ideas given in scripture, is how you grasp scriptures. If it is clear (and it is) that the Old has passed away, then you have to grasp how it passed, not simply naysay however you think it wasn't, else you are pitting scripture against scripture by your argument and "Other" makes every Christian already suspicious that you reject some of the scripture in preference to others.

the Old which has passed was a covenant with specific signers...the covenant renewed is with NEW signers...is WHY when the jews killed their Husband that marriage relationship did dissolve by His death...

the MARRIAGE dissolved but not the marriage contract...and then the day came when “I will put MY LAW in their hearts and in their minds”...this is possible since that SAME now resurrected HUSBAND wishes to REmarry a NEW faithful and obedient wife who has MY Law on her heart and mind into a marriage contract He taught and demonstrated signed and sealed with His own blood and death...

Notice how this NEW WIFE with reNEWed CONTRACT has My Law (SAME Law and NOT NEW LAW or Son’s Higher Law) on both her heart and mind as Paul was clear it is to a circumcised Heart and an inner Jew...since the Law is spiritual and he delighted to serve it with his MIND...as does the new bride...having My Law on her heart and mind...

You really think the resurrected Husband wants a wife keeping different rules? Oh you go ahead...you CAN steal kill covet worship falsely...LOL...

No of course NOT...Yahushua is the same yesterday today...forever...

Imagine the first wife...”Hey why weren’t you so easy on me?!!!”

Yup you have divided His kingdom...

There is no sense for you to be on a Protestant Christian board if you cannot discuss things in terms of paradigms concerning the importance of scriptures. We don't believe scriptures contradict themselves, but believe there is a covenant with the whole human race.

you believe one set of scripture ABOLISHED the other...you count the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a COMMON thing and insulted the Spirit of grace Heb 10:29

A lot of promises, like the Law not passing away, was said and written to Jews, thus it doesn't pass away and Jews rejecting Christ, are held accountable. You simply extrapolate a lot of your ideas too far, empathizing that ALL the O.T. is applied to gentile you.

you insist only jews left egypt? Or assembled at Sinai...do I really have to repost all the texts that state it was ISRAEL and believing goyim which followed with them? The SABBATH commandment is THE ONLY COMMANDMENT that SPECIFICALLY includes them in its blessing...but you dare claim it is jewish...Yahushua confirmed that the Sabbath was MADE FOR MAN...not just jews...and yet here you are in your rebellion...”not for me!” Maybe you are not man enough?

Right, where the law proved nobody could play (by analogy),

FALSE...ALL have been called FEW chosen...WHOSOEVER believes shall be saved...is WHY belief includes a desire to play...and a Coach that makes it possible...NOT REMOVE THE RULES...

The Lord Jesus Christ did what we could not do, thus BY HIM the Law was 1) completed perfectly and 2) Exceeded by Him.

yes you destroy a Law fulfilled and by exceeding it...”there are no more traffic laws I fulfilled them yesterday...didnt even drive”...LOL

The Law ever was the lowbar, perfect for intent but very much incomplete. It was never the perfect description of holiness,

FALSE it IS exactly the description of what life IS like where I AM...is why Paul says they ARE shadows...Heb 8:5 Heb 10:1 Col 2:19 you know “on earth AS it is in heaven”

rather a raising of a bar, thus the man that lives in Christ, truly lives by faith.

truly means what? NOT like He lived? You live IN Him you live LIKE Him 1 John says 2:6 you think the Spirit leads you AWAY from fulfilling HIS OWN WILL...or to be LESS like Him? Your figs from an apple trunk NONSENSE...we bear fruit MORE like Him His...live MORE LIKE...LOVE JUST LIKE...in that we fulfill His Will as it is where I AM. Imagine getting to heaven just to steal the gold, kill the animals, LIE like on earth, commit adultery, dishonor elders, covet His throne as Satan did...oh how about when you get where I AM you insist on worshipping another god like you do here, make images, use His name in vain...Hmmm that is 9 wonder what else you will insist on doing which was NOT like it was in the garden of Eden before sin revealed the Law nor as it is NOW here in the commonwealth of Israel or will be in the new earth as Isaiah prophecies Is 66:23...

You think the entire Christian community of Protestants is unholy. You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing against virtually every Christian on the planet from Luther on.

inquisition used the SAME arguement on Luther “how dare you reject what has been understood for 1500 years” oh and even the Pharisees use this reasoning you use now...”What authority!!!!” They squealed and killed Him. You have odd company...

Fairly audacious, right "Other?" You are the lone voice crying in the wilderness but labelled, yourself, not as John the Baptist - a part of them but "Other" by your own reckoning. It leaves you 'outside' of Christendom by your own choice. It was a very bad choice when you signed up here. It leaves your voice outside the fold and "Other" than Christendom (Christian). That voice is ever only going to be barely heard and certainly not much of a pip inside of Protestant walls, by your own choice of "Other." It means you will always be seen by the Christian community as 'not' and 'Other' than Christian or Christlike.

it is a narrow path...

"Law" is worshipped and you have to be wrong by emphasis.

you seek to slander and bare false witness...OVER and OVER again I have stated faith desire to play...faith first then salvation...saved first and then obedient gratitude displayed...faith COMPELS works...His NOT man’s traditions...

Would never invite you to come keep some rules...but to play tennis...you twist and gnash your teeth like a brood of pharisees...

There would have never been a need for Christ.

exactly WRONG...Law points out our need of Savior...you and your NO MORE LAW...invalidates what He did as Law could have been changed prior His doing it or now Lawless...(or as you desperately seek ONE LAW LESS)...there no longer is that which points our sin...how to PLEASE HIM or need of Grace at all...no law = no sin

It wasn't just Him accomplishing or 'showing how' but that when He indwells, He makes all in Him 1) capable, by His power and 2) The law a bit lower than the new believer is capable of.

LOL...so He is incapable of keeping HIS OWN LAW indwelling with us? He has to lower it for us yes? LOL

"Playing the game" according to Paul's analogy isn't really as hard as the Law.

He delights to keep it serve it...hates NOT doing so...but there is a war between His INNER JEW and gentile flesh it is true

It is rather spending time daily with the Savior, looking for ways (God prepared in advance for us to do)

hmmmm you mean what He prepared for us in STONE or before sin even occured? Or what was the ENDzone scoring at the cross?

we can love others and serve Him during our days.

love others how serve Him the same every day...Sunday HAM dinners after power hour church eh? Is that what He demonstrated?

The law would simply give people 'ideas' on how to accomplish such things in their daily lives and the best I can do is encourage that Christ-like behavior.

you mean serve ChristLite soda?...ONE LESS CALORIE Law...lol

Thus, love of God and man IS the fulfillment of the law and truly exceeds it

if it is HIS LOVE yes...never killing abrogated by getting mad...but can we kill as long as we dont get mad about it? NEVER is do not commit adultery abrogated since we can do it without lusting but just casually “no big deal”

wherever law doesn't touch on an aspect

for you that Law doesnt touch gentiles...LOL

(roughly, like when we drive, no cars in Moses' day).

so we can drive LAWLESS since cars were not mentioned...how about we marry 9 year olds and make them wives? NO MENTION OF THAT either in the Laws

John said at the end of his gospel, he could have written a whole library between the Apostles.

maybe THAT is where he rights “Sabbath is no more...we can finally eat cats bats and wombats!!!”?

I know a LOT more about the Law and where it was the lowbar.

Moses lowered it Yahushua raised it back up...didnt abolish marriage...hmmm or did He?...oh yeah is Marriage JEWISH too?...I mean it was in the OT!!! LOL

You still are caught thinking the law is the 'extent.' :nono: It is surpassed. It was the JV as I've repeatedly stated.

infant baptism does not believer make...JV H.S. and JV college play the SAME rules as they play the same game at the same time...

We may have gained some ground on the previous but rather, this thread is how we understand the Sabbath so it all comes back to that specific disagreement.

Matt 24:20 answer that...Yahushua was clear He expected Sabbath times and winter times to continue LONG afte Him here...that the Sabbath is kept was the only commandment He actually specifically instructed prayers for...is why Heb 4:9

I really don't believe it was ever observed in the flesh, but Spirit,

you saying with Yah things are still impossible?[/quote] Paul was clear the law is SPIRITUAL Rom 7:14 delights to keep it with his circumcised heart and inner jew...so yet you claim that this spiritual is NOT reflected as visible fruits to bear witness to Him HIS WAYS?

thus today, moreso, with Christ living inside, we have permanently entered into a Spiritual rest, not a day of the week that is only observable as flesh.

So you do trample the Son of Yah underfoot counting the blood of the covenant by which He was sanctified a COMMON dispensable thing...and insult the Spirit of Grace claiming He cant get us to keep His OWN Law...

Permanently entered rest...you lie AND steal worship from Him? Enter in as He did Who worked 6 days and rested the 7th...you really do expect the promise without the condition...to become a citizen of the commonwealth of Israel without keeping its customs and Laws...contrary to what He demonstrated for us and taught...

You would squat in His House without keeping His House rules?

“Hey Lon could you please stop stealing stuff?” “No way man...that rule wasn’t for me dude”...pathetic...

”How about giving it a rest for one day?” “HELL NO! I rest EVERY day man...”

“Yeah, We noticed that too...”

LOL

We both know flesh will not inherit Spiritual promises. However then it plays out, it will have to do so, again, upon our grasp and understanding of the scriptures. I believe they are Spiritually observed, alone and period.

Got it...the grand finale of you shirking

so according to you we don’t kill spiritually but go ahead and do in our fleshy parts...I mean you just said they are ONLY Spiritually observed...period.

We don’t commit adultery spiritually...but go ahead fornicate with not your wife as long as you do it casually and not lustfully look at her before hand...

Good grief all this twisting scripture and tortured logic to avoid a gift from your Creator a literal day off...but but but..it’s not for me

The inquisition killed thousands in the flesh to “save them spiritually”...abused thousands of boys teaching them “spiritual purity”

You have not only restored the enmity and the wall between jews and gentiles...divided His kingdom between those that had to and those that did not...but now here you have divided the spirit from the flesh...NO regeneration of flesh necessary just Spiritually kept alone period...no need for the daily submission of the flesh...

You counter the OT and NT Yahushua and His apostles all teach the inner jew and uncircumcised heart PREVENTS defiling the outer flesh...yours and of others...that death to self to the flesh to be alive again IN HIM bares VISIBLE fruits more LIKE HIS

Faith without works (His works prepared by Him for you) is dead...take His yoke you are bought NOT YOUR OWN but HIS to do HIS WAYS...whom you obey is YOUR MASTER

Come on Lon...play by the rules don’t imagine you are or don’t need to...

“But in my mind I Am Ref” wow just wow

do you really see what you are saying?

you are not the Ref nor keeping the rules

 

[God's Truth]

I meant the truths about 'Life Reality' which I didn't hear of from anyone but Jesus Christ and for which the world's justice condemned Him to death.

So even in our day, if someone repeats some sayings of Jesus openly (before the world via an international TV channel, for example) as clearly as Jesus does on the Gospel, the world's justice (said of God or else) will not let him live for more than a couple of days.

Fortunately, all Christian preachers who are allowed to address the world via international channels (as the top politicians of the most powerful systems do) know this truth and know also how to be on the safe side. Every Christian preacher just needs focusing on any teaching, he chooses, on the Bible excluding a few natural truths revealed by Jesus.

You say that no man dares revealing openly. I reveal things openly.

Truth be said, I expected your question. From what I hear from you, Jesus, to you as to many others, came just to remind the world of what was revealed already on the Old Testament and not to reveal and teach anything new which is very important for some people (as me) to know. I mean; whatever I learnt from Jesus sayings and cannot be found elsewhere on the bible, it would be considered as a personal opinion only. So if someone couldn't get a truth 'directly' from my all-knowledge teacher, Jesus (as I did) how could he get it from me?!

You are wrong. Jesus came and gave revelation to what the old testament meant, and Jesus reveals himself to those who love him by obeying him.

 

[clefty]

You are wrong. Jesus came and gave revelation to what the old testament meant, and Jesus reveals himself to those who love him by obeying him.

hmmm yes yes...but what the OT meant or means...?

Since you mean by “obey Him” you mean except for the Sabbath commandment the way it was written and as He kept it and instructed prayers that it would be kept into the future. So you teach NOT to obey as He did or taught.

It’s not even one of the least of these...and yet you teach to break it...

 

[KerimF]

You say that no man dares revealing openly. I reveal things openly.

Good news, Sorry, I didn't know you are allowed to address the world via one or more satellite TV channels.

You are wrong. Jesus came and gave revelation to what the old testament meant, and Jesus reveals himself to those who love him by obeying him.

I try viewing things as you do.
How could I obey Jesus while He didn't impose (unlike the OT teachings) any rule to follow other than Love. And, one cannot be true if he loves God or anyone on earth because it is imposed on him (as in an army) to do!

 

[Lon]

the Old which has passed was a covenant with specific signers...the covenant renewed is with NEW signers...is WHY when the jews killed their Husband that marriage relationship did dissolve by His death...

the MARRIAGE dissolved but not the marriage contract...and then the day came when “I will put MY LAW in their hearts and in their minds”...this is possible since that SAME now resurrected HUSBAND wishes to REmarry a NEW faithful and obedient wife who has MY Law on her heart and mind into a marriage contract He taught and demonstrated signed and sealed with His own blood and death...

Notice how this NEW WIFE with reNEWed CONTRACT has My Law (SAME Law and NOT NEW LAW or Son’s Higher Law) on both her heart and mind as Paul was clear it is to a circumcised Heart and an inner Jew...since the Law is spiritual and he delighted to serve it with his MIND...as does the new bride...having My Law on her heart and mind...

You really think the resurrected Husband wants a wife keeping different rules? Oh you go ahead...you CAN steal kill covet worship falsely...LOL...

Strawman. The main thing you don't recognize is that with "Law" written on your heart, you don't have to be extrinisically motivated. It is THE thing you miss. "Other" will have people wondering why you are 1) "Other" than Christian (Christ-like) 2) "Other" than Orthodox (biblical) 3) "Other" than them, purposefully 4) "Other" than trusted teachers and preachers.

You, by "Other" made yourself "Outside" the faith. It means, by your own choice, you've chosen next to no voice at all on TOL (and every other site you chose "Other" on).

Isaiah: "Us/we" You: "Other" Jeremiah: "Us/we" You: "Other" You aren't one of us, by your choice and admission. While you have some good (and some bad) grasps of scripture, you already ousted yourself and became marginalized in your message and participation with the rest of us. It means, frankly, you are and will remain distrusted.

After? The clear disagreement is not by a 'Christian' to the rest of TOL because you, yourself, said you weren't a part nor cared what the rest of Christianity thinks. "Other" will never make a dent in theology nor be more than a pip on TOL. You made a terrible mistake. A terrible purposeful mistake that you will have to live with on TOL. You will always be self-marginalized from main conversations.

No of course NOT...Yahushua is the same yesterday today...forever...

Which means something totally different to "Other" than it does to me, a Protestant, Orthodox, Evangelical, Christian. You ostracized yourself and your message is seen as "Other" than these.

Imagine the first wife...”Hey why weren’t you so easy on me?!!!”

Human rationalizations, the same way you rationalize your adherence to the Old Testament. It isn't the 'same' covenant. Again, you cannot seem to understand differences. No Christian group made up 'new covenant, not like the old' nor "dispensation." They ARE in the bible to your ignorance, "Other."

Yup you have divided His kingdom...

You mean where fathers are against sons? :think: Or not to bring peace but a sword? :think: Sorry, you lose all the way around "other." I trim your longwinded diatribes because they come from "Other" and you have no ability to listen, yourself. In the grand scheme, "Other" simply cannot make a difference on TOL. "CANNOT," Sorry. Your own choice.

 

[God's Truth]

Good news, Sorry, I didn't know you are allowed to address the world via one or more satellite TV channels.

You are confusing. Did you not say no man?

I try viewing things as you do.
How could I obey Jesus while He didn't impose (unlike the OT teachings) any rule to follow other than Love.

Jesus taught how to love. You can't love as Jesus wants us to if you are not obeying him.

And, one cannot be true if he loves God and God or anyone on earth because it is imposed on him (as in an army) to do!

We all have a choice. If you want to love God and God love you, you have to obey Him, for obeying God is love. Don't you know the scriptures?

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

1 John 5:3 For our love for God means that we obey his commands. And his commands are not too hard for us,

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

 

[God's Truth]

hmmm yes yes...but what the OT meant or means...?

Since you mean by “obey Him” you mean except for the Sabbath commandment the way it was written and as He kept it and instructed prayers that it would be kept into the future. So you teach NOT to obey as He did or taught.

It’s not even one of the least of these...and yet you teach to break it...

The Sabbath is a shadow of Jesus. We are to observe Jesus all day every day, not just once a week.

 

[KerimF]

You are confusing. Did you not say no man?

By the way, the world's masters love whoever preach obedience instead of loving their enemies.
Jesus teachings that focus on lawless love don't help at all these masters to build armies ready to invade any weak people and apply the golden rule "Survival of the Strongest"... yes, the 'Fittest' among humans is the 'Strongest'.

Jesus taught how to love. You can't love as Jesus wants us to if you are not obeying him.
We all have a choice. If you want to love God and God love you, you have to obey Him, for obeying God is love. Don't you know the scriptures?
John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."
1 John 5:3 For our love for God means that we obey his commands. And his commands are not too hard for us,
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

I see now. In your view, every time I follow what I learnt from a teacher (at school or university), I am actually obeying him.
In this case, you are right because it happens that Jesus (no one else) is my greatest teacher.

 

[God's Truth]

By the way, the world's masters love whoever preach obedience instead of loving their enemies.

Come on, you don't know that sounds cuckoo? What are you talking about? Jesus says to love your enemies.

Jesus teachings that focus on lawless love don't help at all these masters to build armies ready to invade any weak people and apply the golden rule "Survival of the Strongest"... yes, the 'Fittest' among humans is the 'Strongest'.

There are rules even for war in the Bible.

I see now. In your view, every time I follow what I learnt from a teacher (at school or university), I am actually obeying him.
In this case, you are right because it happens that Jesus (no one else) is my greatest teacher.

Your teachers teach falseness. If you listen to Jesus you would know that they teach falseness.

 

[clefty]

The Sabbath is a shadow of Jesus.

good yes IS A shadow STILL but NOT of Jesus...Paul is clear these are of good things to come...Col 2:19

We are to observe Jesus all day every day, not just once a week.

Fine... but we are also to do as He did =Sabbath as was His custom and keep His Father’s commandments do His Father’s will...which was work six daze and rest on the seventh day Sabbath

it being a perpetual sign between Him and His people...you know the obedient ones who follow Him? Exodus 31:13,16-17

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come,so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a signbetween me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

Notice how it is all of Israel and NOT JUST JEWS...notice too it is HIS day...not given to you to muck around with...making clever phrases and golden calfs like “I observe Jesus EVERY day...not just once a week”

Notice too how He says it three times here...

but you think He was lying or kidding or just pretending...was gonna change later anyways...

 

[KerimF]

Come on, you don't know that sounds cuckoo? What are you talking about? Jesus says to love your enemies.

Did I say otherwise?! But perhaps I wasn't clear. Caesar (today's masters in the physical world) encourage the preaching of obedience. Isn't it true?

There are rules even for war in the Bible.

Yes, there are war rules in the Bible, but God addressed them to the ancient Jews. Then, Jesus came and a real Christian acts like Jesus did. Jesus didn't run away from those who were asking for his death (in the name of God's Law) and He forgave them too.
This happened to me when I was about 30. The elders of a family went to a police station and accused me of a crime for which I should be hanged. Many policemen were sent after me but I wasn't at home. But when, after about 2 hours, I heard I am wanted and knew by which police station, I went to it to discover that the accusation was dropped. The officer there told me that a few persons came and proved my innocence. I am not sure what did happen but it seems it wasn't the time for me to die in God's plan.
Once, someone liked to send me to prison in the desert for a month. Again, after a short conversation with the officer in charge, the accusation was dropped (I felt that the Holy Spirit was talking to the officer not me!). But I also asked the accuser about the reason for which he wanted me be in prison. I didn't expect his reply which was: "I liked to prove you that you do wrong by being good towards everyone no matter who he is. But, it didn't work."
And in every similar situation (there were many), I had/have no reason to run away or hide.

Your teachers teach falseness. If you listen to Jesus you would know that they teach falseness.

I am sorry again for not being clear enough.
I was referring to my various 'scientific' teachers at school and university.

I had no teacher concerning my spiritual life but Jesus.
And I knew Jesus, since I was teen, by reading the Gospel only (leaving all other teachings on the Bible, not said by Jesus, for those who may need them).

 

[clefty]

Strawman.

Hey that’s rude...Like calling out “FIRE” in a movie house and NOT specifying or showing it to the rest of the room...so until you do...this little outburst on your part comes across more like a sore “they cheated!!” to the ref when the defense is reeling after getting scored on...

The main thing you don't recognize is

ok here we go again...maybe scripture this time?

that with "Law" written on your heart, you don't have to be extrinsically motivated.

OH MY...sounds exactly like what the snake said to Eve “ don’t be extrinsically motivated trust your intrinsic understanding as you already know”

In a fallen nature we don’t HAVE to be extrinsically motivated we WANT to be...those of us that our aware of our need for forgiveness and a better way shown...pleading for forgiveness and for works befitting repentance is ALL received extrinisically...the Law on our hearts is extrinisically placed and COMPELS works to testify of regeneration into MORE LIKE HIM and LESS like our former intrinsic nature...by their revealed fruits ye shall know them...

LOL a group of people all claim to have the Law on their hearts and what is the evidence? Just claim LORD LORD? Or is there not an external standard...that the heart is to be circumcised that is from OUTSIDE...intrinsically jewish is NOT understood as a NATURAL FALLEN STATE

We WANT to be motivated by the Spirit’s leading...is why we pray “give us this day and lead us NOT into temptation”...but into becoming MORE LIKE HIM...less like our former self or the world...”Thy will be done”...not what I intrinsically want...

It is THE thing you miss. "Other" will have people wondering why you are 1) "Other" than Christian (Christ-like) 2) "Other" than Orthodox (biblical) 3) "Other" than them, purposefully 4) "Other" than trusted teachers and preachers.

oh yeah but if I have the Law on my heart I am not to be extrinisically motivated...LOL

He warned me persecutions will come for His Name’s sake...not the anglicized one but people do get upset with His Hebrew one...too much jewishness...or Judaizing I dont mind as I am not extrinsically motivated by it...

You, by "Other" made yourself "Outside" the faith.

outside the faith of Yahushua? Hardly...He even kept the Sabbath while DEAD...on the first full day of the New Covenant...just like the ADAMIC covenant...neat eh?

It means, by your own choice, you've chosen next to no voice at all on TOL (and every other site you chose "Other" on).

ah yes classic form of dehumanizing the opponent...”you’re different”...you’re cattle goyim...monster heretic...demon outsider...raping pillaging pagan Viking

the name calling begins when? Winning or losing?

Imagine Luther swayed with your argument or any of the martyrs...or Yahushua...”you’re OTHER” the pharisees screamed...

Isaiah: "Us/we" You: "Other"

Isaiah confirmed Sabbath keeping

Jeremiah: "Us/we" You: "Other"

yup so did he...the irony...I prefer: man’s traditions: “us/we” you: “rather obey Yah and no Other”

HalleluYah thanks...

You aren't one of us, by your choice and admission. While you have some good (and some bad) grasps of scripture, you already ousted yourself and became marginalized in your message and participation with the rest of us. It means, frankly, you are and will remain distrusted.

and you the Pope? Moderator? TOL spokesperson?

After? The clear disagreement is not by a 'Christian' to the rest of TOL because you, yourself, said you weren't a part nor cared what the rest of Christianity thinks. "Other" will never make a dent in theology nor be more than a pip on TOL. You made a terrible mistake. A terrible purposeful mistake that you will have to live with on TOL. You will always be self-marginalized from main conversations.

what was that about not having to be extrinisically motivated...seems like you are the leader of a cult inquisition or Sanhedrin...or just SORE and cant find a way to win so well starts talking trash...

Which means something totally different to "Other" than it does to me, a Protestant, Orthodox, Evangelical, Christian. You ostracized yourself and your message is seen as "Other" than these.

well maybe it’s that Law thingy on my circumcised heart or that inner jew...wide highways vs narrow paths...

Human rationalizations, the same way you rationalize your adherence to the Old Testament. It isn't the 'same' covenant.

Sabbath is perpetual sign...or He lied?

Again, you cannot seem to understand differences. No Christian group made up 'new covenant, not like the old' nor "dispensation." They ARE in the bible to your ignorance, "Other."

fine New Covenant it is then...He puts MY LAW note again NOT MY NEW LAW...or My updated Higher Law...or even My Son’s higher edited law...

You mean where fathers are against sons? :think:

LOL...so in the kingdom fathers and sons are against each other? Or do you forget it was that He came HERE ON EARTH to FIND HIS OWN...you know NOT OF THIS WORLD

Or not to bring peace but a sword? :think:

to cut and seperate the lambs from the lambs? The wheat from the wheat? The saved from the saved? Odd activity in His own kingdom...Oh wait He came to judge a world to seek and to save...cutting like a harvest...fruits more like Him His...sanctified...cut and set aside by His word...that sword in His mouth...

His kingdom is not of this world...it’s from “OTHER”...lol

Sorry, you lose all the way around "other."

I’d rather lose the world than my Soul wont be sucked into your popular hole

I trim your longwinded diatribes because they come from "Other" and you have no ability to listen, yourself. In the grand scheme, "Other" simply cannot make a difference on TOL. "CANNOT," Sorry. Your own choice.

yup...said by every Pharisee or Inquisitional tribune...moderator...Pope...when does the other team start complaining about the field the weather the fans? Or resort to using ad Homs...

Wonder which is quicker for using personal attacks...losing the game or not liking the compelling message

 

[God's Truth]

good yes IS A shadow STILL but NOT of Jesus...

The Bible says the shadow is of Jesus.

Paul is clear these are of good things to come...Col 2:19

That scripture does describe you.

Fine... but we are also to do as He did =Sabbath as was His custom and keep His Father’s commandments do His Father’s will...which was work six daze and rest on the seventh day Sabbath

it being a perpetual sign between Him and His people...you know the obedient ones who follow Him? Exodus 31:13,16-17

Jesus said he worked on the Sabbath.

 

[God's Truth]

Did I say otherwise?!

Yeah, you did.

But perhaps I wasn't clear. Caesar (today's masters in the physical world) encourage the preaching of obedience. Isn't it true?

No, the preachers of the day say we do not have to obey to get saved.
They say we are not to do anything but have faith to get saved.

Yes, there are war rules in the Bible, but God addressed them to the ancient Jews. Then, Jesus came and a real Christian acts like Jesus did. Jesus didn't run away from those who were asking for his death (in the name of God's Law) and He forgave them too.

Jesus came to die for our sins, when he comes again there will be those who will suffer wrath and then the lake of fire.

This happened to me when I was about 30. The elders of a family went to a police station and accused me of a crime for which I should be hanged. Many policemen were sent after me but I wasn't at home. But when, after about 2 hours, I heard I am wanted and knew by which police station, I went to it to discover that the accusation was dropped. The officer there told me that a few persons came and proved my innocence. I am not sure what did happen but it seems it wasn't the time for me to die in God's plan.
Once, someone liked to send me to prison in the desert for a month. Again, after a short conversation with the officer in charge, the accusation was dropped (I felt that the Holy Spirit was talking to the officer not me!). But I also asked the accuser about the reason for which he wanted me be in prison. I didn't expect his reply which was: "I liked to prove you that you do wrong by being good towards everyone no matter who he is. But, it didn't work."
And in every similar situation (there were many), I had/have no reason to run away or hide.

It sounds as if you are from the desert country, maybe Saudi Arabia or something?

I have had instances too where the police were going to do me harm, and times where other people were going to do me harm and mysteriously they were stopped. I believe it was God helping me.

I do want to say that I got taught a lesson on being nice to everyone. God taught me not to be nice but rather be right. There is a sin of being nice to everyone.

I am sorry again for not being clear enough.
I was referring to my various 'scientific' teachers at school and university.

Why did you mention those schools? Did you ever go to a school to learn about the Bible?

I had no teacher concerning my spiritual life but Jesus.
And I knew Jesus, since I was teen, by reading the Gospel only (leaving all other teachings on the Bible, not said by Jesus, for those who may need them).

Could you say that a different way because I don’t understand what you mean.

 

[Lon]

...sounds exactly like what the snake said to Eve “ don’t be extrinsically motivated trust your intrinsic understanding as you already know”

Lying, like the serpent did, or just not very bright. Either way "Other" you are wrong.

LOL

Says "other?"

We WANT to be motivated by the Spirit’s leading...is why we pray “give us this day and lead us NOT into temptation”...but into becoming MORE LIKE HIM...less like our former self or the world...”Thy will be done”...not what I intrinsically want...

You've no idea what it even means, clearly to this point. There is nothing to argue about UNLESS one was "Other" than Christian.

oh yeah but if I have the Law on my heart I am not to be extrinisically motivated...LOL

If you only knew what you laugh at, "Other." :sigh:

He warned me persecutions will come for His Name’s sake...

Says the mark of every "Other" I've met with this insane persecution complex that somehow makes them 'right.' lain: He said by the world, not "Christians" Mr. "Other." Guess again. Confirmation bias is NO way to do theology. It just leaves a lot of others meandering in their flesh.

outside the faith of Yahushua? Hardly...

Yes. It IS what "Other" means and YOU chose it.

He even kept the Sabbath while DEAD...on the first full day of the New Covenant...just like the ADAMIC covenant...neat eh?

lain: Confirmation bias.

ah yes classic form of dehumanizing the opponent...”

:nono: YOU did it to yourself "Other." You did. You chose it as a self-description "Other." You did.

you’re different”...you’re cattle goyim...monster heretic...demon outsider...raping pillaging pagan Viking

Incorrect. YOU chose "other." I did not. However many warts, they are mine. Romans 12:5 You? "Other."

the name calling begins when? Winning or losing?

"Other" is name-calling? I didn't choose it. YOU did, very much against Romans 12:5 "Other."

Imagine Luther swayed with your argument or any of the martyrs...or Yahushua...”you’re OTHER” the pharisees screamed...

:doh: YOU chose "Other." YOU did. YOU did it. To yourself, for yourself. YOU didn't want to be identified as a member of the Body. YOU didn't. YOU chose "Other."
Don't blame your very bad, poor choice, on me. YOU did it to yourself.

what was that about not having to be extrinisically motivated...seems like you are the leader of a cult inquisition or Sanhedrin...or just SORE and cant find a way to win so well starts talking trash...

Nope. I"m simply not "Other." I'm one with a body, however wrong or ugly it might be. I didn't choose "Other." You are the one that did that. YOU did.

well maybe it’s that Law thingy on my circumcised heart or that inner jew...wide highways vs narrow paths...

Right. You don't want to belong to 'all the others' like scripture says. YOU marginalized yourself with your "Other" maverick ways. YOU did.

Sabbath is perpetual sign...or He lied?

No. Rather, it is STILL a sign for Jews. You simply mix metaphors so make a lot of assumptions, desiring to be grafted in, but missing what is not for you or is done another way for you. It isn't lawlessness. That is a strawman.

fine New Covenant it is then...He puts MY LAW note again NOT MY NEW LAW...or My updated Higher Law...or even My Son’s higher edited law...

Note THAT book is to Hebrews. We are simply gentiles getting to read in on something very important to them. We have to be careful lest we think "Our Forefathers" and make the mistake of believing we are Jews. That is, always going ot be the problem. You 'can' read another's mail, but you have to filter how you apply it, or you are just being a Jew.

LOL...so in the kingdom fathers and sons are against each other?

I didn't say it. The Lord Jesus Christ, did. Stop laughing at Him, "Other."

to cut and seperate the lambs from the lambs? The wheat from the wheat? The saved from the saved? Odd activity in His own kingdom...Oh wait He came to judge a world to seek and to save...cutting like a harvest...fruits more like Him His...sanctified...cut and set aside by His word...that sword in His mouth...

Which is why you chose "Other?" :doh:

His kingdom is not of this world...it’s from “OTHER”...lol

:nono: You were given options, not 'of the world' but of Christ and YOU chose "Other." Guess again, or are you just this sloppy? Either way, you can not be listened to for important theology discussion, by YOUR own choice.

I’d rather lose the world than my Soul wont be sucked into your popular hole

:nono: YOU chose other THAN Christian (Christlike) or Protestant, etc. You did. You chose "Other." You did.

yup...said by every Pharisee or Inquisitional tribune...moderator...Pope...when does the other team start complaining about the field the weather the fans? Or resort to using ad Homs...

:nono: "Other" is YOUR moniker. You gave it to yourself. You purposefully chose it, thus do not identify with the rest of us. You even laugh at scriptures from the Savior Himself.

Wonder which is quicker for using personal attacks...losing the game or not liking the compelling message

Neither. It is a response that isn't too harsh, but is reality. You've marginalized yourself by choosing not to identify in some way with the Savior, but choosing "Other" instead. You did. You chose it. Nobody made you do. You did it the day you signed up here by your own choice. It was a bad decision.

 

[KerimF]

No, the preachers of the day say we do not have to obey to get saved.
They say we are not to do anything but have faith to get saved.

But, if I understood you well, you try preaching obedience of God's rules. And a smart Caesar (as top politicians are or supposed to be) can shows many of his rules as being inspired from God's rules or equivalent to them.
I know that there is no one among the top decision makers in the world whose title is Caesar. But wherever and whenever there are imposed rules on the common people, there is one (or more) person who has to play the role of the ancient Caesar in their life.

I am not saying what is right or wrong. I simply present reality as it is... far from the great speeches (religious or political).

Jesus came to die for our sins, when he comes again there will be those who will suffer wrath and then the lake of fire.

I wish I believe like you do because my life would be much easier.
But it happens I can't, even if I want to, believe in magical paths, like:
If I have faith that Jesus is my Saviour, my path to Heaven (eternal life) is guaranteed.

This reminds me:
If one is a real Jew (all his ancestors were real Jews of Moses), he will certainly reign the world with God at the end of times.
If one believes that Mohammad of Quran is the last Messenger of God (Allah, in Arabic), his path to Allah's paradise is guaranteed.

On my side, anything I do which doesn't reflect God's Love, as it is explained clearly by Jesus and lived by Him with a human flesh, will end up to the state of void , the state before Creation.

I have had instances too where the police were going to do me harm, and times where other people were going to do me harm and mysteriously they were stopped. I believe it was God helping me.
I do want to say that I got taught a lesson on being nice to everyone. God taught me not to be nice but rather be right. There is a sin of being nice to everyone.

Anyone is free to follow/observe a 'certain' list about what is right and wrong.

After knowing Jesus, I had no such a list in order to define a certain justice as almost all people around the world have (if not, they should have).
To live God's Love, which I perceive in me, not only I have to be independent, but I have to also deny myself by not judging anyone.
I know that walking on this path is much harder than on any magical one (as mentioned earlier/above).

Why did you mention those schools? Did you ever go to a school to learn about the Bible?
Could you say that a different way because I don’t understand what you mean.

They are like any ordinary schools at which a kid learns whatever could help him gain the daily bread of his living flesh when he will become adult.
So, I am afraid that, because we see Jesus differently, you didn't get I was presenting an analogy (divine teacher for my soul versus earthly teachers for my flesh).

In brief, I see in Him the divine all-knowledge 'teacher' who came to save me from my ignorance about the spiritual realm, God's Realm.

And while almost all Christians are supposed focusing on Jesus Flesh Resurrection, I am attracted more to Jesus Message Resurrection.
Perhaps you may like and have the time to read my recent thread titled 'Jesus Message Resurrection' (if you didn't do it yet):
https://theologyonline.com/forum/politics-religion-and-the-rest/religion/exclusively-christian-theology/2754397-jesus-message-resurrection