Yeah, I understand. Lon, I think, is pretty honest, but is very hard-headed once he believes something. I'm guilty of the same thing so this isn't meant to be a knock on Lon.
THE LORDS DAY CONTROVERSY?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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Yeah, I understand. Lon, I think, is pretty honest, but is very hard-headed once he believes something. I'm guilty of the same thing so this isn't meant to be a knock on Lon.
You said it... the Buddhists, Hindu, Muslims and Jew and all forms of 'formal' Christianity practice doesn't... actually cannot.., accept it because the believers are much more interested in the survival of their living flesh than of their living soul (assuming they have it). But this is not bad. In fact, they (with Atheists) are created to serve life in the material world (by building and destroying) as all other living things are created for; besides the non-living matters that also help in the continuity of life or destroying life sometimes (by natural catastrophes).
Every person is free to consider as holy anything one may imagine. So I have no reason to be surprised by any belief. On my side, I personally don't have anything holy in this world but one; it is the soul that my Creator (The One Will/Power of the Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified, before the Creation, by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit/Ghost) offered me since the birth of my human living flesh (though I perceived it when I became a teenager). And I am ready to sell anything else I have to protect it and let it deserve be accepted, now and after death, in the Love's realm, the Kingdom of Heaven (or God's Kingdom if you like).
You see... I am proud of you. You do and preach what you believe. Not all men are able to do whatever, they believe, is good for them. For example and far from politics, can the President Trump who held high the Gospel in front of the entire world love his enemies as Jesus said very clearly?! He, like any other person, is free to believe in anyone (or no one), and he wouldn't be a deceiver if he practices according to his declared 'real' belief always.
I merely referenced all these other loving people because they fail to understand we are called to a unique specific peculiar LOVE...by a unique specific peculiar God...with His Own Name and culture and history...
free? sure...but must chose the Way of this unique specific peculiar God or not...having chosen Him you forfeit your right to consider as holy anything you may imagine...read up on His history and you’ll see that really pissed Him off...He alone by His Spirit sets apart that which is Holy...which includes the seventh day Sabbath...which you have apparently rejected since you ignore my specific request regarding it...
ok so well you DO choose Him so you will be surprised by this belief as He was much more specific than love love love is all you need...
HalleluYah all praise to Him
right...this path is narrow for a reason...(not many people on it...ya dig?)
Fare thee well...
Lon
Well-known member
They come with your subscription to TOL. Use them to your heart's content.
No. I think you don't understand that the old things have passed away, and the new have come. You are basically a functional Jew and don't know any better. You should, specifically because you are a gentile-grafted-in and not a Jew. Pay attention to your own mail, not mail that is simply there to tell you how we got here. While I appreciate a desire to please God, a misguided attempt is bondage to the old system (thus you and whomever you convince, become functional Jews). If such was acceptable, there would be NO Galatians, NO Ephesians, NO Romans.... :think: ...but there is, isn't there? :think:
Look, Starting a football program needs to do Junior Varsity (JV, Jews). The goal is Varsity. When the Old Testament set the JV schedule, you got stuck there. You will never make the spiritual equivalent of Varsity (New Testament) trying to follow JV rules. They are okay, but not good enough for Varsity. Does that pit God the Father against God the Son? :nono: It pits JV against Varsity.
Yes indeed, "Varsity," junior. I'm ahead of you in the program and you are stuck with the immature. Move on to maturity in Christ. Stop reading your O.T. so much and getting a clue from the New. You'll never make it on the JV because Christ 1) abolished Ephesians 2:14-15 the JV team (it no longer exists, as much as you want to play it). and 2) Established a new man 'from the two.' Read it for yourself. Your only need is to read and understand scriptures. Your argument is not with me, but with God very God. Do as you will. If you want the Savior, even with a hard-head, He will knock some sense into you, if you can't learn obedience by verbal communication. If not, you aren't His but I'm praying for better.
"Tried?" What in the world does that mean? Have you ever fasted? Prayed all day? Made sure to plan the day with Him as the center including a purposeful schedule? Did you list and itemize your prayer concerns including your family, friends, neighbors, work community, city and state leaders and events, your country leaders? Health concerns and comfort for those around those suffering? Talk to Him about your needs? Such could literally take up that entire day each week. What is the sense of me keeping any particular 'Sabbath' day, if it isn't for Him? More? How is doing the same thing you did Saturday, any different than I did Saturday? Did you pray? So did I. Did you read scripture? So did I. Did you ask God to make it holy and meaningful? So did I. About the only thing I did do differently, is I didn't watch TV (didn't have time) and I didn't go to worship, just stayed at home during this national lockdown.
:nono: No mention of the 10. Obedience, as I ALREADY listed, was to a 'new command.' YOU are stuck in the O.T., not Peter on that day. It wasn't that he wasn't a Jew, it WAS that he was preaching Christ and Christ made the 'two' into 'one.' Read the scriptures and know them.
:doh: They WERE Christian JEWS. What they observed, doesn't mean gentiles did. Paul was VERY clear that what he observed wasn't meant to be a 'model' for what gentiles also should do. He was glad, for instance, that he didn't baptize anyone. Why? :think:
(not for gentile Christians, for Jewish ones)
I'd recommend you spend a year, just in Paul's writings and learn. Our Salvation is all the same. Jewish observance, however, is for Jews, who were both Jews nationally and ceremonially. Converted gentiles weren't even allowed in the inner courtyard to celebrate. They were kept from some worship. "IF" gentiles even back then couldn't participate, there is no problem today in telling you that you shouldn't try. You shouldn't offer even a thank offering, on the altar today. It was only available through a priest. Even that is impossible today. You are more and more looking like a 90/100 (9/10) observer yourself but unable to see the huge log in your own eye. You just like rules and like others to not shake up your 'well-ordered' life. You don't like rocking the boat, even though both Jesus and the Apostle Paul were boat-rockers.
You have a few MAD ideas. I do not believe the mark of the beast is what you or MAD thinks it is.
If interested:
Spoiler
In a juvenile manner (junior). 2 Corinthians 5:17
You mean like picking grain on the Sabbath? When Jesus said that it was made FOR man and not the other way around? :think:
(that icon means to 'think' actually 'think)
You think you love like Jesus and are better than the Buddhist and Muslim at love? Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit and you are advocating observing things 'in the flesh' (like my body sitting at home one day a week for no apparent reason, as if I was made for it, rather than it made for me....
lain: )Lying? You knew falsely accusing a neighbor was in there too, didn't you??? :think: Little man, you and I are going to stand before this Great King and Savior and answer for every idle word and flippant accusation. A LITTLE fear and trembling on your part would be acceptable before you judge and make accusation yourself about another man of God. Try to humble yourself. Despite how 'good' you think you are, I probably am doing better, even at 9/10 I don't get drunk. I don't cuss nor swear. I walk back into stores to return $ when the cashier gives me too much. I take care of widows and orphans financially. I try to love those who persecute me and definitely pray for them.... Point? --> You are caught up in the legalism of the Law, rather than knowing Christ, and Him crucified. I'm telling you! If you know Christ, you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. Galatians 5:16 All you have to do, is read your New Testament more, than trying to read the OT and be a Jew.
Was it nice being the perfect child and never getting a spanking, growing up? How is your relationship with them today?
You keep adding that in. Are you thinking of when the Israelites ate their own children? It was atrocious, a curse. There is no 'thou shalt not cannibalize' in scripture. Rather, it is so bad, even pagans don't do it. If, according to you, it isn't forbidden, you yourself living by the Law COULD eat your child, if the Law were the only thing that held you back. Me? I live by a higher calling in Christ. Ephesians 4:1 Philippians 3:14 You go ahead and bring up all the atrocious things your mind dwells on for these conversations. Are you not carnal for it? 1 Corinthians 3:3
"Want" vs enslaved. A man of God will follow Christ. There is freedom, "Only don't use your freedom to gratify the flesh." It is as simple as this. If the Sabbath is given to 'love God and men' (and all of the commandments are), then 'love is the fulfillment of the Law." I did not write this and YOU are not listening. The Spirit teaches this. Follow Him, Clefty!
Because what God does YOU nor I CAN do! Ephesians 2:10 "HIS" workmanship! Do you get it! HE makes you do what He wants when you (I) are remade in Him. More? We are at different stages. God will eventually clean up your (rhetorical 'you') dirty mouth. I don't have to 'play' Holy Spirit. I can encourage you as Christ works on you but I'm just a planter, waterer. Only the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit and I've no control over you, nor need to lord it over you. You've only one Lord and I'm not Him. Do I want you to be more like Christ? With every fiber of my being. Does following the Law make you more Christ-like? :nono: It teaches you where you and I lack. Does it then mean you and I should follow the Law? Only in the sense that we want to be like Christ, it is no longer something we are striving for, but rather to be with and like, Christ. If that is your aim, the rest will happen in due time as He (not we) makes and molds us into His own image. Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
Yeah, but we are talking about keeping the Sabbath. I do, just not the way you do and conversely demand, because you think it the 'only' way.
lain:Even if true, it seems better than your mean judgmental presentation here. John 3:16? :think: Love is a verb and is the fulfillment of the Law. I'm sorry you seem to hate it so much, but it does seem you hate what you are supposed to love... :think: Romans 13:8-10 Do you actually READ your bible, Clefty?
You certainly are advocating the Old Testament and forcing "ten" whenever you get a chance. That, btw, is why it took so long for Seventh Day Adventists to get into the Evangelical council. They were functionally Judaized and not under the grace of God, essentially rejecting the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. They took that correction but if they ever persist in old habits, they can be removed from evangelical fellowship. The evangelium (good news) is that Christ died to save sinners FROM the curse of breaking the LAW.
:doh: These were/are scriptures. Matthew 12:12 Clefty! Wake up!
These works: Ephesians 4:4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.
Simply read your bible!
Like being a little pregnant?
Against, or 'free from?' Clearly he opposed Peter to his face. For what? For practicing Judaism in from of gentiles and leading them into the same (being Judaised). Paul called it a 'false' gospel and said he wished those who preached it would go farther than circumcision. Try reading Galatians 3 or 4 times in a sitting. It'll open your eyes.
Correct, NOT the temple. A synagogue (school) among many others.
ummm...thanks?
Oh so heaven and earth did pass? Cuz that is when He said jots and tittles would last until...
you realize it was not just given to jews...and you are siding with the false witness that Stephen taught Moses was changed...Acts 6:13-14
yes grafted into what? Does a lemon branch grafted into an apple tree even live?...much less change the trunk and root into a lemon tree?
Peter was clear the spirit so NO DISTINCTION between believing jew and believing gentile...because they believed and did the same...
Paul made it clearer...the wall between jew and gentile was in Him destroyed...believing goyim were NO LONGERE foregeiners but FELLOW CITIZENS of Israel...
now tell me...if I move to Japan do I change the rules and customs of Japan because I am moving in having become a citizen? Or am I turning Japanese...I really think so...lol...its a song...
John concludes this matter with Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua...which faith is that Buddha? Hindi? Islam?
Follow Me means exactly that...like children putting on parent’s clothes “Look at me I am daddy/mommy”...
bondage? His burden is easy yoke is light...but still a yoke...I wantR it...no burden...Galatians kept Torah not their former customs from Gaul...Eph were made citizens of Israel...Romans were grafted into the trunk and root...you think they changed the tree? (Ha actually thinking as you do they claimed authority to do so...changing both times and Law)
So tell me are the rules different in the play of the game or does the Varsity have special dispensations from them? “Oh we don’t keep the rules that’s for juniors only” does a junior varsity play a different game when in varsity?...can Varsity carry the b-ball or forward lateral the football...or hide the hockey puck...your silly example proves the rules of the game stay the same...
He abolished a team...the rules of the game? Hardly...He abolished the getting kicked off the team part when you fumble the ball or missed a free throw part...
abolished was the ordinances that seperated the keepers of the rules of the game and forbid the ones that WANTED ON THE TEAM...get it? COACH made in HIMSELF (the rule keeping, practice leader, morale lifter) a NEW PLAYER by ALLOWING new members unto the team...verse 12-13 fellow citizens ON THE TEAM verse 19 so IN COACH there is no rule keeper/not allowed to play...no jew or gentile...but the game REMAINS THE SAME
easy big fella...listen to the Coach read His rules...enjoy His game...not one you made up...
And if you stayed indoors on saturday...well Exodus 16:29 was done...lol...you just don’t claim it...a gift to MAN not just jews...but you reject it...
Peter (that Pentecost they still kept even after His DBR and ascension...) actually reminded them that this game His game is for everybody...imagine that...they had forgotten that and tried to keep it to themselves...silly jews...the game is WHOEVER calls on the name of Yah shall be on the team...WANTING to keep the rules...duh...oh and BTW this was before Paul and the mishandling you do of his writings despite Peters warnings...
“Copy me as I copy Christ” was written by Paul to the mostly gentile ekklesia in Corinth. Doesn’t get clearer than that to a baller who WANTS TO PLAY but yeah to some junk baller in a back woods sandlot he will squabble and argue...”we don’t have to...I dont care”
exactly the wall torn down by Him...now any and all came play His game...jews can’t keep them from grafting in...
you are all over bro...wow...kicking at the pricks of the Holy Spirit does that I guess...they rocked the pharisees boats because they ADDED to the game...you here are trying to REMOVE rules...just cuz they added the 3 point line does not mean they removed the free throw...DUH
will keep it in mind...ironic that you like them Noahides wish to keep goyim from the Sabbath blessing made for ALL man and not just jews...
Yup...many many times the OT reminds ONE LAW for native and foreigner alike...so come NT that had to be reminded...
ONE LAW...as in the Sabbath commandment the ONLY ONE that specifically mentions the blessing was for the foreigner too...
ahhh yes...all made new...so we can steal covet lie? You seem to forget or ignore that a NEW CONTRACT must be written even demonstrated before it is signed...
A testament is declared PRIOR the death...so what He taught and as He lived prior His signing in blood and sealing in His death is the NEW TESTAMENT...is what is NEW...and the first day of this New Testament age was a Sabbath just like the first full day of Adams covenant was...neat eh?
You think signing a NEW CONTRACT with a varsity football player allows him NOT to keep the rules of the games? LOL
ok...so think...everything was MADE FOR MAN at creation...which do you reject? Lord of the Sabbath means as it does with Lord of London or Lord of the Rings...that which gives them authority and validity is what they are Lord of...why would they destroy the very thing that proves their power?
The Sabbath was made for man...not just jews...why would any reject a day off?
Do you also reject woman? She too was made for man...
He was clear LOVE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU...not to love as the world does...You think you love like Jesus and are better than the Buddhist and Muslim at love? Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit and you are advocating observing things 'in the flesh' (like my body sitting at home one day a week for no apparent reason, as if I was made for it, rather than it made for me....
No apparent reason would be your fault...if it was because He did and asked us to...well that is the game
oh my...
You done? Feel better?
Legalism is trying to do the law in order to be saved...that is not faith first is it?
We keep the rules of the game cuz we already KNOW we ballers yo...yeah dig?
Your triggered histrionic rant completely missed what I was getting at...you had claimed only 4 commandments were listed to be kept...I was asking if the other commandments were no longer necessary as they were NOT listed...
Some rules of the game are so obscure even PRO players forget to use them but some remember...
mom sleeps Dad and I are blessed in our relationship...HalleluYah
again you miss it all...eating unclean is NOT the norm and if it happens make yourself clean again...like wash wait for sunset...my child is NOT FOOD...I am to eat clean food...some however do cannibalize...as for me and my house we choose the Lord...
but not as you were called to walk as He walked...JUST AS...even to the cross no compromises..
goals are determined by which rules you keep...junior and varsity PRO even
rather we follow Yah not the traditions of man...love is correction
easy big fella...settle down...Love AS HE LOVED US...is inclusive of Him giving us this rest healing on this day and demonstrating it is still binding...He even instructs prayers be said that Sabbath be kept into the future...Matt 24:20 as He expected both Sabbath time and Winter time to continue long after He was gone...
Goodness...again YOU are now IN COACH playing HIS GAME...your blemish is that you insist He did away with the free throw line when He gave us the 3 point line...
So yes BE LIKE CHRIST...just like...living as He did...His faith...which was not Torahless...
Made into His image means we behave move live as He did...not LOOK LIKE HIM
fine keep a day Holy the seventh after six of work...we are done here...Coach will see your play and fans your fruits...Yeah, but we are talking about keeping the Sabbath. I do, just not the way you do and conversely demand, because you think it the 'only' way.
He is the only way...His game His rules the way He played...
“But but but He played a perfect game so we don’t have to...” LOL pathetic...no fun to play with either...or even watch...
“Copy me as I copy Christ”
right..cuz when you Love...you’re in the ZONE playing the game like it is natural...you fulfill ALL the requirements...keep the rules beat the defense score every point...LOVE BABY...everybody cheers
So which game does the world play...they claim they love too...and love their way...does that fulfill His GAME?
When you are in the zone you aint foulin either...hurting nobody...fulfilling all dem rule...but for the Love
Well well well...clap clap clap...you do get it...the good news is exactly that: you are NOT kicked off the team when you miss a shot or foul...imagine that...we should LOVE THE GAME EVEN MORE...as now rules keep us on the team says COACH
Keeping Sabbath is not just for jews...despite their best attempts to false witness that Acts 6:13-14 again...
Isaiah concludes that one day every new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath all will come worship in His House of prayers for ALL nations...
I do and see unity with the Father Son and His Bride...you however started this with junior vs varsity...Father’s Law vs Son’s Law...New vs Old
But yes it is Lawful to do good on the Sabbath...
But your another gospel another Christ teaches another way...another law...
He once said He hated YOUR Sabbath as it was full of iniquity...seems to mean He means it HOLY...
Can you please show me where He made it UNHOLY? Cuz all I see is “do My Father’s Will”
yes choose ye this day whom ye will serve...
You say you keep the Sabbath...fine...just do it! Work six rest the seventh keep it Holy...
You were saying Varsity didnt have to play Junior rules...hope your varsity play is according to the tutor’s instructions...
oh my...Paul actually asked Peter
WHY he compels gentiles to live like jews...(when he was mingling with them as gentiles do?)
BECAUSE everyone is justified by faith in Yahushua and not by works or what we do...like avoid gentiles...not eat with them
yup to how by Law we inherited the promise and continue in it as the tutor taught...or are you also now claiming that once a student graduates they can counter their tutor and do other than what was taught?
Does a slave once he becomes a son go contrary the Master’s wish? Disobey his Father’s house rules?
Live like a brother of Christ...in accordance to our Father’s will...to be done on earth as it is in heaven...
Yes believing goyim met crowding the synagogues Sabbath to Sabbath to also hear Moses as James expected...
now that they were citizens of Israel mindful of Father’s house rules...grafted into the tree...as part of His family...even biologically the grafted branch must match the tree...
Oh and varsity plays by the same rules as junior...
Game on! Enjoy...
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Lon
Well-known member
As far as 'days' they were simply reckoned with the calendar. A couple of months that year were shortened. It caught them up with a lunar rotation. Next, those who did not convert, kept to their days on their calendar which did not coincide with the Julian calendar (just like your birthday is on a different day, every year) except every few year where "Sabbath (in the case of Jews) incidentally fell on "Saturday." When Julians celebrated Saturday, the rest of the world not on the Julian calendar, celebrated a different day, every year (like your birthday) as a Sabbath or whatever. They would not have had the same 'weekends,' not until they converted except as they occasionally coincided. Whatever day they were on, simply became "Monday, Wednesday,Friday," etc. So if they were on a 'new day' when they converted to Julian, it became 'Thursday' or whatever that year. So, the Sabbath only every seven years or so (Jews shifted their calendar every few years as well, they were not hung up on a corresponding Sabbath, but likely celebrated two in a week that year), coincided with "Saturday" and another year on "Sunday" because they celebrated a 7 day week, like the Gregorian, but the number of days in the year 365 1/4, would have shifted differently with the Jewish which had fewer days in their yearly calendar. If you follow, regardless of succession of sun rising and setting for all of us, it was obviously different. In addition, as I said, think of the Jew today: In the U.S. He will celebrate in four days, in Australia, five (not the same day, though supposedly 'Saturday.'
I'm convinced you will get this. A Saturday worshipper? :nono: That person is bull-headed and cannot be bothered with basic math (sadly)
Lon
Well-known member
Which means or proves what? Not what you think it does NOR should you be arguing against scripture! :doh: 1 Corinthians 5:17
Read chapter 7 Stephen showed he knew the OT better than them and they killed him for it. The 'false' accusation was about Jesus. They rejected Him. Make sure you don't. Jesus fulfilled the Law. If He did not, you are still in your sins and not saved by grace. Ephesians 2:8-10 is VERY clear, you cannot be saved observing the laws or 'attempting' to keep them.
You don't know much about gardening, but John 15:5
:Yet you want everyone to 'become a Jew' to be 'one.' There was never and is never a need to be a Christian in your idea of following Him: "Simply become a Jew" is your mantra and gospel and Christ died for nothing. Do you wonder than any oppose you? You are undoing the very work of Christ with your supposed gospel. Read Galatians and Hebrews.
...undoing the very work of Christ. People could become proselytized before Christ came. You are attacking the foundation of Salvation by grace.
Such is an awkward sentiment. As much as I might want to be Japanese, it is never going to happen. I'll always be a foreigner, even if I was born there. Similarly, not even a Jew can be a Jew today, they rejected Christ and yet have lost the priesthood. They CANNOT keep the Law any longer and are held to breaking it.
There is no 'Christ' nor Christian in your advocacy. You are just preaching Judaism and I'm not nor ever will be a Jew.
Again, flitting about wherever your imagination carries you. A new creation, new-naturally keeps the Law because it is written upon his/her soul. The Law simply tells you where you may need to shore up. I do not need to beat you into not blaspheming His name. Pastor's caught in adultery have forsaken treating younger women as sisters in the Lord. No believer is going to do something wrong with his sister. People in the flesh do something wrong with their sister.
Of course and he caveated: "...as I follow the Law..."
Yeah, right, no. He said "Follow me as I follow Christ." Will you divorce your wife? Moses and the Law allowed it. Jesus said not to do it and that God hated it.
You know, I don't have to tell my kids not to murder. Sorry you have to do it every year. My kids follow Christ "as Paul did." You? Stuck being a Jew, following because you are lawless. I have it written on my heart so I don't have to whip anybody. Every Christian loves the Lord. No longer do they need you to teach them 'know the Lord' because they know Him from the least to the greatest.' (Hebrews 8, 10)
Different. Yep, 'special' dispensation.
Correct. My kids are all old enough now that I don't give rules. They treat each other with respect and help around the house when they are home from college. Difference? When they were immature they needed rules. Now? Internalized. They may bump against a few rules I used to have, but it doesn't bother me. They have, in themselves, a desire to please us and God. It is enough. I'm not sweating the small stuff anymore. They need to walk with Jesus and my 'rules' aren't much help to them at this stage. They'd become a hindrance to their need to interact on their own, with their Savior, to please him.
:doh: if you are a Jew.... if so, go ahead and divorce as Moses allowed. Me? I'm following Christ. Despite what you think, there is a difference. I'm never going to be a Jew.
Then go ahead and divorce. Jesus said 'no.' You still think there is no difference between JV and Varsity? :think: You've a lot to learn. I'll not be playing JV ever again. Knock yourself out.
You don't even know your Bible. I'll not take advice from the JV nor the JV coach. I've graduated. You have not and simply want to be a Jew, losing Grace. :nono:
No, I said I probably have kept it better than you, even though you law-slam it all over the place. Kids under tyrants don't grow, nor internalize. Kids with it written on their hearts do.
:nono: They stopped sacrificing AND stopped divorcing, for instance. You don't pay attention. Go ahead and 'try' to be a Jew. I'm going to be and stay a Christian in Christ.
You mixed your basketball metaphor with football, just like you mix specifically Jewish (ONLY) laws with Christian directives. You don't know the difference between basketball and football in the same manner. You don't get it, because you never paid attention. You simply like rules and orderliness imposed extrinsically rather than doing the work of instilling intrinsic values. It likely reflects in your strict parenting style as well. It may work if you want to be a Jew, but 'sparing the rod' is O.T.
You missed it: Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. You simply do NOT pay attention! Why DIDN'T you read the very next verse???
Lon said:
lain: "Rocking the boat" is "all over?" You are lazy.The law was good. It is simply there for 1) LAWBREAKERS (did anybody REALLY need to tell you not to kill? Or is it written for killers? 2) Is written to give parameters for behavior. What parameters? Love. If you love someone, you are not going to rape them, steal from them, kill them or otherwise harm them. THAT is why love is the fulfillment of the law. What kind of love? The Bible gave it: To treat others as relatives, to love them better than yourself. Love: Unselfishly committed to another's higher good.
This kind of jargon troubles me. It carries the weight of not really being a new creation. When Jesus told Nicodemus he 'must be born again' it was not a command. It was a condition of the Spirit that ONLY the Spirit could accomplish. Likewise, a new creation is fully and only made by the hands of God. If you are not one, you are not a Christian nor belong to the Lord. ASK God to make you a new creation if you don't get it. 2 Corinthians 5:17 "IF"
No. You are drawing confirmation bias conclusions with little investigation or verification to your premise. The sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Jesus both did good on the Sabbath and allowed his disciples to work (pick grain) to feed themselves on the Sabbath. Why? Because they were 'with Him.' Being with Jesus is 'sabbath' every day of the week. The Sabbath was a token rest that is fulfilled, permanently, in Christ. Hebrews says so. Someone extrinsically following Christ cannot keep the Sabbath merely by staying home Saturday.
"LOL" you think varsity and JV play by the same exact rules. Well, you don't know football, and in the same manner don't know you aren't supposed to lust after another woman, divorce, or 'be not drunk." Moses allowed a certificate of divorce 'because of hard hearts.''
AND He said it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath (or ANY day of the week, for that matter!). :doh:
Because it is self-centered. It is 'lawful' to do good on the Sabbath.
Paul said it was better 'not to marry.' While I am married, you do not 'have' to be. You are 'free.'
Yet, without a regenerate life, that is all you or anybody is capable of, no matter how hard you try to keep the law. It is all in the flesh.
Right. Cart before horse. Without being a new creation, there is no 'keeping the law' because the flesh and the spirit are at war with one another.
You do know that 'ballers' is basketball?
Yet a blanket was lowered for Peter to eat. It was Peter who said "surely not." Answer? "Don't call what is clean unclean." You, clefty, call what is clean 'unclean,' because you are a Jew. I'm not. Don't try to make me a Jew. Being a Christian is enough.
He corrects those He loves, but love isn't necessarily 'correction' every time, and there is a fine line between correction and punishment.
You preach against Grace. There is no 'easy' but a need to strongly admonish you to know the Lord. I cannot 'whip' you into Christ. I cannot 'discipline' you into Christ. You meet Him and are changed by Him or you are not His and no amount of admonishment can change that.
And so, according to you, no four year old can be a Christian by analogy. Christ made SURE that four year old could by doing it! I was seven when I came to Christ.
Yes it WAS! You THINK Jesus needed to hear the Law??? That His nature wouldn't keep Him in obedience to His own nature? When He puts His own nature in a human being, changing them, they 'need' the law to keep from killing people??? :noway:
Did you think it meant growing a beard? It is more than just behavior (extrinsic) it is value (intrinsic) of a new nature.
True.
Er, ▲I thought you were "done here." ▲
lain:
Right Divider
Body part
Lon
Well-known member
Because you and I would be held to the Law and we'd be found wanting.
no jots or titles no wise pass until all is fulfilled...all is NOT fulfilled...nor is heaven and earth passed
ummm...there is NO 1 Cor 5:17...did you mean 1:17 where he says not with fancy words...but preaching the gospel can be with actions right? Ya buddy...there is no 2:17 how about 3:17? “If anyone defiles the temple of Yah Yah will destroy him...for the temple of Yah is holy which temple you are.” So according to the NT or Son’s commandments how exactly to we defile the temple? Oh right just like the OT...SAME LAW...for Native and Foreigner alike. Or did you mean chapter 4:17 where Paul sends Timothy who he circumcised to remind them of his ways in Christ...you know follow Me...as He said...copy me as I copy Christ Paul said...
Hey how about 6:17? Did you mean this? “But who is joined to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT with Him” but you figure that one Spirit has people doing different things different ways different times right?
yup Stephen even said the church was in the wilderness back then...imagine that...but you would have the church change the rules?...
Right these slanderous lying jews claimed Stephen taught Jesus would destroy the temple and change the customs Moses delivered. Luke was clear those jews were FALSE WITNESSES because Stephen did NOT teach that as Jesus did NOT do that...
He would be unworthy as a sacrifice...
I still am...is why I need Him to help me get out of sin...never sinless but to sin less
Is why He kept the law...and said to do so...and Spirit comes to those who obey...
the WHOLE OT was clear on that...it was NEVER righteousness by works...always faith first...by faith
Even with Israel...first saved out of Egypt...(a mix multitude of believers too BTW)...and then given the Law...
By faith Abraham...I mean read Heb 11...faith first...
The commandments are known as the ten words the decalouge and translators had a hard time with Biblical Hebrew as it was only present past tense...so they struggled to make something relevant TODAY with future imperative “THOU SHALT”...a better translation would be “you do not” so “you do not steal you do not kill you do not lie” etc...even better would be to understand it as with Me or where I am you do not etc...
The 10 commandments are like an owner’s manual...you dont follow these instructions in order to GET THE CAR...you follow them because you already HAVE the car...you're the owner duh...
Judiazers however were teaching something NEVER TAUGHT in the OT...that circumcision SAVED...one had to be in order to be saved...never did...
Oh and the 10 were NOT JUST GIVEN TO JEWS...but 12 tribes of Israel and foreigners who believed as they did and were saved from Egypt and followed them...ONE LAW for native born and for foreigner..
so you gonna graft a carrot to that vine stock are ya? OF COURSE THE BRANCHES BARE THE SAME FRUIT AS THE VINE...in other words DO AS HE DID...duh double duh
And with Paul’s grafting INTO the trunk...it is true you can NOT mix apple branch with orange trunk...they have to be most similar...same family...
You would even have the grafted branch CHANGE THE TREE...?
Not at all...since the Law was given to Israel and believing goyim I expect the SAME...you want the PROMISE? But not the covenant rules...
Peter was clear the Spirit saw NO DISTINCTION between believing goyim and jews...because if a believing goyim brought swine meat to the potluck that WOULD BE A DISTINCTION as would demanding Sunday worship was ok...you notice the difference too yes?
simply become His...thus CITIZEN OF ISRAEL and mind the house rules...HIS HOUSE RULES...dont defile your temple...because you are saved and have inherited...go and sin no more...
Your another gospel another christ has Him abolishing the law...and do what thou whilst as if the Spirit would lead you into NOT keeping His Will...the Law...
He destroyed that wall that separated jew from gentile which WAS NOT OT LAW to start with...ONE LAW for both...and NOW again and in Him neither jew nor gentile...but ONE
yup and after He came they could believe in Him now too...
ummm grace was in the garden of Eden already when instead of Adam and Eve He killed to make skins to COVER them...sound familiar?
biologically foreign true... but as a citizen of Japan you would have to keep the same laws as other citizens...
if biological jew is a thing they can be that...and still keep their law...but yes that would mean the reject Him
well there is a NEW understanding regarding that...but I digress...
I am not MAD...I do maintain salvation only in Him and His way...because IN HIM it is a twofer...we are saved...thus keep the law...
Perhaps your histrionics blinds you to what I am writing...perhaps a veil? Because it is you who teach as lying jews did and still do...that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...Acts 6:14 You claim the FALSE WITNESS He destroys temples...
I was asking you what is the faith OF Yahushua? You will indeed DO THAT as that is what is written on circumcised hearts of the inner jew...obviously NOT yours...
not sure what law is written on your heart instead...nice and loving maybe but NOT HIS...the Christ mind serves the Law...as He did...the flesh remains weak in need of prayer discipline and forgiveness...never sinless just in Him sin less...the law remains to point it out...
Paul said both...lol...oh and Christ is the law...so well BINGO...you do AS HE DID and you’ll fulfill the Law...
He even said dont be mad cuz you be killer...or dont lust cuz you’ll be an adulterer...but see how the LAW REMAINS?
if you say you love Him and do not do as He did you are a liar...
junior varsity often plays WITH varsity...but you are trying to tell me they have different rules on the same field in the same game? LOL
so when you go from junior to varsity you can carry the basketball...forward lateral the football...hide the hockey puck? LOL
bravo...up until now you are like the pagans or Buddhists or muslims...
which God? The jealous One that wants His Will to be done? Doubtful
They need to DO AS HE DID and asked them to do...because they are citizens of Israel and can NOT change its rules...
ummm no...if you are on His team you are no longer a jew and if you miss a shot or make a foul...you are NOT kicked off the team...that part is done away with...just stay IN DA COACH
no circumcised heart there I tell ya...you got divorce on your mind though
the rules for the game remain the same as JV actually play with Varsity in the same game...you’re not playing COACH’S game...His Rules...His Way
graduated eh? So now you can play lawless? Against what your tutor taught you? Contrary to the game and the COACH? Wow...
Grace was in the OT is why Israel His people WANTED to keep the Law...duh...they knew they were saved and thus out of gratitude they obeyed...
Do you even understand that sin offerings were for UNINTENTIONAL sins? You sin willfully there is NO SACRIFICE!!
Of course He gave them grace...when repentant for breaking the LAW...
Your greasy grace has you skidding all over whenever whatever with NO STANDARD...certainly NOT His
“I keep the Sabbath” He claims...”the way and when I want to”
you do like to talk about yourself...
Sabbath remains made for man...not just jews...or your rejecting uncircumcised heart
what does any of that have to do with Peter reminding the Pentecost crowd that His “game” is for EVERYBODY...gentiles are included...
good Pharisee...sandlot is actually baseball but is used for informal play
again and again given to Israel...Sabbath specifically to man...the stranger in their gates even...not just jews...
know that JV and Varsity play by same rules in same game...
LOL...trying teaching either sport without rules...even the intrinsic values that you think you instilled ARE NOT OF HIM...
ok Freud...
now who is mixing what...
Ok so which OT law of commandments and decrees separated jews from gentiles? As OT was for both...remember even Sabbath for strangers...specifically includes them...
So which ones separated them? Because those were abolished
What was abolished were ORDINANCES later jews devised to keep gentiles from worshipping...these were abolished and now from two believing jew and believing gentile He made ONE...one citizen of Israel...ONE LAW just like in the OT...joined together grows into a holy temple in the Lord...and you want to say there are two sets of laws or we don’t have to follow the rules?
Lazy is thinking we just need grace...
sounds like Buddhism muslims Hindu catholics all about common good...be nice to each other is all...give peace a chance...
So when do we get to 1) I AM there is no other 2)dont make any...by corrupting yourself with images and imaginations {like Think NOT but well gonna imagine the law is done away with...grace alone...) 3) use my Name YAH usefully tell all
Oh and yes 4) work six days take a day off...
Do you notice how these FOUR absolutely singles out our Creator? The other six all gods have a form of...every nation understand dont kill steal lie...but these first 4 are unique...no other people or nation had any of these four...one of them is HOLY made so by Him EVEN BEFORE SIN
It troubles you because a testator demonstrated and taught His last will and testimony the New covenant...NO CHANGES prior and certainly none after...Is why Paul kept Sabbath and told believing gentiles to come back next Sabbath not during the week or the next day...
what is new is the Christ of it...He is the goal of the Law...that is new to the jew and certainly to the gentile again welcomed INTO fellowship...and YES the Spirit re makes the both into a new born spiritual body...the Spirit guides INTO keeping the Law...NOT away...into MORE LIKE HIM...NOT less...ALL THINGS ARE NEW...Christ mind does that to jew and gentile alike...
first full day of the Adamic covenant a Sabbath...first full day of the NEW covenant...the day after He died...SABBATH again...
right means what to you that you reject it? The whole planet and woman was made for you...reject those too? Do you even listen to yourself?
A car was made for you what you going to do crash it? A cake was made for you...crush it!!
Sabbath was BEFORE SIN...what GRACE...HE knew we might need to rest from sweat of our brow work...
In fact AFTER the fall He cursed animals man the ground all that He made...EXCEPT TIME...its Sabbath...nice eh?
Yup made for man...given by Yah
picking grain was ALLOWED despite the pharisees protests...of course He did good on the Sabbath and so what THAT DESTROYED IT?
So we can clearly see that Pharisees are going to defend the Sabbath...right?
Acts 5:20 Gamaliel’s advise to pharisees wishing to KILL was to leave the apostles alone as it might by of Yah...
YOU REALLY THINK PHARISEES WOULD AGREE TO LEAVE THEM ALONE IF THEY WERE TEACHING THE SABBATH WAS DONE AWAY WITH? LOL
you literally can not have a seventh day rest on any other day...what are you some time bending magic man? NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT...
Heb 4:9 actually borrowed from the Hebrew Sabbath as in a Sabbatismos...a SABBATH KEEPING...it could easily have been written in greek to rest every day...but Sabbath being seventh day after six it meant something more specific...not just rest every day or even a “Jesus rest” but it said a SABBATH KEEPING...
we cant make the Sabbath holy...it already is...and we can’t keep the Sabbath...it keeps us...
so you are saying JV and Varisty keep different rules playing the same game on the same field at the same time? LOL
Of course I know its more than just murder or actual adultery...you are just PROVING the LAW remains...and Yahushua did indeed restore marriage as the ideal not divorce...but here you are trying to divorce this from that and that over there...
Hard hearts were given divorce...but nothing replaced Sabbath...a day of rest...how hard is that?
what does that have to do with Lord of the Sabbath deriving His authority validity and power from the Sabbath...NO OTHER GOD HAS IT because no other god created...made for MAN not just jews...
free to serve my Master His way...Paul understood it was better to be married...as bishops should be...two become ONE...doing the same thing at the same time...familiar?
regenerate to what from what? MORE LIKE HIM LESS LIKE YOUR FORMER SELF...less of the world more of His ways...you know like Sabbatismos...
uh oh...you are agreeing...the mixed multitude was saved first then given the Law and now with Him fulfill it...SAME LAW JV and varsity
yup...but any athlete keeps the rules because he is one...
wut? Peter was clear the unclean goyim were ready to hear the gospel to regenerate INTO CITIZENS OF ISRAEL who have a diet plan...they WANT it...as it is healthier actually...
ALAS Christians defile their temples...
Let no one judge you the keeping of new moons...as if goyim keep His calendar...but the body of Christ...they do remember His Holy day and days...
Sabbath was GRACE before the fall...rest before it was needed...to be IN CHRIST is to follow Him...His Way...
This Coach will help any to score from anywhere...you sure do like talking about yourself...
salvation is in the hearing...do this and live...love me keep my commandments...do My Father’s will...yes yes yes He does work in us...to keep the Law naturally...duh...kinda like it was before sin was pointed out by the Law...before the fall...when there was no killing no stealing no lying no adultery oh and YES A SABBATH...lol
a natural law keeping nature...like in Eden...I SAID THAT...it is MORE than what we look like but how we behave and LIVE like...including what He does...Sabbath...
You say you keep the Sabbath...fruits will tell...work six rest seventh...keep it Holy...
you sure missed a lot...is ok...Coach says JV graduates often talk big...but got no game...still don’t love the game...Er, ▲I thought you were "done here." ▲
some change times and Law...think they know a better way...
Right Divider
Body part
Lon ,
You've either missed my questions or ignored them so I'll just outline my argument and see if you'll address it.
Your claim is that the weekly cycle was interrupted by the calendar change. Let's look at this assertion closer.
The first instance of the Julian-Gregorian calendar changeover was in 1582 by a papal bull of Pope Gregory. At that time only 5 nations adopted it: France (at least most of it), Spain, Italy, Poland, and Portugal. Notice these were nations that were highly controlled by the Catholic church at that time. That means all but 5 nations in the world kept using the Julian calendar. Their weekly cycle when the 5 nations changed, stayed exactly the same. No interruption of anything, calendar-wise, occurred.
Now, your assertion is that entire days were lost at the Julian-Gregorian changeover. A day is a 24 hour time period, and a very specific physical event happens every day: one complete rotation of the earth. I don't know what day of the week in 1582 the change was made but let's just assume it was on a Monday as the exact day of the week is immaterial to my argument. That means the next physical rotation of the earth would result in a Tuesday. In all those countries that didn't skip the 10 days of that calendar changeover the very next day was Tuesday of the same week with 0 days changed on their calendar. In the 5 countries that made the calendar changeover that year the calendar skipped 10 days.
Now explain to me what happened. What happened to those people in Spain, Poland, Italy, France, and Portugal? Did they go to sleep on Monday night and then not awaken until Thursday of the next week? Was their night of sleep, assuming a bedtime of 10:00 pm Monday night and a rising time of 6:00 am on Thursday of the next week, 248 hours long? Did they go into some type of suspended animation? Remember they, according to your argument of 10 lost physical days interrupting the weekly cycle, were unconscious of time for 248 hours, Or, did the earth experience a phenomena where those physical areas of the earth somehow rotate at 10 times the speed of the rest of the earth? Or the rest of the earth rotate 10 times slower? Something like that had to happen for 10 days to be lost in your theory for a day is created by 1 rotation of the earth? And your claim is that the weekly cycle was changed during every 11 times there was an adoption of the Gregorian calendar from 1582 until Turkey finally adopted in 1926/1927? Why is there no historical record of massive geological violence when the nations rotated at different speeds compared to the rest of the earth? You must explain this as a day is defined by 1 rotation of the earth and your claim is someone who went to sleep on a Monday in a nation that changed their calendar lost 10 physical days before they awoke on the next rotation of the earth.
Sorry, Lon, but your argument defies reality. It is based upon a major fallacy as proven by the rotation of the earth.
Yes... losing a few days but retaining the week cycle was an issue as even Protestant countries rejected Gregory’s calendar as too catholic. England held out to about 1725 is why our founders had two birthdays in their lives...
But the greater insult lies here:
The Quartodeciman controversy arose because Christians in the churches of Jerusalem and Asia Minor observed The Lord's Supper on the 14th of the first month (Nisan (postexilic), Aviv/Abib (preexilic)) no matter the day of the week on which it occurred, while the churches in and around Rome changed to the practice of celebrating Pascha (Easter) always on the Sunday following Nisan 14, calling it "the day of the resurrection of our Saviour". The difference was turned into an ecclesiastical controversy when the practice was condemned by synods of bishops.
[4]
“As the bishops of the West did not deem it necessary to dishonor the tradition handed down to them by Peter and by Paul, and as, on the other hand, the Asiatic bishops persisted in following the rules laid down by John the evangelist, they unanimously agreed to continue in the observance of the festival according to their respective customs”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism
Namely in establishing First Fruits or Easter as it came to be known by a deceptive power.
Thus over 200 years later and long after the first century ekklesia (which was already in the wilderness), the changes were made official.
“Constantine, however, supported the separation of the date of Easter from the Jewish Passover (see also Quartodecimanism), stating in his letter after the First Council of Nicaea (which had already decided the matter):
"it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul ... Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way."[2]"
And
"It was, in the first place, declared improper to follow the custom of the Jews in the celebration of this holy festival, because, their hands having been stained with crime, the minds of these wretched men are necessarily blinded. ... Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries. ... Let us ... studiously avoiding all contact with that evil way. ... For how can they entertain right views on any point who, after having compassed the death of the Lord, being out of their minds, are guided not by sound reason, but by an unrestrained passion, wherever their innate madness carries them. ... lest your pure minds should appear to share in the customs of a people so utterly depraved. ... Therefore, this irregularity must be corrected, in order that we may no more have any thing in common with those parricides and the murderers of our Lord. ... no single point in common with the perjury of the Jews."[3]"
And
"It was, in the first place, declared improper to follow the custom of the Jews in the celebration of this holy festival, because, their hands having been stained with crime, the minds of these wretched men are necessarily blinded. ... Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries. ... Let us ... studiously avoiding all contact with that evil way. ... For how can they entertain right views on any point who, after having compassed the death of the Lord, being out of their minds, are guided not by sound reason, but by an unrestrained passion, wherever their innate madness carries them. ... lest your pure minds should appear to share in the customs of a people so utterly depraved. ... Therefore, this irregularity must be corrected, in order that we may no more have any thing in common with those parricides and the murderers of our Lord. ... no single point in common with the perjury of the Jews."[3]"
You can be sure seventh day Sabbath keeping was now officially transferred to Sunday as well by those wishing to change both times and Law.
Christendom remains divided on this calendar thingy.
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Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
Lon
Well-known member
Look at it from the point of sin. If we are not guilty, there is no need of a Savior, yet we know we all have sinned and fall short, and Christ did not. Paul said even gentiles, without the Law, were a law unto themselves, in the sense that we all know what sin is, specifically, because we've all transgressed the righteousness of God.
Lon
Well-known member
It doesn't matter. First, you cannot jump a calendar of days, simply by 'thinking it is still Friday.' The Jews simply jumped and were not caught up on 'Saturday' and in fact thought it was pagan (why they didn't change). Whatever day "Sabbath" was, was not ever, "Saturday" and only occasionally, did it 'happen' to be on Saturday that year. This stuff isn't hard, it is just very hard for Seventh Day Adventists who cannot do basic math. This is all very basic stuff. "Saturday" and "Sabbath" never meant the same thing AND Jews were never hung up on days, specifically because THEIR calendar was adjustable. They didn't care about Julian days. They would have celebrated Sabbath on whatever day it fell upon. It isn't a fallacy, it is fact, you just cannot think outside of a Julian calendar and seem incapable. Don't call YOUR incapability someone else's fallacy :nono: You are correct, for the Pope and a few countries, they woke up the next day. So and what? Did it suddenly make it "summer?" :nono: They simply tried to reckon the calendar. What you fail to understand, however, is that there was no similar reckoning by other nations. Sabbath was simply 'the seventh day.' There is a speciall attachment to "Saturday" with a sense that it is the rule, and norm. :nono: Days are random and 7 does not, in fact, fit into 365 (why your birthday is on a different day year to year). So, AFTER conversion to Julian, the days are consecutive, but it is dumb thinking that Saturday is better, for some completely random day, than Sunday, or whatever other day. They do not, nor ever will synch. If you follow that, great. If not? Oh well, the rest of us think those trying to mandate are immature into silly legalism in ignorance. If not you? Great. If not, your 'mission' or whatever silly thing, is in vain. Intelligent godly people will not bow to such random impositions.
Lon
Well-known member
Yet He abolished the Law, in His flesh.
lain: You, yourself, miss all kinds of jots and tiddles, being WAY more interested in the OT, written not to you, but to Jews, which you are never going to be. Oh, you sure "one-upped" me!
lain: Grow up, little man....and stop trying to judge for the Lord Jesus Christ. You are a nobody in comparison. Less than a pip. Stop thinking more highly of yourself than you ought. .
With the above offering? :nono: You need Him because, your pride increases your sin rate. You are a stuffed shirt, flitting from site to site trying to impose 'Clefty, the great!' rules.
People who love, do. People who don't? "Try." It is a pathetic attempt. When you finally get off your high horse, fall upon grace. He opposes the proud and you, sir, are haughty.
.
Yeah, I'm convinced you've never read a lick of Hebrew in your life, and cannot, at present do so.
Yeah, arrogant. God opposes the proud. You've little to be proud of and are full of all kinds of 'Lord it over' and dictating to make yourself feel important. I actually have a few years of Biblical languages under my belt. Go dupe someone else. You arrogantly entered this thread thinking you were the cats meow. God hates a haughty look, or didn't you read all your Old Testament? You really haven't put me in my proverbial place, but you certainly are guilty. God hates this kind of garbage. Can you help yourself, might proud one?
And?
Proud of yourself yet? Why DID you enter this thread? You thought you were the cat's meow and are finding yourself wanting, thus going off on assertions and bluff?
:think: Why? It is irritating, I find it childish, but you have to live with yourself. I don't. If you really belong to Him, you have some discipline coming your way. You are haughty and a bit rude, a bit childish. These are the things of God.
You do know, if you are a fig branch, grafted into an apple tree, you don't produce apples, you produce figs. YOU, sir, are not a Jew. Fact.
You even 'try' to use ancient language as if it is on your side. Sorry. You really don't know languabe but are certainly welcome to 'goyim' your way through bluffs. It adds nothing (nadda) to your credentials and actually shows as "compensating for a lack" most times.
Sure, you are reading your understanding 'into' the text. It means nothing to me. It is just "Clefty thinks" at this point. I'm not really impressed with what "Clefty thinks" and genuinely believe my theology education was better than yours is at this point.
See, 'petty' would be mentioning something of your use of 'christ' here with a small c, as if He didn't mean anything to you. It is a mistake, likely, nothing for me to harp on, but you are too juvenile. If you belong to Him, He will correct this. If not, your spirit is mean, arrogant, incorrigible, and in need of Him. Whatever you 'think' you have in keeping the OT, you just aren't doing as good a job as you need to be doing to preach this kind of thing. The MAIN thing I'm seeing in thread is NOT the love of the Lord Jesus Christ but some childish adherence to laws, without actually walking the talk yourself. You are preaching one thing while ruining your message with your own poor behavior on TOL! :doh:
:nono: I posted the verse: He abolished the Law and its penalty. You? No verses here, just you asserting stuff you believe. I already don't think "Clefty knows or preaches the Bible" so continuing NOT posting scripture just confirms my conception of you at this point.
Should it? What is "Clefty" getting at? :think:
: "Thus sayeth the pontiff, Clefty, judge of men."
lain: You are such an insecure child.Great, so I have to meet Clefty at the door, before I get to talk with the Lord Jesus Christ about my eternal destination
lain: You are such a child! ....More of Clefty playing judge of men's salvation and eternal destination where angels and Lon fear to tread, but Clefty feels completely comfortable, even though every jot and tiddle I've read says 'no'....
lain:So when you are told not to judge, but judge.... I see.
lain: No, they don't. They scrimage. You really are a child. This is just an immature attempt to 'one-up' me again. Why? Stop emoting in the flesh. This stuff is terrible and YOU are the one trying to hang milestones around necks. Simply stop and grow up a LOT more before trying to jump into conversations like this. You are WAY too immature to be of much help scripturally, theologically with this kind of offering. It isn't blessing me, other than allowing me to review the scriptures I know to be true. You? How can you be blessed when most of this is the Clefty show from your side with very little of Jesus shown? :think:
uh oh...someone was encouraged...Yet He abolished the Law, in His flesh.
so this is why you lie now, steal worship from Him, kill the Spirit, worship with false worship? Makes sense...the Law for you is gone...abrogated...done away with...Spirit leads you into what? There is no law...how do you know sin? There is no law?
You make Paul a liar, Law still points out sin he delights in it and thanks Yah that through Christ he can serve the law...
You make Yahushua a liar, “think not” He instructed but you do...Sabbath was a Law He specifically expected to be kept long after He had ascended...”Pray” He instructed that it be kept as He intended Sabbath times to continue long into the future...oh and winter times too...or did He abolish that too?
So what was abolished? The enmity...which is contained and prescribed in ordinances...
You seem to be a fighting man...sort of...you realize the military word ordnance guns/ammunition is a variant of the word ordinance...being pointed at or shot directly at is a specific enmity...
We have federal law, state law, and then county city town village local ordinances...very specific detailed violations are tickets
Alcohol violations, curfew, drug, against person, public peace, school property, motor vehicle tickets...
All liable to give one a specific ticket with summary and further instructions...
So back to what the citizens of Ephesus were learning...jews had created added ordinances to separate themselves from gentiles like even adding a physical wall at the temple in jerusalem to keep non jews OUT...despite what the OT said about a house of prayer for ALL NATIONS...
All these were jewish enmity toward goyim (also refered to the Colossians as the handwritten requirements wiped clean) the ordinances the decrees, the regulations, social, dining, marital, etc which were abolished in His flesh making of the two, both jew and gentile, a new creation...a citizen of Israel...not lawless...holy just and good and remains according to Paul’s standard...The Law which still points out to sin for everybody...not just jews...
LOL...as if only jews sinned...
the irony the Sabbath was the only commandment given to ISRAEL and the mixed multitude which specifically lists the stranger who is to receive it...
You do realize the Sabbath was instituted long before Jews yes?
Is man and wife jewish? MARRIAGE...like the Sabbath was instituted at creation...not just for jews
Sabbath was even “counted out” prior to receiving the law with the falling of Manna...
And this heavenly bread did NOT fall on jews alone...but all 12 tribes and those believing goyim following from egypt
Over and over again ONE LAW for native and foreigner ALIKE
Sadly JUST LIKE YOU by the time Yahushua came around Jews thought it was all just for them...
He had to teach them otherwise...Paul too...Peter oh and James as he concluded the Jerusalem council in Act 15 with the expectations winters would continue...LOL...just kidding...James intended that the crowding goyim would keep hearing Moses preached every Sabbath...
Oh btw...4 things were IMMEDIATELY required for goyim to fellowship with jews...no sexual immorality no food offered to idols, no meat strangled or with blood...now do you suppose NOT strangling a swine or dog would make it appropriate for synagogue potlucks? Or draining all the blood makes clean cats bats and wombats...with magic hats?
ALL FOUR regulations were ALREADY listed in the OT for believing goyim to follow in order to hear Moses preached every Sabbath...
Hey you could just clarify be providing the correct text you wished to share...I merely offered what you might have intended as there was no 1 Cor 5:17Oh, you sure "one-upped" me!
Let no man judge you...but the body of Christ...
https://www.cogwriter.com/news/churc...the-holy-days/
choose ye this day Whom ye will serve...falsely?
as the pagan loves? The Buddhists? The muslims? He said love AS I have loved you...JUST AS...not with a new deviation cleverly manufactured by man’s traditions
when is the messenger attacked? when the message is what?...
what you are convinced of has been shown in error...yet again...
feel better?...can we make it less about me maybe and back to Him His Way as He taught AND demonstrated the New Covenant way prior His death signing it with His blood and sealing it with His death...
and so by Law you are inheritors of the Promise...citizen of Israel...unless like some here even more MAD than you insiste it is NOT for them...something about being Lawless or something...
...things of Yah...set aside...made Holy...please show were Sabbath is NO LONGER HOLY
Even in beginning Eve ADDED to the word of Yah claiming they were not to TOUCH...but that is NOT what was instructed...
You now do the same adding and removing from His Word...
Even in the beginning He cursed everything He made...the land, the animals, man...but NOT time and its Sabbath...
first you would destroy His Immutable Eternal Law...and now you go after biological laws...
Most fruit trees are compatible within their species, but many are also compatible within their genus. That means that Prunus species such as plums, nectarines and peaches can be grafted onto the same tree. Apples and crabapples are often grafted together to create a tree that can self-pollinate and prolong the apple harvest. Another common "fruit salad tree" is created when many types of citrus are combined on a single rootstock.
The fact that grafts between incompatible trees fail, often immediately, is widely understood, but the mechanism behind this failure is harder to see. At the cellular level, two trees are attempting to communicate and merge their vascular systems to make a single structure. No exchange of DNA takes place, but the rootstock does require similar cells for a healthy connection. The bud forms a callous on the cut side almost immediately as the rootstock's xylem cells are at work attempting to grow over the bud. After several weeks, the bud is completely surrounded by the rootstock's tissues, and the nutritional transport systems begin to join. If the rootstock finds tissues that it cannot communicate with because of cellular or chemical incompatibilities, the graft fails and the bud dies from starvation.
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/can-gr...her-60466.html
So the closer we are to HIS FAMILY the more likely our fruits will MATCH...neat eh?
Because He lied when He said the Sabbath was made for man...and He actually meant just for jews?
ONE LAW...for native and foreigner ALIKE...
“Here are they that don’t keep the abolished Law of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua except the Sabbath”...here’s your theology
show me where HIS LOVE invited those He loved to Ham dinners after Sunday church power hour...then football...lol
if He abolished the Law there is NO PENALTY
Why even KILL THE SON if the Law can be abolished? You render His sacrifice USELESS claiming the Law is an unnecessary changeable NOT IMMUTABLE NOR PERFECT...
as if scripture helps your inner uncircumcised rebellious non inner jew...
think on this...when spilt blood had His wrath PASS OVER...they didnt even have the Law at the time...WHAT GRACE
think too of blood spilt again on PASSOVER...what grace...BTW passover isnt even a SIN OFFERING...lol...is why Grace is STILL NEEDED...
Were the LAW abolished THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR GRACE...you remove Law there is no longer sin to point out as sin is THE TRANGRESSION OF LAW
a child of Yah working out my salvation IN HIM...you should FEAR HIM...One Who can and will destroy disobedient Souls...: "Thus sayeth the pontiff, Clefty, judge of men."
Disobedient to an abolished Law?...lol
Yup jewish false witness is what you follow...as they claimed Stephen taught Jesus changed the customs of Moses...Luke was clear...he did NOT teach that is why it is false witness
lest ye become like children...obedient or disobedient to a parent without rules? Or a parent who loves with correction...to a Higher Standard than the world evenGreat, so I have to meet Clefty at the door, before I get to talk with the Lord Jesus Christ about my eternal destination
correction and reproof ALL SCRIPTUE IS GOOD FOR THAT...the irony when it was written there WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT just the OLD LAW .......More of Clefty playing judge of men's salvation and eternal destination where angels and Lon fear to tread, but Clefty feels completely comfortable, even though every jot and tiddle I've read says 'no'....
Someone better tell them ALL THAT WAS DONE AWAY WITH...lol
So when you are told not to judge, but judge.... I see.
We are to judge the church the world will judge angels even...did I not say you are gods? Elohim mighty ones judges...
It is NOT “do NOT judge” you carnal worldly flesh...but “judge not lest you BE judged”
By their fruits...works...we will know them...
We ARE to judge according to the scripture its Law...weed out wolves and false teachers...throw out offenders to Satan that they might be saved
If you love Him...keep what? NOT HIS FATHER’S WILL?
do they play different rules? Score different ways different points? No fouls cuz the rule book has been thrown in the wood chipper? Hardly and come game time talented JV plays WITH VARSITY...by NO RULES? LOL
So you picking up your ball and running home? More name calling ad homs...cuz why? No other options?
You are FAR from what David and Paul understood as Thy Law is a DELIGHT...
And NOT a milestone...more like a yoke...easy and light...which shows everyone who I am owned by...a benevelont Master who feeds and stables me AND GIVES ME A DAY OFF...may I serve Him His WAY His Law...
You like a cow in india is wandering around the streets...yes FREE it’strue...NO YOKE...even worshipped...but...not really the faith OF Yahushua...
Cute emojis though...
Oh and as for the small “c” Christ I typed once...
You do know He was not born to a couple named Joseph and Mary Christ yes?
I mean to say Christ is not a proper name...
nor was Jesus His name...as He was not English but Jewish...went to Synagoge on Sabbath as was His custom...ya dig?