Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large

[Granite]

The problem with the other side of the argument is they wish to remove ALL guns from law abiding citizens and do not have a satisfactory answer in regards to keeping them out of the hands of criminals.

I've rarely if ever heard anyone arguing for the confiscation of all guns in the U.S. This is the fantasy flip side of folks convinced it'll eventually happen, and anyone crazy enough to believe one of these two scenarios deserves to be locked in an elevator with their counterpart.

And that's not the "side" I have in mind. Self-restraint, discipline, sanity, maturity...these things aren't too much to ask for. I don't often say this, but I agreed with Obama's comments. We do need to have a discussion and yes, no other developed country acts this way.

We need to ask why we're like this. We need to ask why this keeps happening.

What's wrong with us?

Why are we so terrified of even having this conversation?

 

[bybee]

I've rarely if ever heard anyone arguing for the confiscation of all guns in the U.S. This is the fantasy flip side of folks convinced it'll eventually happen, and anyone crazy enough to believe one of these two scenarios deserves to be locked in an elevator with their counterpart.

And that's not the "side" I have in mind. Self-restraint, discipline, sanity, maturity...these things aren't too much to ask for. I don't often say this, but I agreed with Obama's comments. We do need to have a discussion and yes, no other developed country acts this way.

We need to ask why we're like this. We need to ask why this keeps happening.

What's wrong with us?

Why are we so terrified of even having this conversation?

We are polarized and that is, in part, the result of Obama's pathetic lack of leadership on the home front.

 

[Granite]

We are polarized and that is, in part, the result of Obama's pathetic lack of leadership on the home front.

That's seriously the best you can do?

My God.

My God but that's just infuriating.

 

[bybee]

That's seriously the best you can do?

My God.

My God but that's just infuriating.

Well, since you are such a thin skinned judgmental little twerp I am not surprised.

 

[Granite]

Well, since you are such a thin skinned judgmental little twerp I am not surprised.

You're peddling garbage, bybee. Usually you're better than this.

Yep, it's all about Obama. Clearly Obama. All his fault. Yep, yep, yep. Because we haven't had this problem until he showed up. Because we can just cop out and blame him for everything.

Total, utter, asinine idiocy. What even possessed you to somehow blame for him for this--even in part? Seriously. Why do you think like this?

 

[Stripe]

I've rarely if ever heard anyone arguing for the confiscation of all guns in the U.S. This is the fantasy flip side of folks convinced it'll eventually happen, and anyone crazy enough to believe one of these two scenarios deserves to be locked in an elevator with their counterpart.And that's not the "side" I have in mind. Self-restraint, discipline, sanity, maturity...these things aren't too much to ask for. I don't often say this, but I agreed with Obama's comments. We do need to have a discussion and yes, no other developed country acts this way. We need to ask why we're like this. We need to ask why this keeps happening.What's wrong with us?Why are we so terrified of even having this conversation?

You're a walking contradiction.

Here we have the very reason for guns to be available, yet you advocate greater restrictions on them after a scenario played out where the regulations were followed and no good was able to be done.

You either endorse the right to bear arms or you don't. Which is it?

So far, all you have is whining.

 

[Desert Reign]

i think in this age and reality, the cat is out of the bag with guns. the criminals and crazies and extremists will have and use guns on innocent folks anywhere at anytime. all we can do is match them or pray, duck and run -

Sadly, I think you are right. You have to learn to live with it. Perhaps one way to help you feel better is to get statistics on how guns have saved lives. This might at least make you feel better about it.

Overall though, I'd have to agree with Granite that the ultimate solution is not to have guns. Of course it is easy to say that being a citizen of a country where guns aren't generally allowed. But each country is different and you can't just say because we don't have guns that this would work for you as well. For example, if you accidentally stray onto someone else's premises there is a great chance that you will be dead if the owner doesn't know you, which would reduce the amount of household robbery.

But in my country that wouldn't happen either because people seem to live closer together and property is not quite as sacrosanct as it in the USA. Which is why I think PJ is right, it's part of your culture and you have to learn to live with it. Sure, it might help by having guards in places where there will be people gathering but I suspect this would be of limited use to you: guns introduce greater randomness into your society, greater insecurity and it will get worse the more your population grows.

 

[fool]

I've rarely if ever heard anyone arguing for the confiscation of all guns in the U.S. This is the fantasy flip side of folks convinced it'll eventually happen, and anyone crazy enough to believe one of these two scenarios deserves to be locked in an elevator with their counterpart.

It's usually the Europeans that advocate that as they don't have guns and seem to think it works for them.

And that's not the "side" I have in mind. Self-restraint, discipline, sanity, maturity...these things aren't too much to ask for.

Well, you're not going to get sanity from insane people for starters.....

I don't often say this, but I agreed with Obama's comments.

You monster!
But seriously, I agreed with what he said after the Aurora shooting, we need to make sure our laws are being enforced and dovetail together the way they should. Crazy people aren't supposed to have access to guns.

We do need to have a discussion and yes, no other developed country acts this way.

We are a nation of immigrants in a way that no other nation is.

We need to ask why we're like this.

We are a nation of immigrants.

We need to ask why this keeps happening.

Crazy people.

What's wrong with us?

Crazy people.

Why are we so terrified of even having this conversation?

We will never be disarmed because we are a nation of immigrants. We are people who survived seeing their family put on the train to the gas chambers by their own government.
We are people who saw the drug cartels kill their whole families.
The NRA was founded to provide guns to blacks in the South so they could defend themselves against the Klan.
We are, in short, people who came here so we wouldn't get murdered where we were. We will never go back to being helpless.

 

[Granite]

Sadly, I think you are right. You have to learn to live with it. Perhaps one way to help you feel better is to get statistics on how guns have saved lives. This might at least make you feel better about it.

Overall though, I'd have to agree with Granite that the ultimate solution is not to have guns. Of course it is easy to say that being a citizen of a country where guns aren't generally allowed. But each country is different and you can't just say that because we don't have guns that this would work for you as well. For example, if you accidentally stray onto someone else's premises there is a great chance that you will be dead if the owner doesn't know you.

But in my country that wouldn't happen either because people seem to live closer together and property is not quite as sacrosanct as it in the USA. Which is why I think PJ is right, it's part of your culture and you have to learn to live with it. Sure, it might help by having guards in places where there will be people gathering but I suspect this would be of limited use to you: guns introduce greater randomness into your society, greater insecurity and it will get worse the more your population grows.

Very well put. As for us learning to live with it, well...we haven't, and we seem unable or unwilling to. After Newtown I said that if a school full of butchered children didn't change anything, absolutely nothing would. And I was right. That wasn't enough. Nothing at this point will ever be enough. We're too far gone.

 

[chrysostom]

before they take away our freedom

they will have to take away our guns

 

[Granite]

It's usually the Europeans that advocate that as they don't have guns and seem to think it works for them.

It works in plenty of places. Our culture makes sweeping confiscation completely impossible.

But seriously, I agreed with what he said after the Aurora shooting, we need to make sure our laws are being enforced and dovetail together the way they should. Crazy people aren't supposed to have access to guns.

But the words "background check" are enough to get some people foaming at the mouth. Who's really crazy at that point?

We are a nation of immigrants in a way that no other nation is.

Ummm...yeah? I guess?

We are a nation of immigrants.

Nothing to do with what I said.

We will never be disarmed because we are a nation of immigrants.

Nooooooo, we'll never be disarmed because a) there's too many guns, and b) there's no reason to disarm us.

We are people who survived seeing their family put on the train to the gas chambers by their own government.

Seriously? What? You're gonna try to go there, like, for real?

We are people who saw the drug cartels kill their whole families.

With American firearms. Go us.

The NRA was founded to provide guns to blacks in the South so they could defend themselves against the Klan.

No, the NRA was founded because Union generals noticed their boys couldn't shoot effectively and wanted to improve marksmanship (and compete with their prestigious European counterparts) after the war.

 

[Granite]

before they take away our freedom

they will have to take away our guns

You consider yourself to have a lot of freedom these days?

 

[chrysostom]

You consider yourself to have a lot of freedom these days?

yes I do

really I do

 

[Granite]

yes I do

really I do

Whatever gets you through the night.

 

[chrysostom]

You consider yourself to have a lot of freedom these days?

women are free to kill their babies

is that freedom
or
what???

 

[bybee]

women are free to kill their babies

is that freedom
or
what???

Good point.

 

[Rusha]

I've rarely if ever heard anyone arguing for the confiscation of all guns in the U.S. This is the fantasy flip side of folks convinced it'll eventually happen, and anyone crazy enough to believe one of these two scenarios deserves to be locked in an elevator with their counterpart.

Then you have missed some of the replies. There was confirmation that it is more acceptable for someone to lose their life in their own home rather than allowing law abiding citizens to own firearms.

And that's not the "side" I have in mind. Self-restraint, discipline, sanity, maturity...these things aren't too much to ask for. I don't often say this, but I agreed with Obama's comments. We do need to have a discussion and yes, no other developed country acts this way.

I have no problem with certain restrictions ... it's the mentality of believing banning them will keep all of us safer. It will keep criminals safer.

We need to ask why we're like this. We need to ask why this keeps happening.

What's wrong with us?

Why are we so terrified of even having this conversation?

Extremism from both sides. It guess it just comes down to which side you fall on. For me, a handgun is an equalizer. I think that is the case for most gun owners. One or the other is going to have the upper hand. Giving it to criminals is not an option.

 

[bybee]

You're peddling garbage, bybee. Usually you're better than this.

Yep, it's all about Obama. Clearly Obama. All his fault. Yep, yep, yep. Because we haven't had this problem until he showed up. Because we can just cop out and blame him for everything.

Total, utter, asinine idiocy. What even possessed you to somehow blame for him for this--even in part? Seriously. Why do you think like this?

And that is not what I said you Putz!
I said "IN PART" he is responsible or why have a POTUS at all?

 

[Granite]

Then you have missed some of the replies. There was confirmation that it is more acceptable for someone to lose their life in their own home rather than allowing law abiding citizens to own firearms.

Consider the counterargument: Mass shootings are the acceptable sacrifice we must make on the altar of liberty in order to ensure our "freedoms." (There's a reason I said yesterday that being an American sometimes makes me think I'm a defacto member of a death cult.) That's the admission the NRA crowd makes, Rusha, tacitly or otherwise. Newtown, Aurora, Charleston (and whoever comes next): The cost of doing business. Put another way, it's acceptable to these fanatics for people to lose their lives literally anywhere they go these days rather than allowing sensible gun control in an attempt to reduce that risk.

We're not allowed to even timidly entertain that possibility before the maniacs start shrieking and fondling their firearms, and you know it.

I have no problem with certain restrictions ... it's the mentality of believing banning them will keep all of us safer. It will keep criminals safer.

We need to at least try to do something. So far, we've done absolutely nothing.

Extremism from both sides. It guess it just comes down to which side you fall on. For me, a handgun is an equalizer. I think that is the case for most gun owners. One or the other is going to have the upper hand. Giving it to criminals is not an option.

Yeah. Well. Guess that's one way to look at it.

 

[Granite]

And that is not what I said you Putz!
I said "IN PART" he is responsible or why have a POTUS at all?

He has nothing to do with this at all and this repackaged FOX News garbage isn't worth listening to. Usually, you're better than this.