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  • Nick M
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    were they truly indwelt?

    were Ananias and Sapphira?
    They were baptized by Christ with the Holy Spirit. The Body of Christ, saints starting with Paul, are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit. Not the same.

    Jesus is God. The Father is God. Jesus is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is God.

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  • Nick M
    replied
    And one other thing. Thanks.

    This was one of those things Sozo harped on, and he is right. Paul mentions walking in the Spirit elsewhere and the "Pentecostal" bozos get it wrong. Paul tells you right there. To walk in the Spirit is knowing nothing you do justifies you. You rely on him to be set apart. And this is why so many perish. They want the glory for themselves.

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  • Nick M
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    can one who is indwelt by Christ choose to commit immoral acts?
    Yes. The Bible has multiple examples.

    Leave a comment:


  • musterion
    replied
    Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
    Well, since you're so sweet, I'll let you disagree. But, I think we are told to put them out of the congregation lest their leaven affect the whole lump. Paul has been chewing them out because they were letting him stay among them with this open sin.
    That's all true but in 2 Cor 2:7, he tells them,

    So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him
    Forgive him for what: for sinning before he got saved? That doesn't make sense unless he was saved to begin with.

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  • glorydaz
    replied
    Originally posted by musterion View Post
    I respectfully disagree, beloved.

    If Paul knew the man was unsaved...or only believed that he was...based on what we know of the Ambassador's heart for the lost, which would make more sense for Paul to have prescribed?

    1. Kick the guy out of the congregation and hope he manages to hear the Gospel of grace and get saved while he's back in contact with no one but Christ-hating pagans?

    2. Get the elders at Corinth to make sure the guy had understood and had believed the Gospel of grace, and was in fact saved (or not)?

    Answer: Paul didn't do either of these. Instead, he treated the guy as if he [Paul] ASSUMED the guy was saved, though sinning grievously, and so treated him very, very harshly for his own good and the good of that stupid, carnal church that should have already dealt with him.

    The turning over to Satan was, I assume, part of Paul's apostolic authority. But would Paul even need to turn over an unbeliever to Satan? No. If unsaved, the guy would already belong to the Devil.

    I believe the guy was saved the whole time. That's the only way Paul's treatment of him makes any sense.

    Right or wrong, let iron sharpen iron!
    Well, since you're so sweet, I'll let you disagree. But, I think we are told to put them out of the congregation lest their leaven affect the whole lump. Paul has been chewing them out because they were letting him stay among them with this open sin.
    1 Cor. 5:9-13
    I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

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  • musterion
    replied
    Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
    Hmm...I don't think Paul considered that guy saved, because of what he wrote here. He was talking about how putting someone from out of the assembly might work toward their being saved down the road....after he was crucified with Christ and raised unto life.
    1 Corinthians 5
    1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
    I respectfully disagree, beloved.

    If Paul knew the man was unsaved...or only believed that he was...based on what we know of the Ambassador's heart for the lost, which would make more sense for Paul to have prescribed?

    1. Kick the guy out of the congregation and hope he manages to hear the Gospel of grace and get saved while he's back in contact with no one but Christ-hating pagans?

    2. Get the elders at Corinth to make sure the guy had understood and had believed the Gospel of grace, and was in fact saved (or not)?

    Answer: Paul didn't do either of these. Instead, he treated the guy as if he [Paul] ASSUMED the guy was saved, though sinning grievously, and so treated him very, very harshly for his own good and the good of that stupid, carnal church that should have already dealt with him.

    The turning over to Satan was, I assume, part of Paul's apostolic authority. But would Paul even need to turn over an unbeliever to Satan? No. If unsaved, the guy would already belong to the Devil.

    I believe the guy was saved the whole time. That's the only way Paul's treatment of him makes any sense.

    Right or wrong, let iron sharpen iron!

    Leave a comment:


  • glorydaz
    replied
    Originally posted by musterion View Post
    Salvation being by grace through faith, Paul seemed to have had doubts about some, but nonetheless chose to believe/acted on the assumption that they were Christ's...even the guy having sex with his own mother. That's how I understand him, anyway.
    Hmm...I don't think Paul considered that guy saved, because of what he wrote here. He was talking about how putting someone from out of the assembly might work toward their being saved down the road....after he was crucified with Christ and raised unto life.
    1 Corinthians 5
    1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Angel4Truth
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • musterion
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    were they truly indwelt?
    Salvation being by grace through faith, Paul seemed to have had doubts about some, but nonetheless chose to believe/acted on the assumption that they were Christ's...even the guy having sex with his own mother. That's how I understand him, anyway.

    were Ananias and Sapphira?
    It's unwise to take a miraculous apostolic era incident and seek to connect it this dispensation of grace.

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    were they truly indwelt?

    were Ananias and Sapphira?
    buehler?

    buehler?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tambora
    replied
    Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Insider Smokey and the Bandit reference for Nick M!
    I know that movie backwards and forwards!
    It had some great lines in it!

    Leave a comment:


  • glorydaz
    replied
    Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Insider Smokey and the Bandit reference for Nick M!
    Brat.

    Leave a comment:


  • glorydaz
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post




    can one who is indwelt by Christ choose to commit immoral acts?
    "Immoral" covers a lot of ground.


    When we walked in this world as unbelievers, we had no one to keep us on the straight path. We do now. I'm confident He will DO IT...even when I am weak.
    1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.


    Philippians 1:6
    Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

    Leave a comment:


  • SaulToPaul
    replied
    Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
    I rushed over here to see what you had to say, and I get this?
    Insider Smokey and the Bandit reference for Nick M!

    Leave a comment:


  • glorydaz
    replied
    Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    I heard that Nick M has a great profile...especially from the side.
    I rushed over here to see what you had to say, and I get this?

    Leave a comment:

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