Why would God need a hell?

[jamie]

Judgment day is the day of salvation for all of humanity; it will be a Great good day, which is WHY it is called the Great Judgment, because salvation makes it great.

Yes, during the Last Day the Book of Life will be opened to those resurrected.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works by the things which were written in the books. (Revelation 20:12 NKJV)​

Based on their repentance and faith toward God they will receive salvation by grace through faith and then be judged by what they say and do the same as we are today. No difference.

 

[Dialogos]

I totally disagree, in fact I think the Great White Throne Judgment will be the greatest day of salvation because of Isaiah 45:23...

Which you have had explained to you here, but apparently you just ignored my reply.

Care to respond to the exegesis?

 

[way 2 go]

Talk of eternal hell waters down salvation and its true greatness; more over it limits a good look at how God really is. In Psalms 145:8-9, "The Lord is gracious and FULL of compassion; slow to anger and of GREAT Mercy! The Lord is good TO ALL and his TENDER Mercies are all over his works!" Look at how God is described! FULL of compassion; literally full of it. Great Mercy; tender mercy.

So everything God represents will be GOOD for ALL! Eternal hell is good for nothing.

actually the opposite of water down

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and if every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation

the price Jesus paid was more than you can pay
because it is eternal conscious torment

 

[Mickiel]

Which you have had explained to you here, but apparently you just ignored my reply.

Care to respond to the exegesis?

I disagree with your explination, the text shows God making a Holy vow " By himself", or God swearing by God, that to him all humans will bow and confess to him; which is conversion in my book. Every knee means every human will submit to God;

but I already know how Christianity is, so I hold no interest in trying to convince this great promise of God; I understand that Christians are set not to see the salvation of all, they must see failure.

 

[Mickiel]

actually the opposite of water down

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and if every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation

the price Jesus paid was more than you can pay
because it is eternal conscious torment

Why do you think salvation is called great?

 

[Mickiel]

Yes, during the Last Day the Book of Life will be opened to those resurrected.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works by the things which were written in the books. (Revelation 20:12 NKJV)​

Based on their repentance and faith toward God they will receive salvation by grace through faith and then be judged by what they say and do the same as we are today. No difference.

I am not Christian, I don't view salvation as being based on the humans faith or repentance, or the things THEY have done, I view it based on things God and Christ have done. The judgment is not going to render who is saved, works cannot save a human, but works can be measured to give an honor for those works.

 

[way 2 go]

I disagree with your explination, the text shows God making a Holy vow " By himself", or God swearing by God, that to him all humans will bow and confess to him; which is conversion in my book. Every knee means every human will submit to God;

but I already know how Christianity is, so I hold no interest in trying to convince this great promise of God; I understand that Christians are set not to see the salvation of all, they must see failure.

you do realize believing and knowing are two different things

 

[way 2 go]

Why do you think salvation is called great?

the price Jesus paid was more than you can pay
because it is eternal conscious torment

 

[Mickiel]

the price Jesus paid was more than you can pay
because it is eternal conscious torment

There is no such thing as eternal conscious torment, that would be insanity, and God is not insane, the doctrines of men are. God will have mercy on all; Romans 11:32, " For God has shut them ALL up in unbelief, so that he can show Mercy to them ALL!" This is WHY humans don't believe in God, because God has locked them into that consciousness, so he can later show them Mercy. Christians are just unable to be that merciful.

 

[Nick M]

God doesn't need hell but there are a lot of christians who do they want you to suffer how christian is that?

1 Corinthians 16

22 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!

 

[jamie]

I am not Christian, I don't view salvation as being based on the humans faith or repentance, or the things THEY have done, I view it based on things God and Christ have done.

Okay, since you say you are not a Christian I can understand why you would reject the doctrines of Christ.

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Hebrews 6:1-2 NKJV)​

 

[freelight]

Going in circles.....

Going in circles.....

There is no such thing as eternal conscious torment, that would be insanity, and God is not insane, the doctrines of men are. God will have mercy on all; Romans 11:32, " For God has shut them ALL up in unbelief, so that he can show Mercy to them ALL!" This is WHY humans don't believe in God, because God has locked them into that consciousness, so he can later show them Mercy. Christians are just unable to be that merciful.

Hi Mickiel,


We have been hashing this out in these threads here & here. One can consult the vital commentary and information there as well, against ECT and the many 'problems' with it on different levels, most of all just philosopshically. I've invested so much commentary in these threads, that its exhausting, so often link newbies to the discussion to these past discussions and information.

See:

Stop the insanity

Older ECT blog portal

In past discussion I've always maintained that as long as souls are able to repent, there is hope and salvation for them, since 'God' is Love by nature, and Love's will is always restorative, healing, life-enhancing, encouraging, empowering, immortalizing. Love's ways are wholly sane, true, good and life-promoting.

 

[Mickiel]

Okay, since you say you are not a Christian I can understand why you would reject the doctrines of Christ.

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Hebrews 6:1-2 NKJV)​

I do not reject the teachings of Christ, I reject how Christianity understands them. Jesus was not a Christian, the term Christian came from the Romans; the Romans first " Called them that in Antioch." I have no obligation to Christianity. I believe where sin is great, grace is greater, Rom. 5:20. The Great White Throne judgment is going to be Great, because of the grace that will be extended to all of humanity. Christians think its going to be great because of this condemnation they have been taught to expect from God.

 

[Mickiel]

Hi Mickiel,


We have been hashing this out in these threads here & here. One can consult the vital commentary and information there as well, against ECT and the many 'problems' with it on different levels, most of all just philosopshically. I've invested so much commentary in these threads, that its exhausting, so often link newbies to the discussion to these past discussions and information.

See:

Stop the insanity

Older ECT blog portal

In past discussion I've always maintained that as long as souls are able to repent, there is hope and salvation for them, since 'God' is Love by nature, and Love's will is always restorative, healing, life-enhancing, encouraging, empowering, immortalizing. Love's ways are wholly sane, true, good and life-promoting.

Well the true message of God's salvation is hard to relate to the traditional mind; because they are caught up in the destruction of that message; believers have lost their first love; that first love used to be the salvation of all. Now they argue for the misery of much of humanity.

 

[Lon]

God doesn't need hell
but
there are a lot of christians who do

they want you to suffer

how christian is that?

I thought you were Catholic? I heard about hell first through them.

 

[freelight]

I thought you were Catholic? I heard about hell first through them.

Tell us Lon, how eternal conscious torment, or endless punishment enforced to no end is loving. Can you?

 

[Mickiel]

For universal salvation to be true, God has to do things on a world wide scale, and sin has to be removed; that is done! 2 Corinth. 5:19, " To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD unto himself, not imputing their sins against them." I mean, my goodness, what more do you want from scripture that reveals God saving a World, not even counting our sins against us. The Christians are counting, but they don't matter to this world salvation. Only what God and Christ did matters. And they matter for you. They are for you, not against you.

 

[way 2 go]

Tell us Lon, how eternal conscious torment, or endless punishment enforced to no end is loving. Can you?

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king who made a marriage for his son.
Mat 22:3 And he sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they would not come.

did God send peace and love to those who would not come ?

Mat 22:7 But when the king heard, he was angry. And he sent out his armies and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

or to people who make up their own gospel peace and love ?


Mat 22:12 And he said to him, Friend, how did you come in here without having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Hell to me is simply perceived separation from God. It is a man-made concept (often employed as a fear-tactic) solidified by the identity of the personality. Unfortunately the personality is not who we really are. There is a true identity that the personality imitates and this true identity is always one with God. Peace.

 

[Mickiel]

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king who made a marriage for his son.
Mat 22:3 And he sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they would not come.

did God send peace and love to those who would not come ?

Mat 22:7 But when the king heard, he was angry. And he sent out his armies and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

or to people who make up their own gospel peace and love ?


Mat 22:12 And he said to him, Friend, how did you come in here without having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You know what I think , in the parable of the prodical son, the father was symbolic of God, the prodical son symbolic of the world of sinners, and Christianity is symbolic of the brother who stayed home with his father. When the prodical son came to himself and went home, the Father was glad and held a dinner party. The brother was mad and envious of this and acted as if he did not want the father to forgive.

This is how Christianity is treating the world of those who reject Christ.