Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

Show us...

Sure;

In Col. 3:1, " If they be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, " Where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God." I mean that is his spot; his place on the throne. Mark 16:19 Jesus was received into heaven and sat on the right hand of God, this simply means on the " Right side" of God. Or right next to him; so when the Father said that he alone is God, and beside him there is not another God, we can biblically and rightly assume that when he spoke that, Jesus was sitting right next to him. Where he always sits. Right besides him.

Now, in my view, once God has spoken something, it supersedes any other biblical person, INCLUDING Jesus! No matter what any biblical writer has written, what the Father says simply is the final authority on the matter.

At least that is how I view this. Jesus is not God the Father, no way biblically possible. But now if one is asking if Jesus is himself an individual God, he could be; I just don't know. I mean, goodness, he created the entire universe, if he is not " A" God, he sure has the power of one. In my opinion, the bible is unclear on this matter; it could be one of several possibilities.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

The most biblically correct way to put this, is that God " Had evil created", for his purpose. What many do not know, is that really Jesus did all the creating. Notice John 1:3, " ALL things were made by him, ( Christ, the Word), and without him was not anything made that was made." So Jesus actually created the physical universe and humanity. And the 24 elders on God's throne, and all the Angels, and satan and his demons. But did so under God's direction. I think where the universe is concerned, God just kind of let Jesus indulge himself in his great power!

Jesus must really be a VERY powerful being!

Notice verse 10, " He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." Here it just comes right out again and reveals that it was Jesus who created the world! So actually Jesus created satan and evil, God did not personally do it, but he had it done. And this is WHY they will not allow evil to destroy the eternal future of a human, because they fashioned our existence and exposed us to sin.

Sin and evil did not create itself, nothing that powerful has self evolution, without Christ, was not ANYTHING made that exist.

Dude, Jesus Christ is symbolism for the infinite eternal part of us. I'd like for you to try an exercise for your consideration. Go back and reread what you just wrote in this post and replace the word Jesus with the infinite eternal part of you or the soul or whatever word you decide to use for it. Tell me what you get. We can do the same thing with the New Testament and see what kind of a perspective this brings. In place of Jesus Christ, use the soul and see what kind of sense the scriptures make. This is not a game. I am dead serious. There is a message in the gospels that we need to see. The word is trying to tell us that we are one with God in his creation. We are partaking in this process right now. We are powerful beings because we are one with God's infinite strength. Ever notice how we direct these qualities outside of us and subconsciously disown them? Why don't we want to own them or have any thing to do with this part of us? Are we afraid of our own magnificence? Is it possible that we have unconsciously bought into the idea that we are worthless? What is behind the need to consistently knock this idea down to the ground, bury it and reject it? Is this not the same thing they did to Jesus Christ? Why does our inner divinity so eerily resemble the story of Jesus? Is this merely coincidental? What exactly determines a person's worth anyway? Also notice how quickly a belief will displace what is infinite and eternal with limits, boundaries and structures. There is good reason God demands we not worship any graven images of Him. As soon as we try to do that we no longer have God, we have something else. Please let's not miss these important points any longer. The future generations cannot afford to do this anymore. Think about your children and the future of humanity. The world is lost without you doing your part in your own self-realization. This is too important. My conscience will not allow me to go on and not say anything about this. I know I cannot save the world but the infinite eternal part of us screams: ""I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John 16:33

 

[Apple7]

Sure;

In Col. 3:1, " If they be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, " Where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God." I mean that is his spot; his place on the throne. Mark 16:19 Jesus was received into heaven and sat on the right hand of God, this simply means on the " Right side" of God. Or right next to him;

Isaiah 45, your example, says nothing of the sort.

so when the Father said that he alone is God, and beside him there is not another God, we can biblically and rightly assume that when he spoke that, Jesus was sitting right next to him. Where he always sits. Right besides him.

No.

That would be your own eisegesis poured full strength into that passage.

Now, in my view, once God has spoken something, it supersedes any other biblical person, INCLUDING Jesus! No matter what any biblical writer has written, what the Father says simply is the final authority on the matter.

Jesus is God.

This is fact according to the established rules of Greek grammar, independent of your willful denial of it.

At least that is how I view this. Jesus is not God the Father, no way biblically possible. But now if one is asking if Jesus is himself an individual God, he could be; I just don't know. I mean, goodness, he created the entire universe, if he is not " A" God, he sure has the power of one. In my opinion, the bible is unclear on this matter; it could be one of several possibilities.

The Holy Bible is very clear on the matter.

You are just too dense to see.

 

[Mickiel]

The Holy Bible is very clear on the matter.

You are just too dense to see.

I hold no need to insult you, I favor respectful , intelligent , Spiritual conversation in debate. It is unfortunate that you must belittle those you communicate with ; I see that spirit becoming more common in some believers. I have no use for it.

 

[Apple7]

Exposing your scriptural ignorance...

Exposing your scriptural ignorance...

...so when the Father said that he alone is God, and beside him there is not another God...

Deut 4.35
To you it was revealed, so that you might know that Yahweh is HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’), and no one else besides Him.

 

[Mickiel]

The Holy Bible is very clear on the matter.

You are just too dense to see.

You ever wonder why some people like trying to humiliate others in these conversations? Why do people insult you and call you names?

Why?

Well that is worth another thread by anyone who would research how manners are being corrupted by even believers in God. They seem to feel like they can just talk in any manner that they please. I have seen some of them actually use the bible to support them insulting others. Its like they hold a knife in their mouths, and just cut you into insulting sections; and they even seem to enjoy doing it. Strange behavior in my view.

 

[Apple7]

You ever wonder why some people like trying to humiliate others in these conversations? Why do people insult you and call you names?

Why?

Well that is worth another thread by anyone who would research how manners are being corrupted by even believers in God. They seem to feel like they can just talk in any manner that they please. I have seen some of them actually use the bible to support them insulting others. Its like they hold a knife in their mouths, and just cut you into insulting sections; and they even seem to enjoy doing it. Strange behavior in my view.

1 Kings 8.60
For all the peoples of the earth know that Yahweh, He is HaElohim (literal.. ‘all the Gods’); there is no other;

 

[Aimiel]

I can tell you that God not only created evil, of which I showed you the biblical verse, he uses evil, I showed you that, he puts lies in prophets mouths and speaks evil about them, I showed you that, he does evil to his own servants, the book of Job proves that; he creates crooked humans, I showed you that,

now let me show you one more thing about God, he had us all born in sin and heavily influenced by it, Ps. 51:5. In sin and evil we all were born into it with absolutely no choice. Shaped by it, BECAUSE God willed it. I am saying that God can do whatever he wants to do, he can cause evil to do its thing on earth, and that in no manner means that he himself is evil; no. But to say that God has never done anything evil, is just not knowing scripture. Now God never has " Personally done the evil", but he has had others do it for him.

The devil does everything God tells him to do. God completely controls him. In fact, God " Ordained the devil"; look at Rom. 13:1, " Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but OF God! the powers that be ARE ORDAINED OF GOD!" The devil is surely a " Power that be." There would be no evil if God did not want it to be.

Your lack of understanding is viral.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

I am not surprised that we continue to turn our backs on the realest part of ourselves as if it weren't important. Humanity has been finding every possible way to justify this for centuries and the list continues to grow. Why would things change now? We have hardened our hearts against God and the seeds of the Kingdom do not fall on fertile ground. "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you." Matthew 21:31

 

[MichaelCadry]

Isaiah 45, your example, says nothing of the sort.

Jesus said, "before this world was." Or something to that effect. I can't remember the exact words, but it is in the Four Gospels, and I think He prayed it in the garden of Gethsemane, although I am not sure about that either. He was at God's side before this world/Earth was.

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

At least that is how I view this. Jesus is not God the Father, no way biblically possible. But now if one is asking if Jesus is himself an individual God, he could be; I just don't know. I mean, goodness, he created the entire universe, if he is not " A" God, he sure has the power of one. In my opinion, the bible is unclear on this matter; it could be one of several possibilities.

John 1:1-3 KJV -

 

[Mickiel]

Here's a list of people who need salvation from religion and sin; Romans 3:23, " For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Jesus came not to " Call" the righteous, but he came to " Call" sinners to repentance; ALL have sinned, so he came for ALL. Sin and religion are the two things I know of that look to separate humans from God. Both will try to condemn you. Condemnation dressed in religion is the worst kind.

 

[Timotheos]

Cast alive [ζάω] into the lake of fire (Re 19:20). Everlasting fire (Matt. 25:41), everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), everlasting destruction (2 Thess. 1:9).

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

The lake of fire is the second death [ὁ θάνατος ὁ δεύτερός],
Those cast alive into the lake of fire, the second death, will perish in it. They will be burnt up in fire. Seriously, that is what fire does!

I know that Jesus loves, me and is willing and able to save me, and He has. I have already repented and I believe in the Son of God for salvation. Jesus does not require anyone to believe in the false doctrine of eternal hellish torture for salvation. Does your denomination tell you that you must believe in eternal torture in hell in order to be saved? If so, you should think about leaving that denomination.

Why don't you repent of the sadistic doctrine of eternal torture and believe what Jesus Christ said "For God so loves the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not PERISH but have eternal LIFE."

Seriously, what does John 3:16 say in your Bible? What do your leaders tell you that John 3:16 says? How does your denomination convert PERISH or HAVE ETERNAL LIFE into heavenly bliss or hellish torture?

Repent, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, He loves you and He is willing to save you. You don't have to cling to the false and sadistic doctrine of torture.

 

[chrysostom]

The lake of fire is the second death [ὁ θάνατος ὁ δεύτερός],
Those cast alive into the lake of fire, the second death, will perish in it. They will be burnt up in fire. Seriously, that is what fire does!

the first death is the body
and
the second death is the soul

why is that so hard for them to understand?

 

[Mickiel]

the first death is the body
and
the second death is the soul

why is that so hard for them to understand?

Oh no, you are incorrect; the second death, is the death of the first death, not the death of humans. Simply read the real biblical description; in Rev.20:14, " And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This IS the second death!" The second death has absolutely nothing to do with humans, its simply the death of the first death;

Why is this so hard to understand??

 

[Timotheos]

One thing is certain...

The second death is NOT eternal life being tortured alive forever. Why is that so hard for them to understand???

 

[Timotheos]

Oh no, you are incorrect; the second death, is the death of the first death, not the death of humans. Simply read the real biblical description; in Rev.20:14, " And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This IS the second death!" The second death has absolutely nothing to do with humans, its simply the death of the first death;

Why is this so hard to understand??

BTW, how is the weather in Michigan today? Here in Wisconsin it is colder than H.E. Double Hockeysticks!

 

[Mickiel]

BTW, how is the weather in Michigan today? Here in Wisconsin it is colder than H.E. Double Hockeysticks!

Its cold and snowing here.

 

[Mickiel]

One thing is certain...

The second death is NOT eternal life being tortured alive forever. Why is that so hard for them to understand???

No it is not. The second death, as clearly described in Rev. 20:14 is the first death being cast into the Lake of Fire; so notice, death is destroyed BEFORE the event in verse 15, " And whoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the Lake of Fire!" Now death is already gone and disposed of, so these humans don't die. There are not punished forever, so somethingelse must happen to them;

and I believe that is a short period of punishment, followed by being born again. And that " fits God."

 

[chrysostom]

Oh no, you are incorrect; the second death, is the death of the first death, not the death of humans. Simply read the real biblical description; in Rev.20:14, " And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This IS the second death!" The second death has absolutely nothing to do with humans, its simply the death of the first death;

Why is this so hard to understand??

the 'death of death' does not make sense

do you not think the soul can die?