I think you know that's not true (Mt 8:29). He will reveal himself soon. Joseph's wife (Gen. 41:45) wasn't there when he revealed himself to his brethren (Ge 45:1). :rapture:
You'd like us to think that (2 Pe 2:1).
Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
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Allowing the wicked into heaven would make heaven hell (Enyart). :granite: Re 21:27
God took Eve אִשָּׁה from the fire of God (His life in the original language).
Her name was not Eve at the beginning. She was taken from her husband, Adam. Gen. 2:22.
Adam and Eve had God's life in them. They lost it in the fall (Gen. 3:24). Men must be born again (Eph. 2:1).
Mickiel
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God took Eve אִשָּׁה from the fire of God (His life in the original language).
Her name was not Eve at the beginning. She was taken from her husband, Adam. Gen. 2:22.
Adam and Eve had God's life in them. They lost it in the fall (Gen. 3:24). Men must be born again (Eph. 2:1).
There is no such thing as " The Fall", its just another popular Christian misconception. Adam and Eve did not " Fall", they were set up and thrown out of the garden of Eden. They never had God's holy spirit, and there are absolutely zero scriptures that claim they did.
Prizebeatz1
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Has anyone actually examined what is behind the need to hold to the scriptures? I'm not saying this is bad but there comes a point when dependence becomes a hindrance. We can use the tools to help us but if we use them as a way to rationalize facing what is infinite and eternal then we are playing a part in our own disconnection from God without realizing what we are doing. The enemy would like to keep this a secret. There is no way to replace the infinite feeling of self-worth that comes from connection with our internal divinity. It doesn't matter how many scriptures we quote or how intensely we believe in Jesus. We need to slowly begin to let go of the grip we have on what brings us the unconscious pleasure of having something to hold, something to believe, something on which to lean, something to cover our sins, something to hide behind. If we were to feel and know the soul we wouldn't be so desperate about it because we would already know we were good enough exactly the way we are. This is the same unconditional love of God. The same intensity with which we try to hold on to anything is the same intensity with which the enemy has us in its grip. Awakening to the soul is a letting go of everything we think is valuable in this world. The state of the soul has no desire to hold onto anything because it is one with what IS which is nothing but unconditional everlasting paradise and ecstasy. This is what and who we truly are. We have to see how hanging onto the bible is one of many things that can disconnect us from this state. There's nothing wrong with the scriptures of course but they point to something bigger and better. We must be willing to open our hands in order to receive this. We cannot receive it if there is something in the way ready to displace what is infinite and eternal.
Eve had the Holy Spirit. God did not need to rebreathe into her after she was taken from Adam (Ge 2:7, Jb 33:4). One breath for the two (Ge 2:23, Heb. 2:11). Her sorrow would include one son murdering another (Gen. 4:8, Jud 11) and so on (Ge 3:16). The fall changed the world. It was good (Ge 1:31). It became bad (Ge 3:24). Men must be born again to partake of the tree of life (Jesus). Gen. 2:9, Rev. 22:1, 2
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ttruscott
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Given the outcome HE wanted, that is, a heavenly marriage with them and us:
Why would HE want this outcome of their becoming evil?
Why would HE put us in Adam's sin, creating us as evil?
How can a loving GOD do any of this to anyone?
If this doesn't make sense, change these premises! Don't black-wash your understanding of HIS goodness to white-wash the theology!
My outcome of this story and why HE allowed the serpent to deceive them was to bring them to repentance of their self chosen state of sinfulness which they had been rejecting so that all his earthly human progeny, those elect born as sinners, could partake of the same salvation they found in repentance and the blood of Christ.
And to forestall cries that all are the children of GOD: Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children, because of their defect; But are a perverse and crooked generation. or: their defect is that they are not HIS children
which adds to Hebrews 12:8 If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.
Aimiel
Well-known member
God doesn't set up or tempt ANYONE. He gave men a choice. They chose evil. Still do. God allows us to do our will in this dark world. Without The Blood, there is NO life in us. With His Blood, we are cleansed. We have Him in us. His Spirit. His Life. He actually lives in us. He doesn't live in the lost. Ever.
Mickiel
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Adam and Eve were not evil, nor did they ever become evil. Adam and Eve did not " Choose a state of sinfulness", they sinned one time, and it was the first time they sinned; they did not do anythingelse wrong. They were not crooked or perverse; in my personal view, they were better humans than any human believer in God is now. Adam and Eve NEVER rejected God.
But see, when a Christian is explaining your life, its no telling how they are going to describe it. In my view, Adam was one of the greatest humans to ever live. I think he just did not know God that well. I don't think God trained Adam, and God certainly did not protect Adam from satan. God let them get hoodwinked, in order to create the need for Christ to come.
Mickiel
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I totally disagree with you. In Job 1:12, God sets up Job to be seriously dealt with by satan. In Job 42:11 the scriptures clearly show Job being comforted from " All the evil that the Lord had brought on him."
Job had absolutely no choice in this at all.
Aimiel
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Your opinion is your opinion. Mine is that you lack understanding.
Mickiel
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I understand enough to know that when you stated that God does not set up humans to be tempted, you are just flat out wrong, and Job 1:12 is absolute proof of it. God set Adam up, he set Moses up, he set Paul up, he set David's life up; God was involved in every evil thing these men had to go through.
Isaiah 45:7, " I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things."
Hello!
Mickiel
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In 1 Tim. 2:14, " And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." This is why I first said Adam did not sin, but one can argue that he did; he listened to his wife, and he allowed her to confront satan, and he did nothing about it. I think its because he was totally smitten with Eve, because satan did not deceive him. I think Eve was, at first, a controlling woman, perhaps more powerful than Adam. She knew she could manipulate Adam, and I think at first, Eve was the one in charge; she was the leader. Why do I think that?
Well examine the curse God placed on her in Gen. 3:16, he multiplies the pain she will have giving birth to her children, and he makes her " Submissive to Adam, that he would rule over her", which obviously means she was the one in charge before this curse. She was ruling over Adam. I think Adam was just a very loving man, destined, like Judas, to have to ignite humanity in historical ways.
You have a vivid imagination
Mickiel
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Its not imagination, its scripture and common sense. God cursed Eve with being submissive to Adam, meaning she was not that way before. Why curse someone with something that is already in place? That means Eve was a manipulating woman, perhaps beautiful and comely, smart and convincing. She was the leader, which is why she confronted the serpent in Eden. Its WHY the serpent dealt with only her. And its exactly what God wanted! If God wanted Adam to put up a fight, he would have trained him to do so; he did not. Its not like God did not have the time. And Adam did NOT have the Holy Spirit inside of him, that is nowhere in scripture. If Adam would have had God's spirit, he would have behaved totally different than he did.
Adam and Eve were blind to what the serpent was and how to deal with it. Notice closely Gen. 3:7, " The eyes of both of them were opened". Now this is NOT talking about their physical eyes, they were not physically blind; it means they were NOT spiritually prepared or equipped BEFORE this verse 7, after the serpent had left. They were stupid in very important areas. They did not even know they were naked. And God fore knew all of this, because God is not stupid either. He would NOT leave the destiny of humanity up to Adam.
Each of these men point to him. Eve would look to Adam as a source of strength but he lost spiritual life (Ge 3:16). Her seed is faith. Faith allows the second Adam and the restoration of life (Ge 3:15, Ro 5:15). Men come as they always have--by faith (Ge 50:20, 2 Sam 18:33, Heb 11:1, 8, 27).
The word 'Lake' as in 'Lake of Fire' comes from 'Haven'.
Phoenix is the Haven...
Acts 27:12
"And because the haven was not commodious to winter in, the more part advised to depart thence also, if by any means they might attain to Phenice, and there to winter; which is an haven of Crete, and lieth toward the south west and north west"
Lake of Fire = Phoenix
Understand?
Read that verse a few times and let it sink in.
Lower parts of the Earth = Hell.
That's where we came from.
It's also a picture of the WOMB.
What do the saved carry into Heaven?
PHOENIX...
Revelation 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"
Strong's 5404: Phoinix
Definition: a palm tree, the date-palm.
Start putting it together people...
You know exactly what that bird symbolizes.
And now you know what the churches are hiding from you.
Good luck.
Phoenix is the Haven...
Acts 27:12
"And because the haven was not commodious to winter in, the more part advised to depart thence also, if by any means they might attain to Phenice, and there to winter; which is an haven of Crete, and lieth toward the south west and north west"
Lake of Fire = Phoenix
Understand?
Read that verse a few times and let it sink in.
Lower parts of the Earth = Hell.
That's where we came from.
It's also a picture of the WOMB.
What do the saved carry into Heaven?
PHOENIX...
Revelation 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"
Strong's 5404: Phoinix
Definition: a palm tree, the date-palm.
Start putting it together people...
You know exactly what that bird symbolizes.
And now you know what the churches are hiding from you.
Good luck.
The wicked will perish, what does John 3:16 say in your Bible? You haven't answered this question. Does John 3:16 say that those who reject the Son of God will have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever by God? I'm curious how you understand John 3:16. Here is Jesus Christ saying exactly what I believe, and the opposite of what you believe. So what does John 3:16 say in your Bible? I'm sure that sometime in your life someone has shown you John 3:16. Maybe you have even seen a "JOHN 3:16" sign at a sporting event. Haven't you wondered what that is all about?
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