Why would God need a hell?

[Aimiel]

I understand enough to know that when you stated that God does not set up humans to be tempted, you are just flat out wrong, and Job 1:12 is absolute proof of it. God set Adam up, he set Moses up, he set Paul up, he set David's life up; God was involved in every evil thing these men had to go through.

Isaiah 45:7, " I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things."

Hello!

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God did create evil but iHe doesn't commit any, ever.

Hello

DUHHH

 

[serpentdove]

The wicked will perish...

Cast alive [ζάω] into the lake of fire (Re 19:20). Everlasting fire (Matt. 25:41), everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), everlasting destruction (2 Thess. 1:9).

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

 

[Mickiel]

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God did create evil but iHe doesn't commit any, ever.

Hello

DUHHH

Do you think God would tell you to kill your son? If he did, would that be a good thing? Well he told Abram to do it, sacrifice his own son; but he stopped him from doing it; but he wanted to know if Abram would do it. That wasn't such a nice thing, now was it? Somethingelse interesting that God did in 1 Kings 22:23, " Now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets, and God has spoken evil concerning them."

Interesting, this God we serve, and what we THINK he is like.

Here God himself actually places a spirit of lying inside of these prophets, then he speaks evil about them.

Hello!

God does this same thing again in 2 Chron. 18:21-22. He puts a lying spirit inside of the consciousness of these men, then he speaks evil about them.

Hello!

 

[Mickiel]

Do you think God would tell you to kill your son? If he did, would that be a good thing? Well he told Abram to do it, sacrifice his own son; but he stopped him from doing it; but he wanted to know if Abram would do it. That wasn't such a nice thing, now was it? Somethingelse interesting that God did in 1 Kings 22:23, " Now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets, and God has spoken evil concerning them."

Interesting, this God we serve, and what we THINK he is like.

Here God himself actually places a spirit of lying inside of these prophets, then he speaks evil about them.

Hello!

God does this same thing again in 2 Chron. 18:21-22. He puts a lying spirit inside of the consciousness of these men, then he speaks evil about them.

Hello!

God can do anything he wants to do, and its absolutely nothing any believer in him can do about it.

You can't tell me what God won't do; and nobody can tell him what he cannot do.

 

[Mickiel]

I don't think people understand how God really is, the things he will do. In Job 3:23, " Why is light given to a man whose way is hid and whom God has " Hedged in?" Here God is blinding a man from what he could do to get himself right; and actually putting the man in a trap; keeping him in a certain situation, or hedged in. And God does stuff like this all the time. In Eccle. 7:13, " Consider the work of God; for who can make straight that which he has made crooked?" Right here in scripture we plainly see that God will Make a human crooked! God will bend the life of a human over and plaster them to the ground! And not let them up; and that is called " The work of God."

Right here in scripture.

 

[serpentdove]

I don't think people understand how God really is, the things he will do. In Job 3:23, " Why is light given to a man whose way is hid and whom God has " Hedged in?"

Job would rather die. " Jb 3:23 hedged in. Satan spoke of a hedge of protection and blessing (1:10), whereas Job spoke of this hedge as a prison of living death." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 700). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[Mickiel]

As of today, I have used 430 scriptures in thread.

 

[serpentdove]

God doesn't set up or tempt ANYONE. He gave men a choice. They chose evil. Still do...

Yes. Adam and Eve were created perfectly (Ge 1:31). The world changed after the fall of man (Rom. 5:12–19). Now, men in Adam die (1 Cor. 15:22).

The spiritual consequences of the fall are: separated from God (Eph. 4:18), being born in sin (John 3:6), evil in heart (Matt. 15:19), corrupt and perverse (Rom. 3:12–16), in bondage to sin (Rom. 6:19), in bondage to Satan (Heb. 2:14, 15), dead in sin (Col. 2:13), spiritually blind (Eph. 4:18), utterly depraved (Titus 1:15), change from, not in man (Jer. 2:22), only God can change (John 3:16). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 220). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

 

[Aimiel]

Do you think God would tell you to kill your son? If he did, would that be a good thing? Well he told Abram to do it, sacrifice his own son; but he stopped him from doing it; but he wanted to know if Abram would do it. That wasn't such a nice thing, now was it? Something else interesting that God did in 1 Kings 22:23, " Now the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets, and God has spoken evil concerning them."

He still never did anything evil. Ever.

Interesting, this God we serve, and what we THINK he is like.

Because your imagination is so limited and comes short of understanding Truth doesn't make your fables into Truth.

 

[Aimiel]

God can do anything he wants to do, and its absolutely nothing any believer in him can do about it.

You can't tell me what God won't do; and nobody can tell him what he cannot do.

I can tell you that God has never done anything evil. He is Holy. He won't sin... that would violate His Character. He won't ever be 'not God'.

 

[Mickiel]

I can tell you that God has never done anything evil. He is Holy. He won't sin... that would violate His Character. He won't ever be 'not God'.

I can tell you that God not only created evil, of which I showed you the biblical verse, he uses evil, I showed you that, he puts lies in prophets mouths and speaks evil about them, I showed you that, he does evil to his own servants, the book of Job proves that; he creates crooked humans, I showed you that,

now let me show you one more thing about God, he had us all born in sin and heavily influenced by it, Ps. 51:5. In sin and evil we all were born into it with absolutely no choice. Shaped by it, BECAUSE God willed it. I am saying that God can do whatever he wants to do, he can cause evil to do its thing on earth, and that in no manner means that he himself is evil; no. But to say that God has never done anything evil, is just not knowing scripture. Now God never has " Personally done the evil", but he has had others do it for him.

The devil does everything God tells him to do. God completely controls him. In fact, God " Ordained the devil"; look at Rom. 13:1, " Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but OF God! the powers that be ARE ORDAINED OF GOD!" The devil is surely a " Power that be." There would be no evil if God did not want it to be.

 

[Mickiel]

Evil was created to be overcomed and finally disposed of. God uses evil, but he is never overcome by it; he overcomes it with his goodness, Rom. 12:21. Evil is part of the creation of humanity, that is why God first " Planted", or created, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, notice both grow from the same tree, although they are completely different fruits. Both come from the same source.

We all were pre destined to " Become like God', one of those ways is to " Know good and evil." Gen. 3:22, God said' The man has become like one of us, knowing both good and evil." To have the knowledge of evil is part of God's plan of salvation. He wanted us to know this stuff; experience it; live with it; see for ourselves the effect of it. I don't think even angels have experienced this. Not the good angels. Evil is like acid, it simply is destructive.

And it did not exist before God created humanity, because its part of our creation.

 

[serpentdove]

As of today, I have used 430 scriptures in thread.

You misuse scripture (2 Pet. 3:15–17, Jas 3:1) like your father (Jn 8:44, Matt. 4:6, 2 Cor. 2:11). You will be punished for it (Rev. 22:18–20). :burnlib:

 

[serpentdove]

"...Rom. 12:21. Evil is part of the creation of humanity..."

The world was made good Ge 1:31). Satan (John 12:31) and Adam rebelled against God (Rom. 5:12–19). Satan cannot be redeemed (John 16:11, Matt. 25:41). Men in Adam can be redeemed (Jn 3:16).

"Spiritual Gifts (Ro 12:3–21)

Believers’ dedication to God and the accompanying transformed lifestyle is lived out through the exercise of spiritual gifts (see 1 Cor. 12–14). Christians are to live together in love as members of Christ’s body, the church. With their various gifts they are to serve one another. The rest of the chapter consists of a series of short exhortations that focus on the outworking of love in all relationships and under all circumstances." Dockery, D. S. (1998). The Pauline Letters. In D. S. Dockery (Ed.), Holman concise Bible commentary (p. 550). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers.

"We all were pre destined to " Become like God'...Gen. 3:22...Evil is like acid, it simply is destructive."

Men in the flesh (Jn 3:6) are spiritually dead (Eph 2:1). They are unable (Jn 3:3,5) to be regenerated without the spirit of God (John 3:5, 8; Titus 3:5).

"...t [evil] did not exist before God created humanity..."

Lucifer fell before Adam (Is. 14:12).

"...ecause it's [evil] part of our creation."

God made all things good (Ge 1:31).

 

[freelight]

Good and evil are relative descriptions.....

Good and evil are relative descriptions.....

I can tell you that God not only created evil, of which I showed you the biblical verse, he uses evil, I showed you that, he puts lies in prophets mouths and speaks evil about them, I showed you that, he does evil to his own servants, the book of Job proves that; he creates crooked humans, I showed you that,

now let me show you one more thing about God, he had us all born in sin and heavily influenced by it, Ps. 51:5. In sin and evil we all were born into it with absolutely no choice. Shaped by it, BECAUSE God willed it. I am saying that God can do whatever he wants to do, he can cause evil to do its thing on earth, and that in no manner means that he himself is evil; no. But to say that God has never done anything evil, is just not knowing scripture. Now God never has " Personally done the evil", but he has had others do it for him.

The devil does everything God tells him to do. God completely controls him. In fact, God " Ordained the devil"; look at Rom. 13:1, " Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but OF God! the powers that be ARE ORDAINED OF GOD!" The devil is surely a " Power that be." There would be no evil if God did not want it to be.

In this world of 'dualism', of course there are the relative values or degrees of both 'good' and 'evil', this whole realm of conditional existence is a world of 'contrasts',...all possibilities and probabilities existing in their potentiality or actuality. Hence, if you want to assume 'God' is the originator of all potentials,....then that obviously includes 'evil' and an endless list of conditions that are possible.

Now as to whether the Lord or Satan put lying spirits in people's mouths, there appears to be tampering with the passages here as later scribes went in and 'edited' the verse, since there are 2 differing accounts (I cant quote the verse at the moment, if any can find it). So,...scribes were even quibbling over whether the Lord or Satan was doing certain evil actions, so they could alternate at times, and lay the blame on Satan, who still is anyways, the Lord's servant, so it all comes out in the wash the same anyways,...since all happens or is allowed in the Lord's providence, whether he personally does something or does it by some other 'agency'.

Dualism must ultimately accept its source in the non-dual ream of origination, the universal unity or primal oneness of life itself (remember, 'God' is One and so 'Creation' is One, no matter how dualistic or multifarious it is), which is prior to duality, yet includes and transcends it, so that ultimately the play of creative potentials is ever arising as a phenomena in space-time, nothing happening outside of divine providence.

All comes from the infinite One, and returns to the infinite One, since the infinite One is All There IS. - only we humans differentiate, denominate, describe, judge between various conditions and contrasts arising in the total spectrum of potentials and possibilities. 'Hell' is just another possibility of one's experience that is contrasted to 'heaven', and can be remedied by satisfying the requirements to makes its condition a reality in consciousness, just as 'sin' is a transgression of any law of harmony that makes for one's own suffering.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

In this world of 'dualism', of course there are the relative values or degrees of both 'good' and 'evil', this whole realm of conditional existence is a world of 'contrasts',...all possibilities and probabilities existing in their potentiality or actuality. Hence, if you want to assume 'God' is the originator of all potentials,....then that obviously includes 'evil' and an endless list of conditions that are possible.

Now as to whether the Lord or Satan put lying spirits in people's mouths, there appears to be tampering with the passages here as later scribes went in and 'edited' the verse, since there are 2 differing accounts (I cant quote the verse at the moment, if any can find it). So,...scribes were even quibbling over whether the Lord or Satan was doing certain evil actions, so they could alternate at times, and lay the blame on Satan, who still is anyways, the Lord's servant, so it all comes out in the wash the same anyways,...since all happens or is allowed in the Lord's providence, whether he personally does something or does it by some other 'agency'.

Dualism must ultimately accept its source in the non-dual ream of origination, the universal unity or primal oneness of life itself (remember, 'God' is One and so 'Creation' is One, no matter how dualistic or multifarious it is), which is prior to duality, yet includes and transcends it, so that ultimately the play of creative potentials is ever arising as a phenomena in space-time, nothing happening outside of divine providence.

All comes from the infinite One, and returns to the infinite One, since the infinite One is All There IS. - only we humans differentiate, denominate, describe, judge between various conditions and contrasts arising in the total spectrum of potentials and possibilities. 'Hell' is just another possibility of one's experience that is contrasted to 'heaven', and can be remedied by satisfying the requirements to makes its condition a reality in consciousness, just as 'sin' is a transgression of any law of harmony that makes for one's own suffering.

Exactly right. The concept of heaven and hell is a reflection of the fragmentation that dwells inside us. We think it's okay to live like this and the enemy slowly turns up the madness level without our noticing. The adversary does everything in its power to prevent us from looking on the inside and discovering that we are one with infinite and eternal divinity. The personality knows it will lose control when it obtains self-realization. It is scared of the unknown and of loss of identity. Consider that when I had my spiritual awakening I tried to throw myself in what I took to be hell because I thought it would be better for me to be there than to continue living. Guess what? I didn't get hell. I got heaven.

And why are we so focused on discussing this issue of hell when we don't even know heaven in the first place? Are we too proud to see how negatively we are focused here? Why not start a thread about why God would need a heaven instead? Most people don't even notice that all this talk about hell is turning our attention away from God. And we wonder what's wrong with the world. Are we contributing to the madness or helping ourselves and others overcome? If we keep focusing on hell just like the news media feeds us violence and negativity then we are unconsciously being controlled with fear. Fear does not come from God. Wake up people!

 

[Mickiel]

The most biblically correct way to put this, is that God " Had evil created", for his purpose. What many do not know, is that really Jesus did all the creating. Notice John 1:3, " ALL things were made by him, ( Christ, the Word), and without him was not anything made that was made." So Jesus actually created the physical universe and humanity. And the 24 elders on God's throne, and all the Angels, and satan and his demons. But did so under God's direction. I think where the universe is concerned, God just kind of let Jesus indulge himself in his great power!

Jesus must really be a VERY powerful being!

Notice verse 10, " He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." Here it just comes right out again and reveals that it was Jesus who created the world! So actually Jesus created satan and evil, God did not personally do it, but he had it done. And this is WHY they will not allow evil to destroy the eternal future of a human, because they fashioned our existence and exposed us to sin.

Sin and evil did not create itself, nothing that powerful has self evolution, without Christ, was not ANYTHING made that exist.

 

[Apple7]

Jesus must really be a VERY powerful being!

Jesus is God.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus is God.

From all my studies of the bible, I think I'll go with what God himself spoke on this matter in Isaiah 45:21-22, the Father spoke; " There is no God besides me, ( and Jesus was sitting next to him when he said this), For I am God and there is no other." The Father decides this unusual argument for me.

Now, is Jesus a God? Now I think that is certainly possible; he is the Son of a God. He himself could well be considered a God, but he is not God the Father, living in some kind of weird symbiosis with him, no! They are two separate beings.

I am not really sure just what Jesus is now. I really don't know.

I am not quite sure what God is either. I think they both are VERY powerful, awesome, incredible enigmatic beings.

 

[Apple7]

From all my studies of the bible, I think I'll go with what God himself spoke on this matter in Isaiah 45:21-22, the Father spoke; " There is no God besides me, ( and Jesus was sitting next to him when he said this), For I am God and there is no other." The Father decides this unusual argument for me.

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