When does the biblical day begin?

[Hawkins]

Never mind :carryon:

Hi jamie,

I incline more to the following,

http://jesus-messiah.com/html/passover-dates-26-34ad.html


In AD 30 the last super was on Wednesday. Jesus was crucified on Thursday and buried at sundown of Thursday which began the Friday. On the third day (which is Sunday) He was resurrected. On the first day (after His crucifixion) is a Friday, on the third day is thus a Sunday. At the same time, Thursday, Friday and Saturday are the 3 days and nights He was handed over to the darkness.

Luke 22:53 (NIV2011)
Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns.

The above marks the beginning of the dark hours.



Similar verses can be found in Matthew and Mark.

Matthew 26:45 (NIV2011)
Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour has come, and the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Aligned perfectly? Your "God's Calendar" is aligned perfectly? It has the same correction method as the current Jewish calendar.

Not to mention that even with imperfect alignment, the Jewish calendar is not a strictly solar calendar. It is lunar-solar. And you know it.

No, the original lunar solar calendar in the Bible that Moses and Jesus etc used is aliened perfectly to the orbit of the moon around the Earth and the Earth around the sun. While the current modern Jewish fixed solar calendar that Hillel II created in 359 AD is only aliened to the orbit of the Earth around the sun while it's months are mathematically calculated to Metonic lunar cycle that runs on a repeating 19 year cycle, just as I have explained over and over and have provided linked information for you to read and see this for yourself:

http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm

I am not trying to deceive you or anyone, it is just the facts of the situation.

 

[chair]

No, the original lunar solar calendar in the Bible that Moses and Jesus etc used is aliened perfectly to the orbit of the moon around the Earth and the Earth around the sun. While the current modern Jewish fixed solar calendar is only aliened to the orbit of the Earth around the sun while it's months are mathematically calculated to Metonic lunar cycle that runs on a repeating 19 year cycle, just as I have explained over and over and have provided linked information for you to read and see this for yourself:

http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm

I am not trying to deceive you or anyone, it is just the facts of the situation.

The only one you are deceiving is yourself. The calculated lunar calendar is designed to match what the moon does. There is no such thing as a "urrent modern Jewish fixed solar calendar". The calendar is lunar, and "leap months" are added sometimes to keep the lunar calendar in sync with the seasons.

Go back and carefully read the source you just linked t:
"Holidays are celebrated on the same day of the Jewish calendar every year, but the Jewish year is not the same length as a solar year on the civil calendar used by most of the western world, so the date shifts on the civil calendar"

"The lunar month on the Jewish calendar begins when the first sliver of moon becomes visible after the dark of the moon. In ancient times, the new months used to be determined by observation. "

"In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years."

You really have your facts messed up.

Is this "God's Calendar" your own idea? You seem dead-set on defending it, even at the cost of inaccuracy in reporting facts.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The only one you are deceiving is yourself. The calculated lunar calendar is designed to match what the moon does. There is no such thing as a "urrent modern Jewish fixed solar calendar". The calendar is lunar, and "leap months" are added sometimes to keep the lunar calendar in sync with the seasons.

Go back and carefully read the source you just linked t:
"Holidays are celebrated on the same day of the Jewish calendar every year, but the Jewish year is not the same length as a solar year on the civil calendar used by most of the western world, so the date shifts on the civil calendar"

"The lunar month on the Jewish calendar begins when the first sliver of moon becomes visible after the dark of the moon. In ancient times, the new months used to be determined by observation. "

"In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years."

You really have your facts messed up.

Is this "God's Calendar" your own idea? You seem dead-set on defending it, even at the cost of inaccuracy in reporting facts.

At last you are beginning to grasp some of what I have been trying to explain. As it says the ancient Jewish calendar used visual sightings of the new moon (from Jerusalem) but Hillel in 359AD made the new calendar using the repeating 19 year Metonic cycle (which is not 100% accurate to when the new moon actually is but is close enough) this was because 1. the Jews were not allowed to go near Jerusalem under pain of death; because of the Simon Bar Kokbar revolt in 135 AD and 2. because the Jewish people were now living so far away from Israel that coordinating new moon days to be celebrated in the same day could be done.

You see what was happening was as the Jews moved further to the east and to the west it meant that their new moon days were being celebrated on different days to each other. This is why Hillel made the new calendar that fixed the new moon to a mathematically calculated day rather than the visually sighted new moon.

If you understand this one historical fact that's great and therefore you might now begin to see what I am also trying to explain about when the Julian calendar was invented, and for which I left a post for you, and a message, but you have not replied to. Did you see it? Or are you deliberately not replying because you can't answer it with backing down?:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...believe-in-God-s-Lunar-Solar-Sabbath-Calendar

 

[chair]

At last you are beginning to grasp some of what I have been trying to explain. As it says the ancient Jewish calendar used visual sightings of the new moon (from Jerusalem) but Hillel in 359AD made the new calendar using the repeating 19 year Metonic cycle (which is not 100% accurate to when the new moon actually is but is close enough) this was because 1. the Jews were not allowed to go near Jerusalem under pain of death; because of the Simon Bar Kokbar revolt in 135 AD and 2. because the Jewish people were now living so far away from Israel that coordinating new moon days to be celebrated in the same day could be done.

You see what was happening was as the Jews moved further to the east and to the west it meant that their new moon days were being celebrated on different days to each other. This is why Hillel made the new calendar that fixed the new moon to a mathematically calculated day rather than the visually sighted new moon.

If you understand this one historical fact that's great and therefore you might now begin to see what I am also trying to explain about when the Julian calendar was invented, and for which I left a post for you, and a message, but you have not replied to. Did you see it? Or are you deliberately not replying because you can't answer it with backing down?:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...believe-in-God-s-Lunar-Solar-Sabbath-Calendar

Nothing "at last" about this. I have known this for the past 50 years. You are covering up for your own lack of knowledge by insulting me- just bloody well stop it, and pay attention to what I write.

You have something to explain or apologize for. You claimed that (post 575)

"The modern Jewish calendar does not need to sight the new moon as it rely's on the 19 year Metonic lunar cycle that is mathematically calculated (and so is a solar calendar only): "​

This is nonsense, and I suggest you admit it.

I read your other post, but did not see any evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was based on the Julian one. Just your assertion that this was the case- along with a statistical argument (1 out of 7 chance).

Where is the real evidence? The rabbinical record of this happening? Roman sources? Church fathers? Josephus. Anything at all?

 

[jamie]

In AD 30 the last super was on Wednesday. Jesus was crucified on Thursday

If Jesus was crucified on the 15th, the feast day, then his tomb was guarded and sealed until Monday, three days from Pilate's decree.

Or are you claiming Jesus is not the Passover?

Why do you reject scripture?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Nothing "at last" about this. I have known this for the past 50 years. You are covering up for your own lack of knowledge by insulting me- just bloody well stop it, and pay attention to what I write.

You have something to explain or apologize for. You claimed that (post 575)

"The modern Jewish calendar does not need to sight the new moon as it rely's on the 19 year Metonic lunar cycle that is mathematically calculated (and so is a solar calendar only): "​

This is nonsense, and I suggest you admit it.

I read your other post, but did not see any evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was based on the Julian one. Just your assertion that this was the case- along with a statistical argument (1 out of 7 chance).

Where is the real evidence? The rabbinical record of this happening? Roman sources? Church fathers? Josephus. Anything at all?

"I have known this for the past 50 years." Brilliant! Perhaps you'll eventually say the same as well about what I'm trying to explain to you in the other post because you're clearly not understanding it at the moment from what you've said:

"read your other post, but did not see any evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was based on the Julian one. Just your assertion that this was the case- along with a statistical argument (1 out of 7 chance).

Where is the real evidence? The rabbinical record of this happening? Roman sources? Church fathers? Josephus. Anything at all?"

To clarify the ancient Jewish Sabbath was originally based on the Lunar months and fixed to day's 8, 15, 22 & 29 but the modern Jewish Sabbath is now fixed to Friday - Saturday on the Solar Julian/Gregorian calendar. As I said in that post, you can't find any evidence for the current rolling 7 day week going back to Adam, as the evidence only shows it starting in 46BC. If you first understood what I am explaining in that post and then tried to find the evidence for the current 7 day rolling week existing before 46BC, you would see it does not exist, but you need to understand what I am saying first:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread...bbath-Calendar

 

[chair]

"I have known this for the past 50 years." Brilliant! Perhaps you'll eventually say the same as well about what I'm trying to explain to you in the other post because you're clearly not understanding it at the moment from what you've said:

"read your other post, but did not see any evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was based on the Julian one. Just your assertion that this was the case- along with a statistical argument (1 out of 7 chance).

Where is the real evidence? The rabbinical record of this happening? Roman sources? Church fathers? Josephus. Anything at all?"

To clarify the ancient Jewish Sabbath was originally based on the Lunar months and fixed to day's 8, 15, 22 & 29 but the modern Jewish Sabbath is now fixed to Friday - Saturday on the Solar Julian/Gregorian calendar. As I said in that post, you can't find any evidence for the current rolling 7 day week going back to Adam, as the evidence only shows it starting in 46BC. If you first understood what I am explaining in that post and then tried to find the evidence for the current 7 day rolling week existing before 46BC, you would see it does not exist, but you need to understand what I am saying first:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread...bbath-Calendar

You keep saying the same things over and over again. You haven't provided any evidence. "To clarify" isn't evidence.

I give up.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You keep saying the same things over and over again. You haven't provided any evidence. "To clarify" isn't evidence.

I give up.

Why don't you just say I'm right and that you've know it for 50 years. :BRAVO:

 

[chair]

Why don't you just say I'm right and that you've know it for 50 years. :BRAVO:

Because you are wrong and wasting my time.

We know how our calendar works. I've know since I was a child. We don't need a "genius" like you to explain it. Your "god's calendar" theory would be useful in my rose garden.

 

[clefty]

If Jesus was crucified on the 15th, the feast day, then his tomb was guarded and sealed until Monday, three days from Pilate's decree.

So He had to wait for the guard duty to end?

Matt 28 has the guards still there when the tombstone door was rolled open revealing an emptied tomb that first day of the week...why are they there if the 3 days of guarding have past?...they went to tell the priests what happened BEFORE their guard duty ended...

And of course He is the Passover...He died as the lambs were being slaughtered...the Wrath of Yah saw the shedding of His blood and passes over...

just like in exodus when that same day the lambs were killed and eaten at midnight He passed over seeing the blood on the door posts

Just like every thank offering is eaten the same day it is offered none left over until the morning...the next day

 

[jamie]

And of course He is the Passover...He died as the lambs were being slaughtered

The Passover was killed on the afternoon of the 14th.

 

[clefty]

The Passover was killed on the afternoon of the 14th.

Yup

and eaten that same night...as the Wrath passed over at midnight (the same day at night)none of it to be left before the next day 15th which starts at dawn...which came after the passing over on the 14th

All thank offerings are to be consumed the same day they are offered...none left for the next day starting in the morning...

Unless its a voluntary thank offering then it was still ok to eat it the next day...which of course started at dawn...

Lev 7:16 If, however, their offering is the result of a vow or is a freewill offering, the sacrifice shall be eaten on the day they offer it, but anything left over may be eaten on the next day...

KJV says "on the morrow"...

 

[jamie]

and eaten that same night

Passover killed on the 14th and eaten that night with unleavened bread.

Unleavened bread must be eaten on the 15th through the 21st.

 

[clefty]

Passover killed on the 14th and eaten that night with unleavened bread.

Unleavened bread must be eaten on the 15th through the 21st.

"It is the consensus of historical scholarship that the Christian church (East or West) did not ordinarily use unleavened bread in communion until the 9th century A.D. The only exceptions to this are the Ebionites and the Armenian Church who introduced unleavened bread in the 7th century. The Greeks were right. The received liturgical tradition was in the form of common leavened bread."

http://stonedcampbelldisciple.com/2...-ancient-controversy-that-changed-the-supper/

I try to follow scripture not the traditions of man...men tend to make changes for personal gain and power

 

[jamie]

"It is the consensus of historical scholarship that the Christian church (East or West) did not ordinarily use unleavened bread in communion

Communion? Jesus was killed as the Passover.

"Now on the first of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, 'Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?'" (Matthew 26:17)

The first of Unleavened Bread refers to the preparation of the feast.

Unleavened bread had to be prepared beforehand.

The Jews didn't take communion.

 

[clefty]

Communion? Jesus was killed as the Passover.

yup and after the last supper communion...and on the next day the 14th as the lambs were being slaughtered at the temple...

The Jews didn't take communion.

that first one was with a room full of Jews...not a gentile among them...Paul did and gave clarifying instructions to other Jews on how to properly celebrate communion...oh and to the gentiles...

 

[jamie]

Communion? Define communion.

 

[clefty]

Communion? Define communion.

Define define

 

[jamie]

Define define

Yeah, I didn't think you knew what it is.

I've never taken communion but I've seen others.

As far as I can tell it has nothing to do with Passover.