beloved57
Well-known member
Even after Jesus Christ has done all God required to save sinners from their sins, pateism says that was not enough because sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways!
What God Requires For Our Salvation
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Even after Jesus Christ has done all God required to save sinners from their sins, pateism says that was not enough because sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways!
Ask Mr. Religion
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Our Lord clearly states that His blood is poured out for “many,” not for “all” (Matt. 26:28). His death is not effectual for all people who have ever lived; Christ’s death is effectual only for His people.
Our Lord's atonement was definite, not indefinite; that is, the atonement was for a known, specific amount of persons (John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9;John 17:22; John 18:9) that no man can number from among the peoples of the world (Rev. 7:9).
Given the definite nature of Our Lord's atonement, it is no wonder Scripture speaks to unconditional election of those given to Our Lord: Deuteronomy 7:6-8, Deuteronomy 10:14-15, Lamentations 5:21, Isaiah 55:11, Amos 3:2, Jeremiah 1:5, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 24:22-24, Matthew 24:31, Luke 12:6-7, John 6:37-39, John 6:44, John 6:65, John 15:16, John 17:19, Acts 2:23, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48, Acts 17:26, Acts 18:27, Romans 8:28-39, Romans 9:11-16, Romans 11:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, 1 Corinthians 8:3, Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:4-10, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Philippians 1:29, Philippians 2:12-13, 1 Timothy 5:21, 2 Timothy 1:9-10, 2 Timothy 2:19, 2 Timothy 2:25, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 1:5-11.
Your problem, Robert, is that you cannot find a single verse of Scripture that teaches what you claim Scripture teaches as relates to election unto salvation:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...redestinated&p=4851757&viewfull=1#post4851757
Thanks be to God for that, too.
AMR
Last edited:
Nanja
Well-known member
Pate
The work of honoring God's Son by a carnal man still in the flesh cannot please God!
Rom. 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Period!
~~~
The work of honoring God's Son by a carnal man still in the flesh cannot please God!
Rom. 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Period!
~~~
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Nanja
Well-known member
Your quoting of scripture proves nothing if you haven't been Given John 3:27 understanding of it!
~~~
Quoting the scripture shows its significance. Now does the scripture say?
1 Corinthians 15:1-4King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
oly:
Nanja
Well-known member
Why is it that some of humanity are Saved, yet some were condemned already John 3:18, 36?
~~~
Because of their belief or unbelief.
Nanja
Well-known member
And what exactly is it that determines whether one's belief or unbelief pleases God?
~~~
Freewill choice.
Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Nanja
Well-known member
Totally wrong according to the scriptures!
An unregenerate man's confessing and believing, or any other works he does, are just filthy works of the flesh Is. 64:6 which cannot please God!
Rom. 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
~~~
What happens if you are of the elect and you don't want to be?
Nanja
Well-known member
Guess that you have no answer for the question.
Ask Mr. Religion
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No non-believer genuinely wants or is able to seek after God's righteousness (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14), hence, thanks be to God for election (John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9;John 17:22; John 18:9). Once regenerated (born anew), the non-believer instantaneously will genuinely want, will be able, and will not not believe.
Election is unto an end, that is salvation, not to salvation. In other words, under ordinary circumstances, the elect will come to faith from the hearing of the Good News, being regenerated, now able and wanting to believe, per God's gift of faith, then irrevocably believing.
Faith must include "choice," if by that is meant an act of the will. Faith is simply the man believing. Man thinks, wills, and affects. Therefore faith is defined in terms of knowledge, assent, and trust. It is certain that man cannot will anything spiritually good in a fallen and unregenerate condition, but it is equally certain that when a man is regenerated he is enabled to believe in Our Lord for salvation. God does not believe for him. God works in him to will and to do of His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).
Hebrews 11:1 provides a definition of what faith does rather than what faith is. It is describing the function rather than the nature of faith. It is regrettable that it has been translated by some in subjective terms when it is indicating something that is objective.
That Hebrews 11:1 speaks of the function of faith, not the nature of it, is clear from the context, which is believing to the saving of the soul, Hebrews 10:38-39.
AMR
Scriptures plainly say that people were born anew through the resurrection of Christ, NOT through his coming to faith from the hearing of the Good News.
ESV 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
People have NOTHING to do with their being born again other than as beneficiaries. Man's participation is in their response to God's call for every man everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). This is the same call God issued in the OT (Ezek 18:30); the same call made by the Savior in the gospel that He preached (Mark 1:14, 15).
And because every man everywhere is COMMANDED to repent, it simply follows that every man is CAPABLE of repenting, having been EMPOWERED, having been born again through the resurrection of Jesus. And no one is exempted from complying with that command, because God through Christ will judge the world in righteousness (Acts 17:30, 31) and reward each one according to what each has done, (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12).
Repentance is change of mind for that which is good. Instead of doing evil, one changes his mind and does good. IOW, he overcomes evil with good (Rom 12:21). Christ assures us that overcomers will He not blot out from the book of life but will be seated with Him in His throne as He also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:5, 21). All NOT blotted out will be ushered into the heavenly portals (Rev 21:27). All blotted out will have portion in the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).
Ben Masada
New member
If you read Ecclesiastes 7:29, HaShem created man perfect as a man and, when he reached the age of moral awareness he ill-used his attribute of Freewill to go after many evil reasoning.
beloved57
Well-known member
Is that when man began to think God was golden calf?
beloved57
Well-known member
Faith to believe in Christ is a work of the regenerated mind and or heart.
The word work means:
activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something:
So if a person says that they were saved or justified before God based and conditioned on their faith or believing, they are claiming it by their works!