The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

[jeremysdemo]

Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.


You have misinterpreted those verses.

How does the question make no sense?
You question how easily the Old Testament people could come to Christ.
You’ve lied if you’ve denied the common ground you’ve shared with Nicodemus.

One who has genuine everlasting life won’t have it quit on him it if he fails to persevere for it!

Don't expect Clete to tarry with you for any distance required by Jesus.

Once he sees he has no ground or ammunition he usually resorts to name calling or flakes out , case in point this thread.
He truly shows no interest in discussing what Jesus taught or said, only pushing his own beliefs and agendas which have nothing to do with the man and rabbi Yeshua.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[thelaqachisnext]

True or false:

It is possible that Enoch was written after Isaiah and the author was quoting Isaiah?

No, Enoch was not written after Isaiah, and Jesus quoted Enoch directly many times, in specific things which are written no place else but Enoch.-So did Paul quote Enoch for many of the things he wrote, they were not unique to Paul, but to Enoch, and scribes brought the prophets' writings 'out' to give the sense of them, and Paul was a scribe, not a prophet as Enoch was.

Prophets in the OT tell us the hills and mountains will melt, but Enoch tells us specifically they are the 7 "metal mountains" which rule over the earth, [with hills], which are all powers of the wicked rulers', the rulers of darkness, in earth's own heaven's dominion, which will melt like wax at the coming of the Son of Man to rule.
.

Jesus directly quoted Enoch about Judas, in Mark 14:21 -as Peter directly quoted David about Judas, in Acts 1, from two different Psalms; 69 &109.

Jesus directly quoted Enoch about the names of the disciples being written in heaven, in Luke 10:20.
Jesus directly quoted Enoch about His coming on the throne of glory and Caiaiphas seeing him coming -which sent Caiaphas into a hissy fit.

Jesus directly quoted Enoch about the Father having committed all judgment to the Son.

Hannah directly quoted Enoch in 1 Samuel 2:8 -and David also did.

on Judas; Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.


names written in heaven; Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Enoch

[Chapter 103]

1 Now, therefore, I swear to you, the righteous, by the glory of the Great and Honoured and 2 Mighty One in dominion, and by His greatness I swear to you.
I know a mystery
And have read the heavenly tablets,
And have seen the holy books,
And have found written therein and inscribed regarding them:

3 That all goodness and joy and glory are prepared for them,
And written down for the spirits of those who have died in righteousness,
And that manifold good shall be given to you in recompense for your labours,
And that your lot is abundantly beyond the lot of the living.

4 And the spirits of you who have died in righteousness shall live and rejoice,
And their spirits shall not perish, nor their memorial from before the face of the Great One
Unto all the generations of the world: wherefore no longer fear their contumely.

...
10 And we have been destroyed and have not found any to help us even with a word:
We have been tortured [and destroyed], and not hoped to see life from day to day.
....
[Chapter 104]

1 I swear unto you, that in heaven the angels remember you for good before the glory of the Great 2 One: and your names are written before the glory of the Great One. Be hopeful; for aforetime ye were put to shame through ill and affliction; but now ye shall shine as the lights of heaven, 3 ye shall shine and ye shall be seen, and the portals of heaven shall be opened to you. And in your cry, cry for judgement, and it shall appear to you; for all your tribulation shall be visited on the 4 rulers, and on all who helped those who plundered you. Be hopeful, and cast not away your hopes for ye shall have great joy as the angels of heaven. What shall ye be obliged to do ? Ye shall not have to hide on the day of the great judgement and ye shall not be found as sinners, and the eternal 6 judgement shall be far from you for all the generations of the world. And now fear not, ye righteous, when ye see the sinners growing strong and prospering in their ways: be not companions with them, 7 but keep afar from their violence; for ye shall become companions of the hosts of heaven. And, although ye sinners say: " All our sins shall not be searched out and be written down," nevertheless 8 they shall write down all your sins every day. And now I show unto you that light and darkness, 9 day and night, see all your sins. Be not godless in your hearts, and lie not and alter not the words of uprightness, nor charge with lying the words of the Holy Great One

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Enoch 69;

25 And this oath is mighty over them
And through it [they are preserved and] their paths are preserved,
And their course is not destroyed.

26 And there was great joy amongst them,
And they blessed and glorified and extolled
Because the name of that Son of Man had been revealed unto them.

27 And he sat on the throne of his glory,
And the sum of judgement was given unto the Son of Man,
And he caused the sinners to pass away and be destroyed from off the face of the earth,
And those who have led the world astray.

28 With chains shall they be bound,
And in their assemblage-place of destruction shall they be imprisoned,
And all their works vanish from the face of the earth.

29 And from henceforth there shall be nothing corruptible;
For that Son of Man has appeared,
And has seated himself on the throne of his glory,
And all evil shall pass away before his face,
And the word of that Son of Man shall go forth

And be strong before the Lord of Spirits.

 

[Lighthouse]

The New Man for earth is promised from the beginning and patterned in the heavenly temple which Moses copied.
The New Man is the second human being created, opposed to the old man, the first creation human being; and is the Only Begotten of the Father -as the first, firstborn of earth is dead to the Father and the Father's glory has not dwelt in Adam since the fall -and will never dwell in Adam, the defiled 'clay vessel' [as pr the law]; and Adam is to be cut off [circumcision signed that, performed on the new born male born of AbraHAm on the 8th day] and the Kinsman/Redeemer adopts all in Adam [whosoever will] as His own seed, as sons of God by that adoption.

The New Man is the "Everlasting Father", the "Mighty God", of this earth "as to His human position of Firstborn of the Father", the chosen "Root", which the Father planted [made the New Man body in the womb of the virgin, as a human being for earth; our very own everliving 'Isyh -Isaiah 59], for His glory to indwell.

If you are not graft into the Root, which is the New Man, by the adoption into His New Man Living Spriit [the new or second birth of Spirit] then you are not going to inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven/the Son/Christ -all one and the same kingdom.

Could you put that in layman's terms?

 

[Bob Hill]

Let's not forget that this thread is about "The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace", which is the most important thing we should understand in our present Dispensation of Grace.

God compelled a guy called Saul to know Him, and made him the Apostle Paul.

God gave him a different gospel and dispensation from Peter and the eleven, and for that matter, every other dispensation in the Bible.

Peter and the eleven preached the gospel of the circumcision, which was a continuation of Israel’s law.

Paul was given a dispensation that was the mystery, never revealed before God gave him [/b[, the Dispensation of Grace.

Paul gave us both sides of the incident he had on the way to Damascus.
1 Cor 9:17-18 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a dispensation. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Tico]

election by grace???

election by grace???

Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


Sorry if this ground has been covered (I'm new to this thread). For those who hold anti-MAD positions, I have a question: Was there a time when election was of works in light of the fact that Paul says that it NO LONGER is?

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Could you put that in layman's terms?

Yes, I can begin it for you from the beginning -
God created the earth for Adam "son of God" to be his dominion. Psalm 115:16
Adam lost the dominion and was no longer 'son of God', in his death of separation from the glory, because of the defilement.

We are all seed of Adam and dead in spirit when we come into our being, and our inheritance 'in Adam' was lost and corrupted, with no one able, in Adam, to ransom it with any acceptable price. Haggai chapter 2

There was no "husband"/servant for earth; which word in Hebrew is 'Isyh', to bring forth deliverance of the kingdom by righteousness, and who could redeem the sons of God back, for the Father's glory to indwell. Isaiah 59 "There was no 'Isyh' to bring forth justice and do the Father's will, so He clothed Himself with the garments of "vengeance =Kinsman/Redeemer, and His created flesh nature is that New Man, and His Spirit is the Everlasting Spirit, called Christ, which clothed Himself with the garment of New Man nature.

So YHWH Himself took upon Himself a created second human being body, to come in flesh of human kind, to be the Deliverer; Judge; Husband; Everlasting Father [as a human being] and the Mighty God of this lost kingdom, to Ransom it back for the Father's glory to fill, and to do the duty of Kinsman to His dead in spirit, [Adam] brother's family.

His name as the New 'Isyh is "Israel"; and He is not of the corrupt dust, but is the Living Spirit from above come to wear the second human being nature prepared for Him from "nothing of this earth", but that body was prepared in the womb of a daughter born in Adam, and therefore He is a legal 'heir' of earth, a legal 'seed' of Abraham, and the Legal Kinsman/Redeemer of Adam, as the only "human being kind" brother to Adam, created by the Father as our own Kinsman/Redeemer.

He is the Everlasting Father of this creation as to His human nature which He is ever to wear as our own Head of the New Race, into which He adopts us by giving us His Spirit as the second birth for us.

We will wear our own bodies in the regeneration which will be dissolved and formed anew from the elements but made in His immortal human being image. -If we are born again in His Living Spirit.

His coming as a human being of the second and only Living Son of the Father is the Good News to all in Adam.

Adam was made one spirit [Malachi 2:15] and two persons, male and female [Genesis 5:2] for the purpose of multiplying the godly seed, which means "sons of God", until this kingdom created for Adam and ben -Adam was filled.


The kingdom included the dominion of the heaven of this earth, which is that realm of the spirit which Adam is cut off from as a 'dead' spirit, and in which realm the wicked rulers have dominion until they are removed and destroyed, when the Son of Man/Son of God returns and takes possession of His purchased kingdom.

The redemption is one story, from Genesis to Revelation, and the Redeemer is the Seed of the Woman [Zion above], who was declared in Genesis 15, who was to come, is come, and shall come.

His mission is to unite us with the Father from whom we were separated at the fall, and for the Father's glory to fill the regenerated sons of God and their kingdom which He is to also regenerate, as He is YHWH/Israel, the New Man High King/High Priest for this dominion forever.

And we must be born a second time "in His Spirit" or we will not inherit the kingdom prepared for us from the beginnning, in the New Man; who was to come, is come, and shall come.

The Jews were given this complete redemption story to perform as oracles in the law, feasts, tabernacle, furnishings, priesthood, and service of the temple.

The High Priest donned the 'garments of glory' to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year as "Christ =the Messiah" and to perform a full dress rehearsal of the Day which was made from the beginning for our Ransom.

Jesus Christ's prepared New Man body is the true Mercy Seat of God which was patterned in the Living Oracles, which received the sprinkling of the blood yearly as a pattern of the final performance.

Psalm 118 is about the Day of Atonement when our God was bound to the Altar of sacrifice to be our Gate to the Righteous City, Zion above.

Jesus said we must enter in through the "Strait Gate" referring to His own Mercy Seat body, bound to the cross for us as the Door into the Kingdom of God.

In the Law, The scapegoat was to bear the iniquities of the people away, to the wilderness, on the Day of Atonement, as a pattern for the final act of our Scapegoat.

Jesus became our Scapegoat when all our sins and iniquities were laid on Him by the Father, and He tasted our own death in spirit and became Sin for us and died, taking our sins upon Himself to Sheol, below, where He left them when He rose immortal =perfected, on the third day.

If we don't personally "lay hands on the true Scapegoat", and confess our sins and believe He took them away, then we will not be born again.

If we do not accept water baptism in His name, by His authority, in faith that in Him our old man [which we still wear] died with Him, was buried with Him, and will also rise from the dust of this creation in His Perfected 'immortal' image; then we are not His.

His servants obey Him and His servants are united with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection -by faith, and they follow Him, as Paul the Apostle did, who was adopted into the Beloved Son of God by the Spirit of Adoption, and who was water baptised, and who believed he would be "perfected' in His image in the resurrection.

The Acceptable Year of our LORD is that age of His fulfilling His promise of His "Good Pleasure =His Grace, towards us, for our acceptance by the Father in the Beloved Son.

Israel is His name, Christ is the Living Spirit made flesh, called Israel.

The namesake people received the promise of Adoption by the Final performance in the Appointed Season, as laborers in His vineyard, they were the first called to come in when all things were prepared for the wedding of the Son -Gentiles are being called to His Life, today, to be joined to His living Spirit and made one in His "New Man" kind for the Father's glory to indwell.
.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Let's not forget that this thread is about "The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace", which is the most important thing we should understand in our present Dispensation of Grace.

Don't include me in the "our" of that sentence.

God compelled a guy called Saul to know Him, and made him the Apostle Paul.

So you and him say.
None of the 12 appointed Apostles by Jesus or the replacement Mathias go on record calling Paul an Apostle.

God gave him a different gospel and dispensation from Peter and the eleven, and for that matter, every other dispensation in the Bible.

So you say, Jesus says only those who follow him and His Gospel will be saved.

Peter and the eleven preached the gospel of the circumcision, which was a continuation of Israel’s law.

Peter preached the Gospel that was given to him directly from the rabbi Jesus.
It had nothing to do with whether or not a person has a piece of flesh cut off them on the 8th day of their life. Jesus never spoke of that part of Jewish tradition (within the cannon accounts).
Now the Gospel of Thomas is another story...
53. His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?"

He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect."

Paul was given a dispensation that was the mystery, never revealed before God gave him, the Dispensation of Grace.

So you say, none of the followers of Jesus agreed, that is those who heard him speak.
It is a mystery alright, a mystery how anyone cannot see that what he taught clearly contradicts everything in the OT and the words of Jesus himself.

I will stick with Jesus and what he taught, you would do well to follow, Him that is.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[Lighthouse]

Yes, I can begin it for you from the beginning -
God created the earth for Adam "son of God" to be his dominion. Psalm 115:16
Adam lost the dominion and was no longer 'son of God', in his death of separation from the glory, because of the defilement.

We are all seed of Adam and dead in spirit when we come into our being, and our inheritance 'in Adam' was lost and corrupted, with no one able, in Adam, to ransom it with any acceptable price. Haggai chapter 2

There was no "husband"/servant for earth; which word in Hebrew is 'Isyh', to bring forth deliverance of the kingdom by righteousness, and who could redeem the sons of God back, for the Father's glory to indwell. Isaiah 59 "There was no 'Isyh' to bring forth justice and do the Father's will, so He clothed Himself with the garments of "vengeance =Kinsman/Redeemer, and His created flesh nature is that New Man, and His Spirit is the Everlasting Spirit, called Christ, which clothed Himself with the garment of New Man nature.

So YHWH Himself took upon Himself a created second human being body, to come in flesh of human kind, to be the Deliverer; Judge; Husband; Everlasting Father [as a human being] and the Mighty God of this lost kingdom, to Ransom it back for the Father's glory to fill, and to do the duty of Kinsman to His dead in spirit, [Adam] brother's family.

His name as the New 'Isyh is "Israel"; and He is not of the corrupt dust, but is the Living Spirit from above come to wear the second human being nature prepared for Him from "nothing of this earth", but that body was prepared in the womb of a daughter born in Adam, and therefore He is a legal 'heir' of earth, a legal 'seed' of Abraham, and the Legal Kinsman/Redeemer of Adam, as the only "human being kind" brother to Adam, created by the Father as our own Kinsman/Redeemer.

He is the Everlasting Father of this creation as to His human nature which He is ever to wear as our own Head of the New Race, into which He adopts us by giving us His Spirit as the second birth for us.

We will wear our own bodies in the regeneration which will be dissolved and formed anew from the elements but made in His immortal human being image. -If we are born again in His Living Spirit.

His coming as a human being of the second and only Living Son of the Father is the Good News to all in Adam.

Adam was made one spirit [Malachi 2:15] and two persons, male and female [Genesis 5:2] for the purpose of multiplying the godly seed, which means "sons of God", until this kingdom created for Adam and ben -Adam was filled.


The kingdom included the dominion of the heaven of this earth, which is that realm of the spirit which Adam is cut off from as a 'dead' spirit, and in which realm the wicked rulers have dominion until they are removed and destroyed, when the Son of Man/Son of God returns and takes possession of His purchased kingdom.

The redemption is one story, from Genesis to Revelation, and the Redeemer is the Seed of the Woman [Zion above], who was declared in Genesis 15, who was to come, is come, and shall come.

His mission is to unite us with the Father from whom we were separated at the fall, and for the Father's glory to fill the regenerated sons of God and their kingdom which He is to also regenerate, as He is YHWH/Israel, the New Man High King/High Priest for this dominion forever.

And we must be born a second time "in His Spirit" or we will not inherit the kingdom prepared for us from the beginnning, in the New Man; who was to come, is come, and shall come.

The Jews were given this complete redemption story to perform as oracles in the law, feasts, tabernacle, furnishings, priesthood, and service of the temple.

The High Priest donned the 'garments of glory' to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year as "Christ =the Messiah" and to perform a full dress rehearsal of the Day which was made from the beginning for our Ransom.

Jesus Christ's prepared New Man body is the true Mercy Seat of God which was patterned in the Living Oracles, which received the sprinkling of the blood yearly as a pattern of the final performance.

Psalm 118 is about the Day of Atonement when our God was bound to the Altar of sacrifice to be our Gate to the Righteous City, Zion above.

Jesus said we must enter in through the "Strait Gate" referring to His own Mercy Seat body, bound to the cross for us as the Door into the Kingdom of God.

In the Law, The scapegoat was to bear the iniquities of the people away, to the wilderness, on the Day of Atonement, as a pattern for the final act of our Scapegoat.

Jesus became our Scapegoat when all our sins and iniquities were laid on Him by the Father, and He tasted our own death in spirit and became Sin for us and died, taking our sins upon Himself to Sheol, below, where He left them when He rose immortal =perfected, on the third day.

If we don't personally "lay hands on the true Scapegoat", and confess our sins and believe He took them away, then we will not be born again.

If we do not accept water baptism in His name, by His authority, in faith that in Him our old man [which we still wear] died with Him, was buried with Him, and will also rise from the dust of this creation in His Perfected 'immortal' image; then we are not His.

His servants obey Him and His servants are united with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection -by faith, and they follow Him, as Paul the Apostle did, who was adopted into the Beloved Son of God by the Spirit of Adoption, and who was water baptised, and who believed he would be "perfected' in His image in the resurrection.

The Acceptable Year of our LORD is that age of His fulfilling His promise of His "Good Pleasure =His Grace, towards us, for our acceptance by the Father in the Beloved Son.

Israel is His name, Christ is the Living Spirit made flesh, called Israel.

The namesake people received the promise of Adoption by the Final performance in the Appointed Season, as laborers in His vineyard, they were the first called to come in when all things were prepared for the wedding of the Son -Gentiles are being called to His Life, today, to be joined to His living Spirit and made one in His "New Man" kind for the Father's glory to indwell.
.

How about you try writing a short succint post showing how the fact that Paul's writings are true means that Acts 9 Dispensationalism is untrue. I'm not going to read a long diatribe when I asked you to put it simply.

 

[Wads4]

What is so wonderful being saved in this Dispensation of Grace?

We become a new creation. We receive a new name. We have a new identity in Christ. Our old past is destroyed, and we should forget it. How spectacular, that God did this for us. This is the grace of predestination, which is given to us when we trust Christ as our Savior. Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

When my younger brother was in the army, he was stationed in Japan. Many of the Japanese girls wanted to come to America. But they couldn’t. They were Japanese. My brother met a Japanese girl. He married her. When he came back to the states, she was able to come too. Why? Wasn’t she still Japanese? Yes, but because she was married to an American, she now had a different identity. Now when she applied for entry into America, the U S looked at her husband. The wife was accepted, because she was in her beloved.

How does all this affect us? Because we have trusted Christ as our Savior (I should say, If you have put your trust in Jesus Christ, that He died for you) you are redeemed and accepted, because you are in Him.

But, the predestined inheritance is the security that we have in this dispensation according to Eph 1:11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works the all things (the body of Christ.) according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

We have two inheritances. One is predestined. We can’t lose it. The other is conditional. We can lose it. We already have our inheritance in Christ because God predestined it. But our other inheritance depends on our actions here, according to Col 3:23-25: And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

Again, the guarantee is found only in Paul’s epistles. (According to style, Paul did not write Hebrews.) Eph 1:13,14a “In whom you also, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, 14a who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.” Our response: Eph 1:14b to the praise of His glory.

Safe and secure in Christ,
Bob Hill

Well if you believe all that you will believe anything. I shudder to think of the ease with which the next Hitler or Stalin will twist you round their little fingers with lies and platitudes.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Well if you believe all that you will believe anything. I shudder to think of the ease with which the next Hitler or Stalin will twist you round their little fingers with lies and platitudes.

Sorry, you can't go from thread to thread posting "one-liners" simply trying to stir trouble.

:banned:

 

[Bob Hill]

Paul was very clear about the Dispensation of the Grace of God that was given to him.
Eph 3:1-4 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Paul’s Gospel was different from anything that God had given before. We find in Acts 15 that Paul went up to Jerusalem to tell them about the new gospel that God gave to him according to Gal 1:11-2:10. The Holy Spirit showed the apostles that Paul’s gospel was valid at that council.
Gal 1:11-2:10 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. 20 (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.) 21 Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22 And I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ. 23 But they were hearing only, “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they glorified God in me. Chapter 2 1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6 But from those who seemed to be something - whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man - for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the Gospel of the Uncircumcision had been committed to me, as the Gospel of the Circumcision was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship of the circumcision also worked effectively in me unto the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the Circumcision. 10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do. 11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

This new gospel was for the Gentiles and also Paul’s people, the Jews.

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Thank you Knight!!

Bob

 

[jeremysdemo]

Obviously this is a one way conversation, so I will just stand out of the way and let you and yourself have fun.

[Junior High Schoolish humor deleted by Jefferson]

jerm

 

[lightninboy]

What happens once the dispensation of the grace of God has ended? If we are currently living in a "parenthetical moment in time"...i.e. a time that was not prophesied and is a result of Israel being cut off for a time...what happens next?

More specifically, once the fullness of the gentiles is come and gone (the rapture) what happens? Does the law come into effect again? If so...which parts of the law? Will those remaining be required to circumcise again? Will it be unlawful to eat meat sacrificed to idols? What about the Sabbath?

Just wondering.

Dear chagmaggot,
I would like to learn more about the MAD theory of that myself.
I refer you to post #472 by Lighthouse.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1303052&highlight=proselyte#post1303052

 

[lightninboy]

Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.


Sorry if this ground has been covered (I'm new to this thread). For those who hold anti-MAD positions, I have a question: Was there a time when election was of works in light of the fact that Paul says that it NO LONGER is?

King James:
11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Dear Tico,
I am sure that the word "longer" does not means that salvation was ever by works.
Thank you for your interest in The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace.

 

[lightninboy]

The clear teaching of Jesus, as well as the twelve apostles themselves is that they could lose their salvation as my Scripture references clearly indicate (and yours as well for that matter). Did you just ignore the passages I cited or did you actually expect your personal opinion to trump the Scripture with me?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. Oh good grief! I just realized you've responded with three or four separate posts none of which use the formatting that the site provides specifically for the purposes of creating posts which are both easy to follow and easy to respond too. When you respond to me like a normal person, we can continue. Until then, I'm not interested in your opinions anyway. I repent of having responded too you in the first place.

:wave2:

Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

What passages did you cite that say that the twelve disciple could have lost their salvation? I don't see any in your answer to this question.

This site provides formatting specifically for the purposes of creating posts which are both easy to follow and easy to respond to? Wow! I didn't know that! Where can I get it?

 

[lightninboy]

I didn't interpret them, I simply cited them.

Good bye!

Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

(Matt 10:22; Luke 9:62; Hebrews 3:6; James 5:9-11), whereas today, Christ has already endured for us (Romans 8; Galatians 2:20; 2 Timothy 2:13).

10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

I suggest that these two verses are part of the kingdom gospel message.

3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

A Christian who loses courage and thereby would become faithless becomes useless as an ambassador to Jesus Christ and is useless to himself relative to his future life in heaven. For at the Judgment Seat of Christ he will receive few if any rewards.
As a matter of fact, a Christian can remain in the royal family of God, but lose his inheritance in heaven.

5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

James, at the end of the epistle, speaking of Jesus’ soon return, says “the Judge is standing at the door” (5:9). We know that this judgment will occur after the Lord returns to rapture the Church unto Himself (1 John 2:28). Either it will occur during the Tribulation, or in the few months between it and the start of the Millennium (Dan 12:11-12).
James 5:9 is parallel to Rom 14:10-12. Both Paul and James warn believers not to grumble against one another because the Judgment Seat/Judge is coming soon.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

How about you try writing a short succint post showing how the fact that Paul's writings are true means that Acts 9 Dispensationalism is untrue. I'm not going to read a long diatribe when I asked you to put it simply.

Did I burden you with too many Scriptures which link the True “PLOT” of Scripture together, for you to go research for yourself “to see if these things be so“?

The old man is Adam.
In Adam you are dead.
In Adam you are dying.
In Adam you will die eternally in the second death, the lake of fire.

The New Man is Christ come in human being flesh as “Israel“.
Born again in Christ’s Living Spirit you live.
Born again in Christ’s Spirit you will receive the body of adoption in the regeneration and live as a glorified son of God and share the dominion Adam lost and Israel ransomed back, forever.

Paul of MAD is not the Paul of Scripture -they have no agreement.

 

[lightninboy]

Dear Clete,
Here is some more information about verses like Matt 10:22 and Luke 9:62. If such verses aren’t referring to the gospel of the kingdom, they could be referring to being a disciple of Jesus.

Acts 2 Dispensationalism does believe there is such a thing as the gospel of the kingdom.
.
THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM

A. The Preachers of the Kingdom Gospel

1. John the Baptist (Matthew 3:1-2)
2. Jesus (Matthew 4:17; Luke 4:40-44; 8:1; Romans 15:8)
3. The Twelve (Luke 9:1-2)
4. The Seventy (Luke 10:1, 9)

B. The Nature of the Kingdom

1. God’s will accomplished on earth as in heaven (Matthew 6:9-13)
2. An earthly rule of Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:20-23; Luke 21:27-32)
3. The apostles exalted to thrones (Matthew 19:27-28; Luke 22:28-30)
4. The unfaithful Jews excluded from the kingdom (Matthew 8:10-12; Luke 13:28-29)

C. The Message of the Kingdom

1. To Israel only (Matthew 10:5-8; 15:24; Romans 15:8)
2. That the kingdom is at hand (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 10:7)
3. The baptism of repentance (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:4; Acts 2:38; 13:23-25; 19:4-5)
a. Preceded by repentance (Matthew 3:7-11)
b. Accompanied by confession (Matthew 3:6; Mark 1:5)
c. Followed by remission (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3)
d. Leading to faith in Christ (Matthew 3:11; Acts 19:3-5)
e. Changed when God turned to the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48; Acts 16:30-33)



THE COST OF DISCIPLESHIP

The proponents of Lordship Salvation have naturally taken interest in costly discipleship as a solution to the growing number of people who profess to be Christians but who do not live up to their profession.

J. I. Packer, James Montgomery Boice, Walter J. Chantry, John F. MacArthur, Jr., Harry L. Poe, Kenneth L. Gentry, John R. W. Stott

The Conditions of Discipleship

Matthew 16:24-27//Mark 8:34-38//Luke 9:23-26

"Deny himself"
"Take up his cross."
"Follow Me."
"Loses his life."
"Whoever is not ashamed of Me."
Hate Your Family (Matt 10:37//Luke 14:26)
Forsake All (Luke 14:33)
Abide in His Word (John 8:30-31)

There Is a Difference Between Discipleship and Salvation

 

[Bob Hill]

Some who respond on this site don’t seem to know that the term Dispensation of Grace is something God gave to the Apostle Paul, along with this Dispensation that we are in, that was not revealed until God gave it to Paul.

What is a dispensation? The Greek word for dispensation, oikonomia, is defined in two ways.

The first definition emphasizes the plan of management: “The management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of other’s property.

The second emphasizes the position entrusted to the administrator: “The office of a manager or overseer, stewardship.” We refer to the term of office of an American president as an administration.

We could refer to it as a dispensation.

Here is another way to understand the word. Suppose you inherited an estate and hired an overseer, oikonomos, to manage it. You gave him a written document of instructions, this would be the dispensation. He would then be given the authority to spend your money to carry out your directions.

Although a dispensation is not a period of time, we can see that the directions in the dispensation are carried out over a period of time.

If you wanted to, you could replace the old administrator with a new one. You could also change the rules of the dispensation a little, keeping most of the rules from the last dispensation. The employees the prior administrator had hired could adapt to the minor changes easily. But if you hired an administrator and gave him instructions which totally conflicted with the previous dispensation, there would be confusion and probably strong resistance from the employees. That’s what happened in God’s dispensational program after the last change. God set aside His nation, Israel, and started a new dispensation with the Apostle Paul.

That’s what God’s Word shows us.

In Christ,
Bob Hill