jeremysdemo
New member
lightninboy said:
Neither.
Jesus is the Truth, and the Life, and The Way for those who think it is something else.
keep shinin'
jerm
The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace
- Thread starter Bob Hill
- Start date
Neither.
Jesus is the Truth, and the Life, and The Way for those who think it is something else.
keep shinin'
jerm
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
The Acts 9 & 13 positions are almost identical.
I held to an Acts 13 position back in the 1950’s, but when my pastor came home from a pastor’s conference one time, he asked me what I thought about the body starting in Acts 9. Hmmmmm.
I thought about the incident in Acts 10, when those Gentiles were saved before Peter had a chance to tell them to repent and be baptized, and I saw no reason for it not to start with Paul’s conversion.
Since then, I have a few more reasons why I believe it started in Acts 9.
Paul called Jesus Christ a circumcision minister in Rom 15:8, “Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers.”
Because Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision, water baptism was part of His program for salvation according to John 3:5, “Jesus answered, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”.
Also, it says in Mk 16:15,16: “And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.’”
From Christ’s earthly ministry, we see that endurance was expected in the believers if they were to receive salvation. This requirement was in line with the other conditional aspects of the circumcision covenant.
John 15:1-8 is the best example: “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.”
When He said, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch”, He was speaking to the Apostles. Judas had left in John 13:30. Did He really mean that an apostle could be lost? Yes, they had to abide in Christ in order to be saved. Otherwise, verse 6 again, “they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.”
Not only did they have to remain in Christ, they also had to forgive men in order to be saved according to Mat 6:14,15: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” We will see these conditional principles repeatedly as we continue to look at God’s program with the circumcision church of the dispensations just prior to ours under the circumcision covenant.
The gift of tongues given on the day of Pentecost was a sign to Israel that the kingdom was very near. When Peter offered the kingdom and many responded to his message and believed, Peter commanded that they be baptized for the remission of sins.
Water baptism continued as a requirement for salvation after Pentecost because God continued to offer Israel the kingdom in Acts 3:19-26: “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.” 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, “And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.” If they had repented, God would have sent Christ back, according to Acts 3:20.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
I held to an Acts 13 position back in the 1950’s, but when my pastor came home from a pastor’s conference one time, he asked me what I thought about the body starting in Acts 9. Hmmmmm.
I thought about the incident in Acts 10, when those Gentiles were saved before Peter had a chance to tell them to repent and be baptized, and I saw no reason for it not to start with Paul’s conversion.
Since then, I have a few more reasons why I believe it started in Acts 9.
Paul called Jesus Christ a circumcision minister in Rom 15:8, “Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers.”
Because Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision, water baptism was part of His program for salvation according to John 3:5, “Jesus answered, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”.
Also, it says in Mk 16:15,16: “And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.’”
From Christ’s earthly ministry, we see that endurance was expected in the believers if they were to receive salvation. This requirement was in line with the other conditional aspects of the circumcision covenant.
John 15:1-8 is the best example: “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.”
When He said, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch”, He was speaking to the Apostles. Judas had left in John 13:30. Did He really mean that an apostle could be lost? Yes, they had to abide in Christ in order to be saved. Otherwise, verse 6 again, “they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.”
Not only did they have to remain in Christ, they also had to forgive men in order to be saved according to Mat 6:14,15: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” We will see these conditional principles repeatedly as we continue to look at God’s program with the circumcision church of the dispensations just prior to ours under the circumcision covenant.
The gift of tongues given on the day of Pentecost was a sign to Israel that the kingdom was very near. When Peter offered the kingdom and many responded to his message and believed, Peter commanded that they be baptized for the remission of sins.
Water baptism continued as a requirement for salvation after Pentecost because God continued to offer Israel the kingdom in Acts 3:19-26: “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.” 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, “And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.” If they had repented, God would have sent Christ back, according to Acts 3:20.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
What came next?
After Christ’s Ascension and the outpouring of the Spirit in Acts 2, God still demanded water baptism for the remission of sins according to Acts 2:38: “Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’”.
Much later, when Paul was seized in the temple by the Jewish mob and taken into custody by the Roman commander, he was allowed to speak to the violent mob on the way into the barracks.
He used the opportunity to recount his conversion. He spoke of “a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there.” He related how Ananias had told him about his apostolic commission from God.
What method of salvation did Ananias present to Paul? Ananias commanded in Acts 22:16: “Now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord”. Ananias told Paul the only message that he knew, the message of Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38, the circumcision gospel with its condition of baptism.
I want to highlight one of the most important facts of all. Water baptism would be imposed on Israel until the time of reformation (Heb 9:10-13) when Christ would establish the kingdom for Israel.
Therefore, from the beginning of John’s ministry, through the time of Christ’s death and Ascension, to the time that Israel was temporarily set aside in Acts 7, we find that water baptism was essential for salvation.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
After Christ’s Ascension and the outpouring of the Spirit in Acts 2, God still demanded water baptism for the remission of sins according to Acts 2:38: “Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’”.
Much later, when Paul was seized in the temple by the Jewish mob and taken into custody by the Roman commander, he was allowed to speak to the violent mob on the way into the barracks.
He used the opportunity to recount his conversion. He spoke of “a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there.” He related how Ananias had told him about his apostolic commission from God.
What method of salvation did Ananias present to Paul? Ananias commanded in Acts 22:16: “Now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord”. Ananias told Paul the only message that he knew, the message of Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38, the circumcision gospel with its condition of baptism.
I want to highlight one of the most important facts of all. Water baptism would be imposed on Israel until the time of reformation (Heb 9:10-13) when Christ would establish the kingdom for Israel.
Therefore, from the beginning of John’s ministry, through the time of Christ’s death and Ascension, to the time that Israel was temporarily set aside in Acts 7, we find that water baptism was essential for salvation.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
jeremysdemo
New member
Bob Hill said:
And so it is today, that is for anyone who is a disciple of Jesus.
For those who are not there are various other things they can follow and do, but none of them are from God via his prophet Yeshua.
“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch”, He was speaking to the Apostles.
Actually he was speaking to anyone, he would have said any one of you of he was speaking to just them.
His words are prophetic and are not limited, and are even speaking over you Bob.
keep shinin'
jerm
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Now, here is the part that shows the body of Christ started in Acts 9.
After Israel was judged by God and set aside for unbelief when Stephen was murdered by the Jewish mob, the church, the Body of Christ, started with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9.
A comparison of Acts 22:13 and 26:18 indicates that Paul was saved when he received his sight, just as the Gentiles to whom he was sent would be saved upon receiving spiritual sight.
Paul received his sight before he was baptized at Ananias’ statement and command.
Things really started changing after Paul got saved.
In the Old Testament, when God had separated Israel from the nations as His chosen people, in Lev 20:23-26, He imposed upon them a designation between clean and unclean animals.
Now, after God started the Body of Christ Church by saving Paul, in a vision to Peter, God made the first dramatic change.
God abolished the distinction between clean and unclean animals in order to show that He had demoted Israel from their chosen people status.
Acts 10:9-16 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
However, God did not reveal to Peter the unity and equality of Jew and Gentile in the new man, the new church, The Body of Christ.
In fact, God didn’t show Peter any of the aspects of the great secret He would reveal to Paul, only. He also did not show Peter the new method of salvation by faith alone apart from works.
Peter, when he went to Cornelius’ house as God had commanded him, had simply preached the gospel of the circumcision to his Gentile audience and preached that works were necessary for salvation as well as faith.
He told these Gentiles in Acts 10:35: “But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”.
He was preaching the same gospel of faith plus works and endurance for salvation which Christ taught (Acts 10:34-42; John 15:1-8). It conformed to the circumcision covenant gospel.
Then something even more startling happened. The Holy Spirit showed that water baptism was no longer necessary for salvation after the body of Christ started with Paul’s conversion in Acts 9.
This was done dramatically, before Peter could command them to be water baptized.
In Acts 10:44,45, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word while Peter was still preaching. The Holy Spirit’s gift, here, became the sign that would convince the circumcision believers that God had opened the door of salvation to the Gentiles.
The ending of the kingdom church dispensation and beginning of the new church, the body of Christ, took place at Paul’s conversion in Acts 9. There, we see that Paul was sent to the Gentiles, kings and Israel.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
After Israel was judged by God and set aside for unbelief when Stephen was murdered by the Jewish mob, the church, the Body of Christ, started with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9.
A comparison of Acts 22:13 and 26:18 indicates that Paul was saved when he received his sight, just as the Gentiles to whom he was sent would be saved upon receiving spiritual sight.
Paul received his sight before he was baptized at Ananias’ statement and command.
Things really started changing after Paul got saved.
In the Old Testament, when God had separated Israel from the nations as His chosen people, in Lev 20:23-26, He imposed upon them a designation between clean and unclean animals.
Now, after God started the Body of Christ Church by saving Paul, in a vision to Peter, God made the first dramatic change.
God abolished the distinction between clean and unclean animals in order to show that He had demoted Israel from their chosen people status.
Acts 10:9-16 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
However, God did not reveal to Peter the unity and equality of Jew and Gentile in the new man, the new church, The Body of Christ.
In fact, God didn’t show Peter any of the aspects of the great secret He would reveal to Paul, only. He also did not show Peter the new method of salvation by faith alone apart from works.
Peter, when he went to Cornelius’ house as God had commanded him, had simply preached the gospel of the circumcision to his Gentile audience and preached that works were necessary for salvation as well as faith.
He told these Gentiles in Acts 10:35: “But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”.
He was preaching the same gospel of faith plus works and endurance for salvation which Christ taught (Acts 10:34-42; John 15:1-8). It conformed to the circumcision covenant gospel.
Then something even more startling happened. The Holy Spirit showed that water baptism was no longer necessary for salvation after the body of Christ started with Paul’s conversion in Acts 9.
This was done dramatically, before Peter could command them to be water baptized.
In Acts 10:44,45, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word while Peter was still preaching. The Holy Spirit’s gift, here, became the sign that would convince the circumcision believers that God had opened the door of salvation to the Gentiles.
The ending of the kingdom church dispensation and beginning of the new church, the body of Christ, took place at Paul’s conversion in Acts 9. There, we see that Paul was sent to the Gentiles, kings and Israel.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Pastor Hill, in the following verse isn't the Greek word for "chief" actually mean "first"?
1Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
And if so, doesn't this really seal your point?
protos; contr. superl. of 4253; first, chief: —before(3), best(1), first(127), first importance(1), first man(1), first of all(2), first one(1), first things (1), first time(1), foremost(5), leading(2), leading man(1), leading men(5), outer(m)(2), outer one(m)(1), previous(1).
1Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
And if so, doesn't this really seal your point?
protos; contr. superl. of 4253; first, chief: —before(3), best(1), first(127), first importance(1), first man(1), first of all(2), first one(1), first things (1), first time(1), foremost(5), leading(2), leading man(1), leading men(5), outer(m)(2), outer one(m)(1), previous(1).
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Christ was not sent to the Gentiles when He came down as a man. When He spoke to His disciples He said in John 15:1-8 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
When a gentile woman came to Him, He said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Mat 15:22-28 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.” 23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” 27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
We must rightly divide God’s Word and realize that the message in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John and the other Circumcision Epistles, is not written to the Body of Christ, even though it is important for us to know all of God’s Word.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
When a gentile woman came to Him, He said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Mat 15:22-28 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.” 23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” 27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
We must rightly divide God’s Word and realize that the message in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John and the other Circumcision Epistles, is not written to the Body of Christ, even though it is important for us to know all of God’s Word.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Fascinating things were happening. The next thing was, the order of the baptisms was reversed. Now, Peter was perplexed :sigh: because water baptism had preceded the baptism of the Holy Spirit up to this time.
The Holy Spirit baptized these Gentiles :rain: before Peter could tell them to be baptized.
Now, after they were obviously saved, he commanded them to be water baptized.
So, now we see a believer’s Holy Spirit baptism was the thing necessary for salvation. Water baptism became secondary for the first time. We’re not even sure that God wanted these new Christians baptized. Peter did a number of things here only because the Lord had previously commanded him to do them.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
The Holy Spirit baptized these Gentiles :rain: before Peter could tell them to be baptized.
Now, after they were obviously saved, he commanded them to be water baptized.
So, now we see a believer’s Holy Spirit baptism was the thing necessary for salvation. Water baptism became secondary for the first time. We’re not even sure that God wanted these new Christians baptized. Peter did a number of things here only because the Lord had previously commanded him to do them.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
When Paul was converted, God committed to him a new stewardship, “The Dispensation of the Mystery”, and a new gospel, the Uncircumcision Gospel.
In contrast to the Circumcision Gospel, that Peter and the other circumcision apostles preached, what did they now have to do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 tells us: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. That has not changed. :bannana:
In Christ,
Bob Hill
In contrast to the Circumcision Gospel, that Peter and the other circumcision apostles preached, what did they now have to do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 tells us: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. That has not changed. :bannana:
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Soon, Paul learned that water baptism was not part of his commission, and he no longer baptized.
That’s why he wrote in 1 Co 1:17, “I was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.”
In contrast, we must remember that baptism was an integral part of the circumcision apostles’ commission.
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Mk 16:15-18 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
In Christ,
Bob Hill
That’s why he wrote in 1 Co 1:17, “I was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.”
In contrast, we must remember that baptism was an integral part of the circumcision apostles’ commission.
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Mk 16:15-18 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Knight said:
Context determines usage. The word is used in a variety of ways in a variety of contexts. Adam was the first sinner, not Paul. David was surely a sinner before Paul.
It can mean first in chronology or priority of importance (seek first the kingdom of God). It can also itemize a list without priority or importance issues.
First in sequence OR prominence are equally valid, with the latter fitting the context of Paul's expression. It can signify degree (in the first place, above all, especially).
If you are proof texting this as support for Mid-Acts and Paul being the first saved person in the age of grace....no way, jose. Paul was simply using a hyperbole that recognized his own personal sinfulness and need of his great Savior. In other places, he also boasted about his pre-conversion 'credentials' without meaning he was the first or greatest in these things. The NIV captures the sense that Paul felt he was the worst of sinners (not absolutely true...nor was he the chronologically first sinner in the NT) in need of the great grace of God. This does not negate the grace of God at Pentecost as thousands were converted based on the same person and work of Christ.
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Soon, Paul learned that water baptism was not part of his commission, and he no longer baptized.
That’s why he wrote in 1 Co 1:17, “I was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.”
In contrast, we must remember that baptism was an integral part of the circumcision apostles’ commission.
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Mk 16:15-18 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
In Christ,
Bob Hill
That’s why he wrote in 1 Co 1:17, “I was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.”
In contrast, we must remember that baptism was an integral part of the circumcision apostles’ commission.
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Mk 16:15-18 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill said:
That is the essence of Jesus' gospel in Jn. 1:12, 3:16, 36.
Repentant faith was also a Petrine and Johannine message. Water baptism was an outward evidence of inward faith, a normative act of discipleship in the early church. Like circumcision, the ritual is powerless to add anything to God's grace appropriated through faith in all dispensations.
Just because Hebrews is written in a context of Jewish Christians and other books (Corinthians) is written in a context of Gentile Christians, does not mean there are two NT gospels. The one gospel is simply explained in terms of reference to different recipients of the same gospel of the risen Lord that was implemented when 'it was finished' (no dividing wall between God and man; Jew and Gentile; male and female; etc.). The death and resurrection of Christ and the giving of the Spirit at Pentecost are more pivotal than Paul's conversion.
Like Luther with his convictions about the Word, I must stand against Mid-Acts in order to be faithful to the Word of God.
Bob Hill said:
You know Greek well enough to know any language tool would support more than one meaning for the word. The context does not make sense to say that Paul was the first sinner in the age of grace. This is sheer eisegesis based on Mid-Acts glasses. This is why most translators and commentators translate contrary to your assumptions.
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
At the end of the book of Acts, Israel was shown for the final time that they had been set aside. This happened when Paul spoke in judgment quoting Isa 6:9,10. After this judgment was pronounced, Paul was inspired to write that ultimate church epistle, Ephesians.
In it he wrote, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4:4,5).
If there is only one baptism, which one is it? It is Holy Spirit! Why? Because God has suspended the use of water baptism.
It has been done away with because God is through with Israel for the time being.
Now there is only one program. It has to do with spiritual things, not carnal.
So, for the Dispensation of Grace, there is one baptism.
We, who have trusted in Christ, the Holy Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ, the church.
That baptism identifies us with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Rom 6:3-8). This identification justifies and frees us from all sin (Rom 6:7,18).
Water baptism has been set aside because God has set aside Israel and started the body of Christ.
Under the church dispensation, The Dispensation of Grace, there are many new things.
There are no law-works necessary for salvation according to Tit 3:5,6: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”
Also, we the Body of Christ, are the only ones who have eternal security. This is emphasized by Eph 1:4-14. We live the Christian life by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. These are wonderful, awesome blessings. I revel in them.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
In it he wrote, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4:4,5).
If there is only one baptism, which one is it? It is Holy Spirit! Why? Because God has suspended the use of water baptism.
It has been done away with because God is through with Israel for the time being.
Now there is only one program. It has to do with spiritual things, not carnal.
So, for the Dispensation of Grace, there is one baptism.
We, who have trusted in Christ, the Holy Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ, the church.
That baptism identifies us with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Rom 6:3-8). This identification justifies and frees us from all sin (Rom 6:7,18).
Water baptism has been set aside because God has set aside Israel and started the body of Christ.
Under the church dispensation, The Dispensation of Grace, there are many new things.
There are no law-works necessary for salvation according to Tit 3:5,6: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”
Also, we the Body of Christ, are the only ones who have eternal security. This is emphasized by Eph 1:4-14. We live the Christian life by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. These are wonderful, awesome blessings. I revel in them.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill said:
Recheck your language tools. You know more Greek than I do, so I think you will come to the right conclusion if you revisit this.
Otherwise, we agree to disagree, in love and respect (I think you would be hard pressed to find a credible language scholar to agree with you...do I understand correctly that you are saying Paul was the first sinner in a new dispensation as opposed to a humble recognition of his extreme sinfulness in light of God's grace?).
Acts 2:38 is the most glaringly obvious verse that shows that the current church [the Body of Christ] did not start in Acts 2.