The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

godrulz

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Lighthouse said:
Acts 2:38 is the most glaringly obvious verse that shows that the current church [the Body of Christ] did not start in Acts 2.

Acts 2:38, properly exegeted, is fully consistent with the teachings of Jesus and Paul. A basic understanding of the Greek grammar links repentant faith with regeneration, not baptism. This is consistent with Jn. 3:16 and Rom. 1:16.

Mid-Acts is heretical and negates much of the NT for the Church Age :shocked:
 

thelaqachisnext

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godrulz said:
Acts 2:38, properly exegeted, is fully consistent with the teachings of Jesus and Paul. A basic understanding of the Greek grammar links repentant faith with regeneration, not baptism. This is consistent with Jn. 3:16 and Rom. 1:16.

Mid-Acts is heretical and negates much of the NT for the Church Age :shocked:
MAD doctrine is hear -say which will not hold up in a court of law.

One does not know God by hear-say, but by personal "revelation" in the New Birth, which is a true adoption into the One Spirit of the Second Creation human being, whose name we call Jesus [Salvation], but whom the Father calls "Israel".
Isaiah 49; His "One New Man" name is Israel.
The old man name is Adam; Genesis 5:2

Genesis 32. He gave the adoption name to Jacob, as surname.
Hosea 12:3-5; YHWH of hosts gave Jacob that name "Prince With God", as His own New Man of earth, the second and only living human being for earth; "husband" -'Isyh [H-m-m, the root of Israel! YHWH come in flesh is in the name of the "husband for earth'!

Adam was made "Isyh", when the 'Ishyah was made from His one spirit, but he died as son of God and did not bring forth the multiplied seed from his death as "sons of God; and Malachi 2:15 says Adam was made [male and female Genesis 5:2] "one spirit", to fill the earth with the sons of God -for the Father's house of His glory.

The New Man is the New House, the latter temple Haggai chapter 2 teaches about; and the New Man human being body prepared as kinsman to Adam to be Kinsman/Redeemer to Adam, and redeemer of the kingdom lost, is One Spirit to which all who are born again are joined to, which is called the second birth and the regeneration of Spirit.

You will not be regenerated in body if you are not regenerated in His Spirit -and the Spirit is Christ; the Anointed One, the Messiah. But the Body is "Israel"; and if you do not know Him as your own 'Isyh" of the New Creation by being born of His Spirit, then you will never know the Father and you will never inherit the kingdom of God in Christ -and you will be a cast away, raised in Adam, only.

MAD doctrine is not of God, is not in the Scriptures, and is not just hear-say doctrine, but denies the name of the Son of Man/Son of God as the New Man, "Israel".

He is the Foundation Stone of the New House for the Father's glory to indwell.
Pure and simple, and the House for His glory is patterned in the temple which the Jews were given as a pattern of the heavenly temple, to teach, by the Living Oracles about the Person and work of the New Man.

The body of the New Man is the Mercy Seat itself, which Moses copied as a pattern of the heavenly Mercy Seat which He saw.

His body is the New Man "Foundation Stone", and if you are not joined to Him, and by that joining made a living stone in His New Man, then you will be a cast away.

Paul the born again Jew, understood this; but paul, the hear-say 'shades' of MAD doctrine never met the Paul of Scripture.
 

Lighthouse

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thelaqachisnext said:
MAD doctrine is not of God, is not in the Scriptures, and is not just hear-say doctrine, but denies the name of the Son of Man/Son of God as the New Man, "Israel".
:confused:

How so?
 

godrulz

Well-known member
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thelaq...as a side note, out of curiosity...

what is your view on Gen. 6:1-4? Who are these guys (Nephilim)? I do not think they are demons breeding with men. Based on the chapters before, I think it is about ungodly intermarriage between the godly Sethites and the ungodly Cainites.

http://www.equip.org/free/DG064.htm

(I still find some of your ideas unique and hard to understand).
 

thelaqachisnext

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godrulz said:
thelaq...as a side note, out of curiosity...

what is your view on Gen. 6:1-4? Who are these guys (Nephilim)? I do not think they are demons breeding with men. Based on the chapters before, I think it is about ungodly intermarriage between the godly Sethites and the ungodly Cainites.

http://www.equip.org/free/DG064.htm

(I still find some of your ideas unique and hard to understand).
I don't have to have an "opinion" just an agreement with what is written -sons of God laqach daughters [born of] Adam.

Adam is wrongly translated "men". 'Man' has many original words in the Hebrew Scriptures which are all just generically translated "man/men/ -and wrongly so, which causes confusion.
, and our kind is "Adam", and in each of us all the fulness of the Adam-head dwells "bodily".
-And Seth's descendents were just as dead in spirit as their father Adam, since the fall, and all descended to Sheol below to wait for the Day of Atonement [but in comfort if they died in faith, waiting for the promised Redeemer whose Day AbraHAm saw] and in need of the second birth to be sons of God again -which the New Man is come in flesh to be our Atonement so that we can be born of His New Man Spirit and be sons of God by adoption out of Adam and into the Israel.
.

The demons are the 'shades' who are the disembodied nephillim. They aren't demons until disembodied, and they cannot 'come' into heaven, because they are the foul spirits whose names were never written in the book of life from the beginning, whose spirits are from the Watchers -reported in Enoch- and because their flesh bodies that they were born in were taken from Adam, through "root cuttings" [gene splicing] they were doomed to be earth bound to torment Adamkind until the Appointed Day of their judgment and torment, when they are gathered from earth and cast into the lake of fire at the return of Messiah to reign.

Enoch reports God saying they were doomed to roam earth, when disembodied, until the Messiah comes to reign, and were to torment Adamkind until then.

The Anakim of Canaan were of the Nephillim -the sons of the Watchers of the "also after that", of Genesis 6.
And since none of Cain's descendents survived the flood, and they also took wives of daughters born in Adam after the flood, and bore giants again, then there is no way to make Adam =Cain, after the flood, as all were descended from Seth after the flood who were born 'in Adam'.
 

thelaqachisnext

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Lighthouse said:
The New Man for earth is promised from the beginning and patterned in the heavenly temple which Moses copied.
The New Man is the second human being created, opposed to the old man, the first creation human being; and is the Only Begotten of the Father -as the first, firstborn of earth is dead to the Father and the Father's glory has not dwelt in Adam since the fall -and will never dwell in Adam, the defiled 'clay vessel' [as pr the law]; and Adam is to be cut off [circumcision signed that, performed on the new born male born of AbraHAm on the 8th day] and the Kinsman/Redeemer adopts all in Adam [whosoever will] as His own seed, as sons of God by that adoption.

The New Man is the "Everlasting Father", the "Mighty God", of this earth "as to His human position of Firstborn of the Father", the chosen "Root", which the Father planted [made the New Man body in the womb of the virgin, as a human being for earth; our very own everliving 'Isyh -Isaiah 59], for His glory to indwell.

If you are not graft into the Root, which is the New Man, by the adoption into His New Man Living Spriit [the new or second birth of Spirit] then you are not going to inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven/the Son/Christ -all one and the same kingdom.
 

chatmaggot

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What happens once the dispensation of the grace of God has ended? If we are currently living in a "parenthetical moment in time"...i.e. a time that was not prophesied and is a result of Israel being cut off for a time...what happens next?

More specifically, once the fullness of the gentiles is come and gone (the rapture) what happens? Does the law come into effect again? If so...which parts of the law? Will those remaining be required to circumcise again? Will it be unlawful to eat meat sacrificed to idols? What about the Sabbath?

Just wondering.
 

thelaqachisnext

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chatmaggot said:
What happens once the dispensation of the grace of God has ended? If we are currently living in a "parenthetical moment in time"...i.e. a time that was not prophesied and is a result of Israel being cut off for a time...what happens next?

More specifically, once the fullness of the gentiles is come and gone (the rapture) what happens? Does the law come into effect again? If so...which parts of the law? Will those remaining be required to circumcise again? Will it be unlawful to eat meat sacrificed to idols? What about the Sabbath?

Just wondering.
There is no such biblical doctrine called the wonderful dispensation of grace.
This is the "dispensation of the fulness of times" which is very same in meaning as "the Acceptable Year of the LORD" which acceptable "Well Pleasing" Sacrifice at the Appointed Season was taught in the Living Oracles, and the Acceptance ended the Day of Atonement for the "sin" sacrifice, forever and forever for all born in Adam -whosoever will.

This is "the Day of Salvation" and this day ends for those who reject His Love, and all in Adam will be cut off in the regeneration, which is called the New Beginning; and all in Adam will be cast aways; but those who accept the LORD and come under the Covenant in His blood will forever be in His Sabbath Rest planned from the foundation of the world.

After the first harvest is come in as the perfected =made whole in body, Spirit and soul- sons of God, then God grows His second harvest of sons of God off earth; to harvest after the thousand years, through those born again in Spirit -but not in body yet- "Blessed of the LORD" -of both Jews and Gentiles who are left to populate the earth, and who enter into the millennial reign of His Peace in their Adamic bodies but regenerated in Spirit by the adoption.

They will be Believers just like Paul and Cornelius; Jews and Gentiles, one who never forsakes the law until all is fulfilled but who is in Christ by the New Birth; and one who comes into the New Birth as Gentiles and remain Gentiles until the regeneration of the body for all.
The law has much to be fulfilled, all the fall feasts but the Day of Atonement and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth and the cutting off of all seed of Adam from earth.

The Temple will not have a Mercy Seat nor Day of Atonement, for that is ended forever, and no one will be required to become a Jew, but all Gentiles will be required to send the males of their families to Jerusalem for Tabernacles, which is the Feast of YHWH which pertains to the Nations left on earth after the final consumation of sin.

Luk 4:16 ¶ And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19 To preach 2784 the acceptable 1184 year 1763 of the Lord 2962.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Act 10:35 But 235 in 1722 every 3956 nation 1484 he that feareth 5399 him 846, and 2532 worketh 2038 righteousness 1343, is 2076 accepted 1184 with him 846.


2Cr 6:2 (For 1063 he saith 3004 , I have heard 1873 thee 4675 in a time 2540 accepted 1184, and 2532 in 1722 the day 2250 of salvation 4991 have I succoured 997 thee 4671: behold 2400 , now 3568 [is] the accepted 2144 time 2540; behold 2400 , now 3568 [is] the day 2250 of salvation 4991.)

The Good Pleasure of His will is the Acceptable Sacrifice, and in the Hebrew the "Acceptable" year of the LORD is "Good Pleasure" Season, or Times, of the LORD.
The Son said "Lo, it is written in the volume of the Book, I come to do Thy Will";
He came to be the "Acceptable Sacrifice" for the Father's "Good Pleasure" towards you and me.

Hbr 10:5 ¶ Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Hbr 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
Hbr 10:11 ¶ And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
.
 
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lightninboy

Member
To Knight or anybody else MAD who shows up:

Here are some questions for you.

The law did not provide eternal salvation at all but rather offered temporal purification for the Jews (Hebrews 9:13-14)
True or false?

The utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23, 10-18; Psalm 14:1-3; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Isaiah 64:6)
True or false?

If merit allows a man to glory in earning his salvation and this kind of glorying is wrong, then why is it wrong for us but all right for those in other dispensations?

If merit was wrong for Abraham (Romans 4:2), the great Old Testament saint who was called the friend of God (James 2:23), then why is it all right for other Old Testament saints?

Works-salvation makes God a debtor to man, something He can never be. (Romans 4:3-5; 11:35)
True or false?

Even under the law, men came to God ultimately by faith. Even though their faith might be expressed in works (as ours should be), it was still faith that got God's attention.
True or false?

With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ.
True or false?

What was Jesus talking about in John 3 if not that Old Testament people had to have everlasting life the same way we do?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
lightninboy said:
To Knight or anybody else MAD who shows up:
MAD? :confused:

Here are some questions for you.

The law did not provide eternal salvation at all but rather offered temporal purification for the Jews (Hebrews 9:13-14)
True or false?
As stated: False

The utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23, 10-18; Psalm 14:1-3; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Isaiah 64:6)
True or false?
As stated: True. One cannot earn mercy under any circumstance (i.e. "utterly sinful" or otherwise).

If merit allows a man to glory in earning his salvation and this kind of glorying is wrong, then why is it wrong for us but all right for those in other dispensations?
Huh? :confused:

If merit was wrong for Abraham (Romans 4:2), the great Old Testament saint who was called the friend of God (James 2:23), then why is it all right for other Old Testament saints?
Huh? :confused:

Works-salvation makes God a debtor to man, something He can never be. (Romans 4:3-5; 11:35)
True or false?
Non sequitur. "Works-Salvation" is an oxymoron.
However, God can and has made agreements (the Biblical term is "covenants") with men, which He is bound by His own word (and blood) to keep. And so your assertion that God "can never be" a debtor to man is overstated (depending on what you mean by "debtor" that is). More accurately God cannot be an unwilling or involuntary debtor to man.

Even under the law, men came to God ultimately by faith. Even though their faith might be expressed in works (as ours should be), it was still faith that got God's attention.
True or false?
Again, AS STATED: True. However, being subject to the law was not optional prior to the Dispensation of the Grace of God. Prior to Paul the law was mandatory, after Paul it was (is) forbidden.

With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ.
True or false?
It depends on what you mean by "certainly saved". If you mean "certainly saved" in the sense that we are "certainly saved" by having been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, then the answer is false. Any one of the Apostles could have turned from God at any time and had they died in such a condition they would not have been saved.

What was Jesus talking about in John 3 if not that Old Testament people had to have everlasting life the same way we do?
This question makes no sense.
Old Testament believers did have everlasting life, just as we do! The difference being that for them it was if they persevered to the end. (Matt 10:22; Luke 9:62; Hebrews 3:6; James 5:9-11), whereas today, Christ has already endured for us (Romans 8; Galatians 2:20; 2 Timothy 2:13).

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

You got the first question wrong.
Here is why:

Purposes of the Law

1. To define God’s standard of righteousness (Deuteronomy 4:8; 6:24-25; Psalm 19:7; Romans 7:12, 14)

2. To offer temporal purification for the Jews (Hebrews 9:13-14)

a. Israel, as a nation, had a special relationship with God (Deuteronomy 4:7; 5:26; Psalm 147:19-20)

b. God would meet with Israel and their priests in a special way (Exodus 25:21-22; 29:42-44; 30:6, 36; Numbers 17:4 [thou (singular)…you (plural)]; cp. Exodus 20:18-21; 33:7)

c. God was to dwell among them (Exodus 25:8; 29:45-46; Leviticus 26:11-12)

d. As such, there was a great danger of defiling God’s tabernacle among them (Leviticus 15:31; Numbers 19:11-13, 20)

e. This explains the special significance of the commands for Israel to be holy (Leviticus 11:44-45; 19:1-2)

f. The sacrificial system allowed them to cleanse themselves from their filthiness so that God could continue to dwell among them (Leviticus 1:1-4; 4:35; 16:30; Hebrews 9:13-14)

g. They needed the sacrifices so that God would “accept” them (Ezekiel 20:40-41; 43:27)

3. To provide a source of earthly blessing

a. The blessing (Leviticus 26:3-13; Deuteronomy 28:1-14)

b. The blessing required potential cursing as its opposite

4. To typify the elements of salvation (like the sacrificial death of Christ)

a. The typical elements (Colossians 2:16-17; Hebrews 8:4-5; 9:6-10; 10:1)

b. The blindness of Israel (2Corinthians 3:6-16)

5. To reveal sin in its total sinfulness (Romans 3:20; 5:12-14; 7:7, 12)
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

You got the second question right.

The utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23, 10-18; Psalm 14:1-3; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Isaiah 64:6)
True or false?
As stated: True. One cannot earn mercy under any circumstance (i.e. "utterly sinful" or otherwise).

However, MAD claims that Old Testament man could have had and must have had a part in earning his own salvation.


3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

If merit allows a man to glory in earning his salvation and this kind of glorying is wrong, then why is it wrong for us but all right for those in other dispensations?

Huh?

MAD refuses to allow a man glory in earning his salvation by merit in The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace, but MAD insists upon allowing those in other dispensations glory in earning their salvation by merit.

If merit was wrong for Abraham (Romans 4:2), the great Old Testament saint who was called the friend of God (James 2:23), then why is it all right for other Old Testament saints?

Huh?

What does MAD do about Abraham’s justification by faith alone?
MAD says that the Book of James says that Abraham was justified by his works.
MAD says that the Book of Romans says that Abraham was justified by his faith.
MAD negates Abraham’s justification by faith alone: after all, he wasn’t in The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace.

No man will have any right to boast or claim merit in heaven (Romans 3:27-28; 4:1-2; Ephesians 2:8-9).

3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

Works-salvation makes God a debtor to man, something He can never be. (Romans 4:3-5; 11:35)
True or false?

Non sequitur. "Works-Salvation" is an oxymoron.
However, God can and has made agreements (the Biblical term is "covenants") with men, which He is bound by His own word (and blood) to keep. And so your assertion that God "can never be" a debtor to man is overstated (depending on what you mean by "debtor" that is). More accurately God cannot be an unwilling or involuntary debtor to man.

4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Is “Faith-Salvation” an oxymoron?

MAD believes in "Works-Salvation" outside of The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace.
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

Even under the law, men came to God ultimately by faith. Even though their faith might be expressed in works (as ours should be), it was still faith that got God's attention.
True or false?
Again, AS STATED: True. However, being subject to the law was not optional prior to the Dispensation of the Grace of God. Prior to Paul the law was mandatory, after Paul it was (is) forbidden.

You said “True.”
“True” is the correct answer.
Their faith might be expressed in works as ours might be.
However, in MAD there is no “might” for them.
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ.
True or false?

It depends on what you mean by "certainly saved". If you mean "certainly saved" in the sense that we are "certainly saved" by having been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, then the answer is false. Any one of the Apostles could have turned from God at any time and had they died in such a condition they would not have been saved.

You said “False.”

The correct answer is “True.”

Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter believed in Christ as the Son of the living God and Jesus called him blessed for his faith and confession. Certainly this is a saved man.

In another instance, many of the disciples of Jesus (not the twelve) were leaving as they found His teaching too difficult to accept. Here is the story in part:

John 6:66-69 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Here we see that the faith of Peter was common to the twelve (he says "we believe"). The further context of this passage shows that Judas is the particular exception to their faith.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
lightninboy said:
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ.
True or false?

It depends on what you mean by "certainly saved". If you mean "certainly saved" in the sense that we are "certainly saved" by having been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, then the answer is false. Any one of the Apostles could have turned from God at any time and had they died in such a condition they would not have been saved.

You said “False.”

The correct answer is “True.”

Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter believed in Christ as the Son of the living God and Jesus called him blessed for his faith and confession. Certainly this is a saved man.

In another instance, many of the disciples of Jesus (not the twelve) were leaving as they found His teaching too difficult to accept. Here is the story in part:

John 6:66-69 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Here we see that the faith of Peter was common to the twelve (he says "we believe"). The further context of this passage shows that Judas is the particular exception to their faith.
The clear teaching of Jesus, as well as the twelve apostles themselves is that they could lose their salvation as my Scripture references clearly indicate (and yours as well for that matter). Did you just ignore the passages I cited or did you actually expect your personal opinion to trump the Scripture with me?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. Oh good grief! I just realized you've responded with three or four separate posts none of which use the formatting that the site provides specifically for the purposes of creating posts which are both easy to follow and easy to respond too. When you respond to me like a normal person, we can continue. Until then, I'm not interested in your opinions anyway. I repent of having responded too you in the first place.

:wave2:
 

lightninboy

Member
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply.

What was Jesus talking about in John 3 if not that Old Testament people had to have everlasting life the same way we do?

This question makes no sense.
Old Testament believers did have everlasting life, just as we do! The difference being that for them it was if they persevered to the end. (Matt 10:22; Luke 9:62; Hebrews 3:6; James 5:9-11), whereas today, Christ has already endured for us (Romans 8; Galatians 2:20; 2 Timothy 2:13).

10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

You have misinterpreted those verses.

How does the question make no sense?
You question how easily the Old Testament people could come to Christ.
You’ve lied if you’ve denied the common ground you’ve shared with Nicodemus.

One who has genuine everlasting life won’t have it quit on him it if he fails to persevere for it!
 

patman

Active member
thelaqachisnext

thelaqachisnext

True or false:

It is possible that Enoch was written after Isaiah and the author was quoting Isaiah?
 
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