The Myth of unMerited Favor and Grace

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Two 'groups' are not made one. Individuals from each group, Israel and Gentiles are made one in one body, the Body of Christ....a new creation.

Two messages? Two groups? A group made anything? I don't get it, either. We do have a group dynamic of the Lord pouring out grace and supplications on the house of David and Jerusalem in Zechariah 12, a group that did not previously believe, but this is at His coming to earth. In this age of grace, some call the church age, there is only the gospel of Jesus Christ and those individuals who receive that gospel, one body in Christ, scripture clear no spiritual Jews or Gentiles, nor even male or female. And there is only one New Testament gospel.

Quite honestly, I can't figure out what is going on in a lot of discussions in these forums, whole conversations that make no theological sense, without any explanations. Maybe it's just me, but there seems to always be all this doctrinal weirdness I can't figure out where it comes from, literally can't make sense of what some people are saying, in terms of the Christian faith, even figure out where some of it comes from, that doesn't resemble any denominational, or even cult teaching, for that matter.

 

[Tambora]

Find all of Jesus' teachings and not just one command he gave one person.

He didn't give the command to just one person.
It was to His disciples, His followers.
Are you a follower of Jesus?

You need to do that, and then obey what you can.

Whoa!
Why the sudden change from EVERYTHING to "what you can"?????
Are you finally starting to realize the lie you have been repeating over and over?

 

[God's Truth]

He didn't give the command to just one person.
It was to His disciples, His followers.
Are you a follower of Jesus?

Whoa!
Why the sudden change from EVERYTHING to "what you can"?????
Are you finally starting to realize the lie you have been repeating over and over?

There is NO WAY out of it, you must obey EVERYTHING that Jesus says.

 

[Tambora]

There is NO WAY out of it, you must obey EVERYTHING that Jesus says.

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Did Jesus ever tell them when to go and tell?

You should read the whole story it might help you.

 

[Crucible]

God elects those who obey.

They obey because they were elected

 

[God's Truth]

They obey because they were elected

No, God elects those who obey.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.


Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."


Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

 

[Crucible]

No, God elects those who obey.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.


Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."


Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Romans 8:29-30
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

No go back and read those verses with this in mind, and realize your interpretation (cherry picking) is wrong.

 

[steko]

What you said right there is against what the Bible says right here:


Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,


You are badly mistaken, Steko, because God bound all those faithless Jews to be right there were the non obeying Gentiles were.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The ISV is a very bad interpretation of Eph 2:14.
It's definitely not a word for word translation but a version with disguised opinion.

The word is 'amphoteros/both'. The word 'groups' is not in the Greek text.

Since you like Bible versions that add to the Scriptures, why not choose others instead which bring out a clearer meaning in harmony with the context:

"Eph 2:14 So he is our peace. In his body he has made Jewish and non-Jewish people one by breaking down the wall of hostility that kept them apart."-GOD's Word Bible

"Eph 2:14 Christ has made peace between Jews and Gentiles, and he has united us by breaking down the wall of hatred that separated us. Christ gave his own body"- Contemporary English Version

The word 'both' in Ephesians 2:14 is referring to the two peoples found in Ephesians 2:11 which speaks of individuals who were circumcised(Jews) and individuals who were uncircumcised(Gentiles).

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;


Under the Gospel of Grace, groups are not saved...individuals are.

 

[Danoh]

The ISV is a very bad interpretation of Eph 2:14.
It's definitely not a word for word translation but a version with disguised opinion.

The word is 'amphoteros/both'. The word 'groups' is not in the Greek text.

Since you like Bible versions that add to the Scriptures, why not choose others instead which bring out a clearer meaning in harmony with the context:

"Eph 2:14 So he is our peace. In his body he has made Jewish and non-Jewish people one by breaking down the wall of hostility that kept them apart."-GOD's Word Bible

"Eph 2:14 Christ has made peace between Jews and Gentiles, and he has united us by breaking down the wall of hatred that separated us. Christ gave his own body"- Contemporary English Version

The word 'both' in Ephesians 2:14 is referring to the two peoples found in Ephesians 2:11 which speaks of individuals who were circumcised(Jews) and individuals who were uncircumcised(Gentiles).

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;


Under the Gospel of Grace, groups are not saved...individuals are.

Yep; the same elements of two as one not only as to each's respective fall from each's expected obedience in time past, but (as to the two as one) now as to both's same hope, this side of Israel's fall, that Paul had already laid out in greater detail in Romans 1:18-3:30.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 8:29-30
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

No go back and read those verses with this in mind, and realize your interpretation (cherry picking) is wrong.

The plan is predestined not people. That scripture is about God foreknowing the Jews and how God did not cut them off forever.

 

[God's Truth]

The ISV is a very bad interpretation of Eph 2:14.
It's definitely not a word for word translation but a version with disguised opinion.

The word is 'amphoteros/both'. The word 'groups' is not in the Greek text.

Since you like Bible versions that add to the Scriptures, why not choose others instead which bring out a clearer meaning in harmony with the context:

"Eph 2:14 So he is our peace. In his body he has made Jewish and non-Jewish people one by breaking down the wall of hostility that kept them apart."-GOD's Word Bible

"Eph 2:14 Christ has made peace between Jews and Gentiles, and he has united us by breaking down the wall of hatred that separated us. Christ gave his own body"- Contemporary English Version

The word 'both' in Ephesians 2:14 is referring to the two peoples found in Ephesians 2:11 which speaks of individuals who were circumcised(Jews) and individuals who were uncircumcised(Gentiles).

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;


Under the Gospel of Grace, groups are not saved...individuals are.

You made a false accusation about me, and then you disproved NOTHING that I said.

 

[God's Truth]

God bound ALL to disobedience and He has mercy on us the same way, by believe and obedience, just as Jesus says.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They obey because they were elected

Sorry to spoil all your fun, but, there's no such thing as "The Calvinistic Elect." It doesn't nor has it ever existed. It's made up by Reformed folks (including John "The executioner" Calvin and his ilk.

They did it by misinterpreting Scriptures in order for those Scriptures to fit their "belief system."

 

[Crucible]

The plan is predestined not people. That scripture is about God foreknowing the Jews and how God did not cut them off forever.

Oh, so it's all of a sudden different for any verse speaking of predestination. How convenient

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

He was an apostle, and what he said was for the Jews too, the Jews whom he also preached to and hoped they would hear about the Gentiles whom he preached to.

Romans 11:13 "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:"

 

[steko]

You made a false accusation about me, and then you disproved NOTHING that I said.

Typical.

 

[steko]

Yep; the same elements of two as one not only as to each's respective fall from each's expected obedience in time past, but (as to the two as one) now as to both's same hope, this side of Israel's fall, that Paul had already laid out in greater detail in Romans 1:18-3:30.

:thumb: Right on!

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 11:13 "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:"

He was an apostle of Jesus Christ to everyone.

 

[God's Truth]

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

Who said that?

To whom was it said?