The Myth of unMerited Favor and Grace

[God's Truth]

Oh, so it's all of a sudden different for any verse speaking of predestination. How convenient

The plan is predestined not the people. The Jews are those God foreknew.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

Romans 11:2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:

 

[Crucible]

The plan is predestined not the people. The Jews are those God foreknew.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

Romans 11:2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:

Ephesians 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

Being that it's mostly Gentiles who are Christian, I'd say God isn't very good at planning.

Or

You are simply wrong in your interpretation.


John believed in sovereign election. Dang- wonder what made you all miss that. Couldn't have anything to do with selective interpretation

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

 

[God's Truth]

Ephesians 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

That scripture is about the plan of salvation being made before the creation of the world.

Being that it's mostly Gentiles who are Christian, I'd say God isn't very good at planning.

Or

You are simply wrong in your interpretation.

There are a lot more Gentiles in the world. So your point is?


According to your false beliefs, God had a thing against certain class of people, such as the rich, and educated. According to your false understanding, God had a thing against certain professions such as being a Pharisee, but liked the tax collector profession and prostitution. Your false beliefs make it so that God predestined people He wanted to save to be in certain professions, a specific class.

So tell me, do you really want to keep believing that insanity? God does not predestine those He will save to be prostitutes, tax collectors, poor, and uneducated.
That is EXACTLY what your insane beliefs entail.

The reason why the rich, educated, and the Pharisees were not chosen for salvation, was because they were proud and would not humble themselves. The reason those who are saved are saved, it is because they humbled themselves more readily than the others.

John believed in sovereign election. Dang- wonder what made you all miss that. Couldn't have anything to do with selective interpretation

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

That scripture is WHEN JESUS WAS ON THE EARTH. God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not already have faith in Him before Jesus preached to them.

 

[Crucible]

According to your false beliefs, God had a thing against certain class of people, such as the rich, and educated.

Yes.
These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.


And
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to..


I know these things are hard on your eyes, so you can just skip to here: YES, GOD DOES HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST CERTAIN PEOPLE

You're hippie, lawless 'free grace' nonsense is exactly that- nonsense. God didn't build Hell for those who didn't mutter a certain sentence at some point in their life, He built it for the reprobate whom He never knew.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes.
These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.


And
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to..


I know these things are hard on your eyes, so you can just skip to here: YES, GOD DOES HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST CERTAIN PEOPLE

So God predestined those He wanted to save to be prostitutes, poor, and uneducated?

Only the unstable and ensnared could hold to that belief.

Again, the rich and educated were too proud to humble themselves.

 

[God's Truth]

You're hippie, lawless 'free grace' nonsense is exactly that- nonsense. God didn't build Hell for those who didn't mutter a certain sentence at some point in their life,

God's Word is written down so that people can seek and find.

He built it for the reprobate whom He never knew.

The scripture where Jesus says I never knew you is about the people NOT REPENTING OF THEIR SINS.

God knows those who obey Him.

 

[God's Truth]

God lives in us and we in Him when we obey Him.

 

[God's Truth]

God does not even know you if you do not love Him by obeying.

See 1 Corinthians 8:3, and John 14:15, and 1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands.

In addition, 2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

You do not know God if you do not obey. If you do not know God and obey, you will be punished.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

 

[Crucible]

God's Word is written down so that people can seek and find.



The scripture where Jesus says I never knew you is about the people NOT REPENTING OF THEIR SINS.

God knows those who obey Him.

Apparently, you have zero understanding of predestination and providence if you think that suffices as an argument.

Typical "I'm against Calvinism just because". There's too many of you on a theology site

 

[God's Truth]

Apparently, you have zero understanding of predestination and providence if you think that suffices as an argument.

Typical 'I'm against Calvinism just because'.

Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


They were evil doers because they never repented of their sins.

 

[God's Truth]

Typical "I'm against Calvinism just because". There's too many of you on a theology site

I would love to debate it deeply with you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Grace that is merited is called payment of debt and is no longer grace anymore. Romans 4

Seeing that you are a sinner and have nothing to offer as payment you should stop while you're behind.

Paul's comparison of Grace and works is simply to say that God can not be obligated through works.
Any attempt to obligate God is works, not Grace.
Any attempt to obligate God is based on pride.

Grace is God deciding what pleases Him, and showing favor towards someone that He decides merits that favor for pleasing Him.
The merit is not in your eyes or in my eyes, it is in God's eyes alone.

God does make it easier for us by telling us what pleases Him.
Even a sinner has something to offer God, though it is not offered as payment.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So what things that God commands would you consider leaving out of obeying?

Jesus reveals himself in an amazing way...to the ones who obey him.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Neither God nor Jesus expects blind obedience.
This is proven by the accounts of Moses and Peter arguing with God and Jesus, respectively, about commands that they were given.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If you HAVE to, it is not grace, but debt.

If you have been redeemed, you have been purchased and your life is not your own.
You HAVE to obey the one that purchased you because of that.
That is what being a slave is all about.
(KJV mistranslates it as "servant" instead of "slave".)

 

[Tambora]

If you have been redeemed, you have been purchased and your life is not your own.
You HAVE to obey the one that purchased you because of that.
That is what being a slave is all about.
(KJV mistranslates it as "servant" instead of "slave".)

Galatians 3:28 KJV
(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The four Gospels were written to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel. The Gentiles were not included.

Luke wrote his Gospel to Gentiles.
Theophilus is a Greek name (means friend of God).

Luke 1:1-4 1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

The "Kingdom message" was preached to the House of Israel (Jews) by Peter and the rest.
The "Grace Message" was preached by Paul and his group to the Gentiles.
Two different messages were being preached back then.

Paul's message to the Gentiles was: Salvation by Grace through faith alone.
Peter's message to the Jews was: Salvation by faith and works.
Today, we go by Paul's Gospel alone and it includes both Jew and Gentile alike.

Paul preached the Kingdom message.
It says so in the very last verse of Acts.

Acts 28:30-31 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Some posters are not teachable. We all know who they are.

Your name is at the top of that list.
:chuckle:

 

[genuineoriginal]

If you have been redeemed, you have been purchased and your life is not your own.
You HAVE to obey the one that purchased you because of that.
That is what being a slave is all about.
(KJV mistranslates it as "servant" instead of "slave".)

Galatians 3:28 KJV
(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.​

If you are not your own, why do you insist on acting like you are?

 

[Tambora]

Galatians 4:7 KJV
(7) Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.