Taxation Is Theft

[Crucible]

You, sir, do not care about the debt. If you did, you'd stop trying to perpetuate it and contribute to the discussion about how to end it. Continuing to swipe the credit card and extorting the public to pay the interest isn't doing to solve it, I'm sorry to tell you.

I don't care about this world, buddy. It's wicked and greedy, and the economy is nothing but a gigantic hustle- trading things that are worth pennies for your whole billfold.

If you want to play Blind Man and pretend this country wasn't founded on rank monopoly in the first place, then go right ahead. As for me, I don't put stock in legal thievery, I'm like Robin Hood bro :chuckle:

 

[Daniel1769]

because you want to take on the task of building the road yourself, moron



now how much is it gonna cost you to rent one of those?

Dude, you're a total idiot. This whole conversation has been about how private citizens could fund infrastructure voluntarily, not how one person could finance the whole system alone. You admitted you don't pay taxes and you live off of the government. Based on your arguments, I assume you're a young kid that doesn't know anything. I never have blocked anyone on here before no matter how heated discussions got, but your ignorance is annoying. Don't bother responding to me because you're blocked, ya moron. Get a job.

 

[Daniel1769]

I don't care about this world, buddy. It's wicked and greedy, and the economy is nothing but a gigantic hustle- trading things that are worth pennies for your whole billfold.

If you want to play Blind Man and pretend this country wasn't founded on rank monopoly in the first place, then go right ahead. As for me, I don't put stock in thieves, I'm Robin Hood BRO :rotfl:

If you don't care, why are you in this discussion?

 

[ok doser]

This whole conversation has been about how private citizens could fund infrastructure voluntarily....

ok, so you're planning to create a volunteer organization of private citizens to fund the rental of one of those road-building machines to voluntarily build your road


how much is gonna cost you to rent one of those?

 

[Crucible]

If you don't care, why are you in this discussion?

Because when the lesser of two evils is the most good that can be done, sitting there twiddling your thumbs makes you vain.

Do something about the debt, and maybe this country won't dissolve into globalization. It's worth the fat cats getting fatter rather than this world being the joke it's becoming in Europe.

 

[quip]

No, the money goes to a different method. If one entity is providing sub par service, you move the money to a better one. This is the free market. That's like saying "I had a bad meal at this restaurant, I'm never eating there again. I'll just throw the entire restaurant industry out with the bathwater." No, you'd go to a better restaurant next time. I'm not sure why free market principles are so difficult to understand, especially since that's what we're supposed to be using in general. Somehow when applying these principles to other areas, people cannot fathom it. As if a road is so complex that only the magic of government can construct one.

Unlike the freemarket system your money is pooled among a varity of goods and services, some of little concern to the average tax payer. Rather you'd prefer to cherry pick what to pay into and what to exclude. Social duties require all to contribute independe
nt of personal interest.

 

[ok doser]

i was sorry to see him quit last night when he was so close to realizing that what he is proposing is just another layer of government, even if it is called "voluntary" and "privatized"

 

[Clete]

You haven't crushed anything to dust. You believe in stealing money at gun point. Period.

This is a lie, Daniel.

When you say something that you know is false, that's called a lie.

You're a liar.

I've very clearly explained what I believe and I've repeatedly demonstrated how your arguments against taxation work equally well against anything that a government does.

Be gone, statist. I've heard your stupid arguments a million times.

If so, you ought to have been able to respond to them directly and to have presented something that resembled a refutation of them. You've done neither. As I recall, you made exactly one single argument that rested on the premise that the government derives its authority from a popular vote of the governed, which I refuted directly by pointing out the false premise. You never responded to that at all and so tacitly conceded the point. If it was not your intention to concede the point, you should have responded with an argument to the contrary. Such arguments are known as rejoinders. People who debate things know this already but you seem to be ignorant of how debates are supposed to work. Maybe you should take a class or something.

"Hurr durr muh roads and muh troops hurr durr, need anuther 20 trillion dolllars, hurr durr." Good day.

You've never heard me say anything remotely similar to this stupidity. In fact, I've already directly responded to this basic argument of yours as well. This is nothing more than you repeating the, "Because this country taxes unjustly, therefore all taxation is unjust." argument. It's an over reaction to the extreme. The logic simply does not follow.

Why are you even here, if you aren't going to actually debate by making and substantively responding to arguments? I can tell you from direct personal experience, you have almost zero chance of ever convincing anyone here of anything. The only point of even being here is to make the argument so as to sharpen your own iron, primarily for your own benefit. If you came here to preach, you're wasting your time, not to mention boring everyone to tears.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

If the global debt is $200 Trillion, that means America represents 10% of the world's debt. America makes up about 4.44% of the world population.

4.44% of the world population makes up 10% of the world debt. Yeah, I guess you're right. It's not that bad.

Are you joking or trying to be serious?

The overwhelming majority of our national "debt" is debt that we owe ourselves, Daniel. The U.S. Government is "loaned" every dollar that is created by the Federal Reserve. The currency system that exists in this country (and most countries around the world as well) is one gigantic Ponzi scheme. The U.S. started down the Ponzi road last, by a long shot and so will very likely be the last man standing. Otherwise, we'd all be in a lot of trouble. As it is, all of the whole world's money will flow into the U.S. Dollar and the U.S. stock market as the rest of the world's monetary systems lose the confidence of their people. So short the Euro and gold and leave your 401K in the S&P 500.

None of that - NONE OF IT - has anything to do with whether it is just for a government to collect taxes.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Again, you completely miss my point. I'm not talking about what kind of government the founding fathers designed. I'm talking about the kind of government that God wants us to be under. When God gave the Law to Moses, he put in it how a monarchy should be run, meaning that monarchy is the form of government that God wants.

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The House of Israel (Jews) were the first to ask God for a King and He gave them Saul.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The overwhelming majority of our national "debt" is debt that we owe ourselves, Daniel. The U.S. Government is "loaned" every dollar that is created by the Federal Reserve. The currency system that exists in this country (and most countries around the world as well) is one gigantic Ponzi scheme. The U.S. started down the Ponzi road last, by a long shot and so will very likely be the last man standing. Otherwise, we'd all be in a lot of trouble. As it is, all of the whole world's money will flow into the U.S. Dollar and the U.S. stock market as the rest of the world's monetary systems lose the confidence of their people. So short the Euro and gold and leave your 401K in the S&P 500.

None of that - NONE OF IT - has anything to do with whether it is just for a government to collect taxes.

Resting in Him,
Clete

I remember back in the mid-seventies, I had a desire to purchase a few ounces of Gold. It was at about $240.00 an ounce I believe. I called around and some guy told me to wait because Gold was gonna go down in value. Well, I waited and shortly thereafter it went up to over $900.00 an ounce. Today it's over $1,100.00 an ounce. Then, I was told by somebody that I ought to invest in Silver. At that time, it was at $6.00 and ounce. I didn't listen to that guy and shortly thereafter, it went up to over $60.00 and ounce. Today, silver is at $16.94 an ounce. I've had the misfortune to listen to someone's bad advice and lose out and on the other end, not listen to someone else's advice and miss out. Always a day late and a dollar short. Let this be a cautionary tale.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The House of Israel (Jews) were the first to ask God for a King and He gave them Saul.

This is true. What's your point?

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Crucible]

Again, you completely miss my point. I'm not talking about what kind of government the founding fathers designed. I'm talking about the kind of government that God wants us to be under. When God gave the Law to Moses, he put in it how a monarchy should be run, meaning that monarchy is the form of government that God wants.

A monarchy is not what God desires, it was simply what worked during their time. God wouldn't have waited so long to establish a king after having established law and government for them- a king was for the intention of moving on along other nations, who all had kings- the world only respected rulers.

God doesn't seem to be enthused about people's desire for a king- He'll give good ones to the obedient, and wicked ones to reprobates. In other words, people pretty much reap what they sow with rulers, it is not some fundamentally holy or commanded thing.

 

[JudgeRightly]

A monarchy is not what God desires, it was simply what worked during their time. God wouldn't have waited so long to establish a king after having established law and government for them- a king was for the intention of moving on along other nations, who all had kings- the world only respected rulers.

God doesn't seem to be enthused about people's desire for a king- He'll give good ones to the obedient, and wicked ones to reprobates. In other words, people pretty much reap what they sow with rulers, it is not some fundamentally holy or commanded thing.

He wasn't happy about them wanting a king because he had a specific person in mind, one who's genealogy would lead directly to Christ. That would have been Saul, but he was wicked, and so God cut off Saul's bloodline, and used David's. There's a reason God put in the Law the requirements for a king. Consider that Israel's history without a king (see Judges) was not a period of national glory. God wanted a king for Israel, but of His choosing. and at His timing.

If God did not want a monarchy for Israel, then why would he put such requirements in the Law? Something else to consider: Jesus is the King, do you think that he would want a democracy during his reign?

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[aCultureWarrior]

Again, you completely miss my point. I'm not talking about what kind of government the founding fathers designed. I'm talking about the kind of government that God wants us to be under. When God gave the Law to Moses, he put in it how a monarchy should be run, meaning that monarchy is the form of government that God wants.

Not so, as shown in my link (which you obviously didn't read). Our forefathers were absolutely brilliant in designing the best form of government ever known to mankind (where rights come from God).

Think about this: Not even the two other institutions that God ordained for the governance of man (the Church and the family) are run by a "sole and absolute ruler".

Be grateful that you live in a representative constitutional republic where you can vote for God fearing men and women into various positions of government and tell them to take a hike if they don't live up to their campaign promises.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Not so, as shown in my link (which you obviously didn't read). Our forefathers were absolutely brilliant in designing the best form of government ever known to mankind (where rights come from God).

Think about this: Not even the two other institutions that God ordained for the governance of man (the Church and the family) are run by a "sole and absolute ruler".

Be grateful that you live in a representative constitutional republic where you can vote for God fearing men and women into various positions of government and tell them to take a hike if they don't live up to their campaign promises.

So you're saying that a bunch of men gathered for weeks in a hot Philadelphia room could come up with something better than what God could come up with? Please explain.

So the pastor doesn't run the church? Does the congregation decide what is good for the church?

The father is not the head of the family? Do the children out-vote the decisions of the parents?

Consider this verse:
Matthew 7:13-14
"13*“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide*is*the gate and broad*is*the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.*14*Because[a]*narrow*is*the gate and difficult*is*the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

In a democracy, you have majority rule. The vote of the majority outweighs the rule of the people. God says that the majority is wicked. So when you advocate for democracy, you're advocating for something that allows a majority win, then the wicked would be the ones in power, and the righteous will not have a majority.

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[Clete]

I remember back in the mid-seventies, I had a desire to purchase a few ounces of Gold. It was at about $240.00 an ounce I believe. I called around and some guy told me to wait because Gold was gonna go down in value. Well, I waited and shortly thereafter it went up to over $900.00 an ounce. Today it's over $1,600.00 an ounce. Then, I was told by somebody that I ought to invest in Silver. At that time, it was at $6.00 and ounce. I didn't listen to that guy and shortly thereafter, it went up to over $60.00 and ounce. Today, silver is at $16.94 an ounce. I've had the misfortune to listen to someone's bad advice and lose out and on the other end, not listen to someone else's advice and miss out. Always a day late and a dollar short. Let this be a cautionary tale.

The price of gold is more like $1160 per ounce and it's going below $1000 perhaps a lot lower. In fact, it will almost certainly go to half it's peak price, which, in U.S. Dollars was 1923.70, half of which is 961.85. I wouldn't touch gold with a ten foot pole until it not only touched that number but showed evidence of an uptrend with support in that price area, which is a year or more away.

India, the by far largest market of gold in the world, is starting to actually confiscate gold. Literally going door to door and confiscating anything over a certain allowed amount of physical gold. Countries all over the civilized world are making it impossible to travel with gold and doing all sorts of other things that make it unattractive to own gold. It is an international hunt for taxes because the governments that have participated in the greatest Ponzi scheme in the history of mankind cannot find the money to pay their U.S. Dollar denominated debt and understand that the bubble is about to pop. Don't believe the lies that the people selling you gold tell you about how precious medals are real money. It's not true. Money is whatever people will exchange for goods and services. It can be anything from cow dung to toilet paper. Gold is no different than any other commidity. If you buy gold in U.S. Dollars, you are effectively shorting the dollar. All you need to know to figure out that this is not a good idea is to realize that as bad a shape as we are in, the whole rest of the world is a lot worse. We are, by far, the prettiest penny in the drawer and as such, the world's money is going to flee the worse economies and flow to the U.S.

I'll leave it to you to decide if it sounds like I know what I'm talking about.

Cheers!
Clete

 

[aCultureWarrior]

So you're saying that a bunch of men gathered for weeks in a hot Philadelphia room could come up with something better than what God could come up with? Please explain.

Your ignorance of our nation's history is appalling, even more so your ignorance of Holy Scripture is as well. I'll explain below.

So the pastor doesn't run the church? Does the congregation decide what is good for the church?

He is not the "sole and absolute" ruler. If the Elders decide that he is not going down the path that they want their church going, they can oust him.

"According to the New Testament, elders are responsible for the primary leadership and oversight of a church."
http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-the-role-of-an-elder

The father is not the head of the family? Do the children out-vote the decisions of the parents?

You just made my point by using the word "parents". While the father is the head of the family, he is not the "sole and absolute ruler" (if your wife doesn't have say in how her family is run, then you need to seek counseling).

In a democracy, you have majority rule. The vote of the majority outweighs the rule of the people. God says that the majority is wicked. So when you advocate for democracy, you're advocating for something that allows a majority win, then the wicked would be the ones in power, and the righteous will not have a majority.

Thank you! Our founding fathers feared a democracy, hence the reason they gave us a representative constitutional republic.

Obviously you're ignorant of our nation's founding where are rights come from God and are "unalienable".
http://www.gemworld.com/USA-Unalienable.htm

Perhaps sometime soon I'll start a thread on our nation's Judeo-Christian founding so that the uninformed can understand why we at one time were so blessed to live in the United States of America and can be once again if we return to that form of government.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The price of gold is more like $1160 per ounce and it's going below $1000 perhaps a lot lower. In fact, it will almost certainly go to half it's peak price, which, in U.S. Dollars was 1923.70, half of which is 961.85. I wouldn't touch gold with a ten foot pole until it not only touched that number but showed evidence of an uptrend with support in that price area, which is a year or more away.

India, the by far largest market of gold in the world, is starting to actually confiscate gold. Literally going door to door and confiscating anything over a certain allowed amount of physical gold. Countries all over the civilized world are making it impossible to travel with gold and doing all sorts of other things that make it unattractive to own gold. It is an international hunt for taxes because the governments that have participated in the greatest Ponzi scheme in the history of mankind cannot find the money to pay their U.S. Dollar denominated debt and understand that the bubble is about to pop. Don't believe the lies that the people selling you gold tell you about how precious medals are real money. It's not true. Money is whatever people will exchange for goods and services. It can be anything from cow dung to toilet paper. Gold is no different than any other commidity. If you buy gold in U.S. Dollars, you are effectively shorting the dollar. All you need to know to figure out that this is not a good idea is to realize that as bad a shape as we are in, the whole rest of the world is a lot worse. We are, by far, the prettiest penny in the drawer and as such, the world's money is going to flee the worse economies and flow to the U.S.

I'll leave it to you to decide if it sounds like I know what I'm talking about.

Cheers!
Clete

I stand corrected. Gold is what you said, I read it wrong this morning, thanks.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

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