I don't look at ANY part of the Bible as "wrong." Why would you assume such a thing?
Everything in the Bible I have to take seriously, however much it might challenge my behavior or when it clearly contradicts the authentic "voice print" of Jesus.
Show me the good news
- Thread starter heir
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Everything in the Bible I have to take seriously, however much it might challenge my behavior or when it clearly contradicts the authentic "voice print" of Jesus.
achduke
Active member
Because of the above^ You think Paul is using his own interpretation even though he has the Holy Spirit to lead him.
Right Divider
Body part
Look it up. The WE there is NOT US, it is all about Israel.
Rom 8:36 KJV As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Psa 44:22 KJV Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.
Psa 44:22 KJV Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.
Yep.
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed. It also shows the need to actually study the scripture and not just do a word search for 'sheep'.
To begin with, the twelve tribes were well past scattered at that point and will be when Christ returns. It was not possible to address them as a body in Peter's day in any way that they could hear in that they themselves likely didn't even know who they were at that time … the woman at the well being an obvious exception. That said, If you want to know whom one is writing to it customary to read the first of the letter. Let's have a look:
1 Peter 1: 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Strangers? Does that sound like he's talking to his kin? Elect? Who are the elect in your opinion? A subject worthy of its own thread. Grace? Who receives grace? The twelve tribes? The rest of us? Both?
As it concerns sheep you've got two choices … your either a sheep or a goat in the resurrection … choose wisely. Another subject worthy of it own thread but you can start with Mat 25.
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oatmeal
Well-known member
Heir,
Believing who Jesus Christ is is only the first half of Romans 10:9. Therefore, if that is actually all you did or understood from Romans 10:9, then you were not saved at that point.
Confessing the Lord Jesus does not get anyone saved for there are two requirements, the other being that we believe in our heart that God raised him from the dead.
You are right, Romans 10:9-10 does not tell us why Jesus willingly obeyed His Father to die on our behalf.
Personally, I believe that there are many people, church goers, even present day God rejectors who at one time did meet the two requirements of Romans 10:9 and have received the gift of salvation, but they do not yet know it. I John 5:13. Again, personally, I believe that I received the gift of salvation when in grade school. I doubt I understood the word salvation or was even concerned about being saved, but neither of those two issues are one of the two requirements of receiving salvation. We can receive the gift of salvation without knowing what it is we received, even as we receive a gift nicely wrapped without knowing what is in it.
Again personally, did I have some huge backlog of sins at the age of say 7 that compelled me to seek salvation? No. But confessing the Lord Jesus and believing in my heart that God raised him from the dead seemed a good idea to me so I did it. Was I familiar with Romans 10:9? No, I was not, but as long as I had heard that Jesus is Lord .... I could believe that without knowing why the cross.
You are right, there is no mention of the cross in Romans 10:9-10.
What does a person need to know to reach the two conclusions? Certainly, knowing the cross could be part of realizing that Jesus is Lord but we must get beyond the cross and realize that God raised him from the dead.
I am quite sure, having attended RCC parochial school that I would have learned of the cross and other things.
You are right, Romans 10:9-10 does not tell us why Jesus willingly obeyed His Father to die on our behalf.
But here we must learn that that is not the point of Romans 10:9-10.
The point of Romans 10:9-10 is to tell us how to receive salvation, it most certainly does not tell us all we need to know to reach the conclusions of Romans 10:9-10. The information we need to reach those two conclusions is in many other passages of scripture, not in Romans 10:9.
If some one asks me how to receive the gift of salvation from God, I tell them to do Romans 10:9-10, those are the only two requirements to receive.
However, you point out correctly that we must know enough about the whats, whys, whos, etc. to reach those conclusions.
If someone asked me how I reached those conclusions then I would have to tell them much much more than Romans 10:9.
Which if I now read you correctly is your point.
Do I read you correctly?
Right Divider
Body part
You show an extraordinary combination of high regard for you own opinion and an extreme lack of knowledge.
Of course Peter calls them stranger, they were ALL in foreign lands (as he clearly spells out in verse one). Not too hard to understand.
Once AGAIN, Paul NEVER even ONCE refers to believers in the dispensation of the grace of God as sheep. But no doubt, that is hard for you to understand.
Regarding Peter's reference to "elect":
Isa 45:4 KJV For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
This the 'elect' that he is writing to... you know, the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
A) He is addressing foreigners .. I don't know about you but that is not how I would address my brethren ... unless I was addressing gentile brethren.
B) You ducked my points about about sheep/goats, elect and grace. I think that telling.
C) As it regards my knowledge of the word of God I think your knowledge of that subject sufficiently sparse to label your estimation of it premature at best. After all, you know little of my contributions to this site over the years. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't necessitate them being ignorant. There are other possibilities.
The only thing you understand is the fabricated mess of pre-tribulationism. That's why you pervert the words of Peter and ultimately God's Word.
The elect Peter is talking about is Christians.
The 'elect' always refers to Christians in the New Testament. The word elect is the same word as chosen and in every verse I looked at it always referred to Christians and a few times to angels and Christ. It's the same word as chosen in the NT.
The word elect is 'eklektos' which means...
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by
God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a)
Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the
Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
The word elect, chosen-'eklektos,' is used in the following verses in the NT where it always refers to Christians... whether Jew or gentile!
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Check also...
Matthew 20:16, John 13:18, 15:16, Acts 15:22, 15:25, Romans 8:33, 16:13, 1 Corinthians 1:27-28, Ephesians 1:4, Colossians 3:12, James 2:5, 2 Timothy 2:10, Titus 1:1, 1 Peter 1:2, 2:9, 5:13, Revelation 17:14.
If God wanted the elect of Mathew 24 or Peter to mean Jews, He would have used a different Greek word. Probably this one...
1445. Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from
1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.
Now use a little common sense and READ 1 Peter 1:2...Notice the things I've emphasized and explain to me HOW that can imply ISRAEL!
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
My aim to to make it onto all four categories of your undersirables list!
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achduke
Active member
I do not believe that there is a difference between Israel and the Gentile believers. We are all Israel and we are all grafted onto the root.
Still where do you get that the We is Israel? Romans 1:13 says among other gentiles implying they are gentiles also. This is the context throughout the chapters. Chapter 8 is about being spiritual. Do you believe that only Israel is spiritual? Does that mean the believing Gentiles are in the flesh?
Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Do you believe Jesus when he said "Why do you call ME good? Only God is good."
How do you interpret him when he said "Love your enemies"?
What about his admonition to "Pray to the Father in secret"?
Do you profess love for God and at the same time remain enslaved to your bank account? ( "You cannot love both God and mammon.").
Learn how to be an adult Christian and instead of calling me a "Liar," simply say something like "When you say ___________, I have trouble believing you."
Name calling has no place in good communication skills.
He doesn't answer questions that debunk his beliefs.
That's what it's all about: the interpretations, opinions and theologies of inspired men.
Even translations are opinions. Take a look at any Christian bookstore and take note of the different translations and versions of the Bible.
Take a look at the diversity on TOL, for gosh sakes!
You are right. The elect refers to ALL those who have accepted Christ whether Jew or gentile.
heir
TOL Subscriber
What a mess!
heir
TOL Subscriber
Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
achduke
Active member
Please share! Do you not believe we are one body? Do you not believe we are grafted onto the root? What is the purpose of segregating yourself from the body?
heir
TOL Subscriber
No, not with Israel, but those to whom Paul was first sent during the acts provoking ministry. We are fellowheirs and of the same Body with them by the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV)
We're not grafted into anything, but baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV).
I don't. I am a member of the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27 KJV).