This was prior to his death. His death was an atonement for all who would avail themselves of it through faith. Do you not believe this?
Show me the good news
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This was prior to his death. His death was an atonement for all who would avail themselves of it through faith. Do you not believe this?
A) You didn't answer the question.
B) You once again plucked a verse out of context
C) you still haven't offered text, in context or out, that indicates the timing of our redemption is at any time other than Christ's return
Again you ignore the scripture I offer as well as it's point and pluck a few verses from scripture that have nothing to do with the subject at hand ...
When are we redeemed?. Show me in scripture.
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"It stands to reason" … See? No scripture, just reasoning. Or, maybe better said, the doctrines of men. Like the ones Paul talked about. You toss inapplicable scripture citations around like Hagy. Show me scripture that points to the timing of our redemption. I have, but for some reason you won't even acknowledge them. Can you not see them or is there some doctrine that you have embraced which renders them invisible?
How so?
Incorrect, we await much more than just the redemption of our body:
1 Cor 13: 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Rev 6: 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Study the white robes. They are the body of the resurrection. This body is not the only thing that is new in this arrangement.
Mark 2: 22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Yup
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There is a lot of bad news in your good news thread. This is what Robert Pate is always harping about. Not you, the worker bees.
Zeke
Well-known member
Depends on how you understand the terms used, dead taken literally gives the impression that it is speaking only about physical death, yet it could just as well be a metaphoric teaching about ones state of mind which could be dead/blind to the Spirit, Romans 12:2, Ephesians 4:23, Galatians 3:2, Ephesians 2:1, Colossians 2:13,Ephesians 2:5, Luke 15:24, Matt 8:22, etc.............The christian disregard for prior cultures that taught the Soul was imprisoned in the physical body in a state of Divine amnesia/hell/grave leaves the mind at the mercy of the Priest class teaching that flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom through a human sacrifice, and is blinded to the two aspects of the scripture which is stated in 2Cor 3:6, two births one by the flesh and one by the Spirit, under the guidance of two Fathers and Mothers, one flesh and one Spiritual, Galatians 4:24-28 explains it as being allegorical showing that Isaac was a symbol of the inner child born in the first born of the flesh Galatians 4:3, not an actual sibling tradition needs you to buy into it's history by looking back like lots wife, you dress both in a garb of two distinct bodies of flesh and blood when one is earthy and the other heavenly 1Cor 15:45, 2Cor 5:16, just like you looked for Santa in the flesh when you were still a child.
To be like Isaac one doesn't need to enter again through a womb of flesh to be reborn from a state of death. John 11:26, John 5:26, Galatians 4:6.
heir
TOL Subscriber
I've shown plenty of scripture of how we are saved, when and by what means. You believe not any of it which is why you still have not and cannot answer what is the gospel of YOUR salvation and why you believe not that anyone is saved presently even though Paul uses the present tense of "are saved" pertaining to the believer's salvation at least five times. You are nothing more than a troll.
heir
TOL Subscriber
No good news of your salvation is bad news.
Now, now, just because I rubbed your nose in scripture and you have no answer for it doesn't mean you have to start calling me names ... oh, wait, that's right ... that's how we "truth smack".
Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -
Didja read the thread?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Why play the game then?
Romans through Thessalonians is the good news specifically to those born again of God's spirit.
Romans 10:9-10 is still the how of receiving the gift of salvation/eternal life.
Adding anything to those two elements not increase the size of the gift, nor does it make it a better gift. We all receive the measure of faith, Romans 12:3
Having received the gift of salvation, we must energize, work out that internal gift if we are to see the benefits of it in our present lifetime. Philippians 2:12-13,
Hence Romans thru Thessalonians is the way to energize that gift in us.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Nope. Trusting the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is what seals the deal!
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Romans 3:26!
oatmeal
Well-known member
Actually it is the words of a man that knows that his salvation is an accomplished truth.
He is not talking about his own salvation but sharing God's word that others might receive the gift of salvation.
Being a "castaway" does not refer to, as some erroneously believe, to a loss of salvation but is literally, disqualified from the competition.
1 Corinthians 9:25
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
2 Timothy 2:5
And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
If we are to strive for the mastery, we must strive lawfully.
Note Paul is not talking about striving to earn or keep his salvation but for the mastery.
Mastery over what?
His old man nature, his adversary and striving to do God's will in every area of his life according to the gift of Christ.
He is striving to achieve a crown, not salvation.
A crown for winning others
Well, that's real nice that we have you here to tell us what he really meant ... instead of what he plainly said. That's pretty big business these days ... selling "Christianity lite" ... all of the reward with none of the sacrifice. Spiritual cotton candy.
He said what he said. Hear it or don't ... at your own peril.
BTW ... here's your crown:
1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Philippians 3:14 KJV - Philippians 3:15 KJV -
For future reference, the gospel of our salvation is this: Hearing, understanding and believing this will seal you with that Holy Spirit of promise -
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -
that is the gospel of our salvation and again, hearing it, understanding it and believing and trusting in Christ saves you !!!
Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
oatmeal
Well-known member
Should you ever read Romans 10:9-10, and actually pay attention to the words and their meanings, you would not disagree, but rather joy and rejoice on how simple receiving salvation is.
See for yourself.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
There are only two conditions to meet.
1. Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus
2. Believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.
What do you then receive?
Thou shalt be saved.
See how simple God made it!
It is too simple for those who do not understand nor accept God's grace.
Religious people want to do works to earn it.
They refuse God's love and compassion.
Read, really read it for once.
When some reads Romans 10:9-10 and does what is says by
they shall be saved.