Show me the good news

[heir]

Yes, saved by faith and I know it. Salvation can be taken for granted by those who by faith realize the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of all mankind. Paul's atonement doctrine was a compromise for the spiritually lazy.

Not a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: no salvation! It is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). Without it, you are OUT (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)!

 

[patrick jane]

Yes, saved by faith and I know it. Salvation can be taken for granted by those who by faith realize the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of all mankind. Paul's atonement doctrine was a compromise for the spiritually lazy.

Blashphemy

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

You first.

Ok, I'll bite.
Jesus Himself is the good news! His love, the Father's love, His grace, His love and Spirit inside of us. This is accomplished by His blood demonstrating that God is Just and He is love. When I first trusted Him, His love and forgiveness and Spirit came upon me. Reconciled to God. Now I choose to ingratiate His Spirit or my flesh. And so does anyone who meets him spirit to spirit. We have free will we choose.
"For the one sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit, will from the Spirit reap eternal life." Galatians 6:8

 

[heir]

Ok, I'll bite.
Jesus Himself is the good news! His love, the Father's love, His grace, His love and Spirit inside of us. This is accomplished by His blood demonstrating that God is Just and He is love. When I first trusted Him, His love and forgiveness and Spirit came upon me. Reconciled to God. Now I choose to ingratiate His Spirit or my flesh. And so does anyone who meets him spirit to spirit. We have free will we choose.
"For the one sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit, will from the Spirit reap eternal life." Galatians 6:8

You'll bite? It's a valid question/ There are thousands of people who call themselves "Christian"and yet cannot answer, "What is the gospel of your salvation?". Paul writes that the word of truth is the "gospel of your salvation" in Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV and since he declares the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV it stands to reason that the fact that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day is that gospel! And it doesn't take much digging to see that he preached it as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (at that time to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16 KJV) and that it is by grace through the faith, that not of ourselves, but the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

You'll bite? It's a valid question/ There are thousands of people who call themselves "Christian"and yet cannot answer, "What is the gospel of your salvation?". Paul writes that the word of truth is the "gospel of your salvation" in Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV and since he declares the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV it stands to reason that the fact that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day is that gospel! And it doesn't take much digging to see that he preached it as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (at that time to the Jew first and also to the Greek Romans 1:16 KJV) and that it is by grace through the faith, that not of ourselves, but the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).

It also doesn't take much digging in scripture to see that the gift of God is himself at the cross and His Spirit that can make us be what He wants it we submit to Him. The gift is meant to empower us to be like Him right here right now.

 

[fzappa13]

When one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, they are saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). That is also when we are baptized by one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) and sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).

Okay, let's have a little closer look at the verses that you offered:


1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Notice the “if” word followed by a warning. Doesn't sound like an accomplished fact to me though it does address something of the method of salvation. Now lets look at the next verse you offered:


1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This passage says nothing of our salvation nor the timing of it. On to the third passage you offered:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Even when taken out of context, which this verse obviously is, there is still no direct indicator as to the timing of salvation but there is a very important clue. Once we believed, we were sealed by the spirit of promise which is a down payment of our inheritance to be received in full when we are redeemed. The question then becomes, when are we redeemed?

 

[heir]

Okay, let's have a little closer look at the verses that you offered:


1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Notice the “if” word followed by a warning. Doesn't sound like an accomplished fact to me though it does address something of the method of salvation.

Those who don't believe in the three elements of the gospel declared and preached by Paul would be believing in vain. An example would be the "some" who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead:

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Now lets look at the next verse you offered:


1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This passage says nothing of our salvation nor the timing of it. On to the third passage you offered:

It's a positional truth for all who are saved!

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Even when taken out of context, which this verse obviously is, there is still no direct indicator as to the timing of salvation but there is a very important clue. Once we believed, we were sealed by the spirit of promise which is a down payment of our inheritance to be received in full when we are redeemed. The question then becomes, when are we redeemed?

Again, a positional truth for those who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. As to your question, we are already have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace:

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We (the saved) look for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

for the redemption of our body

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

...

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Galatians 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

...

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

...

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

As to the timing of salvation:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Have you?

 

[oatmeal]

of your salvation!
Where is it found in the Bible?
What is it and how is one saved?

Romans 10:9-10 is the means to receive the gift of salvation.

That gift is also referred to as the gift of eternal life, Romans 6:23

the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38, John 7:38-39, Acts 11:17

Having eternal life is good news, having the power to be an effective witness for the lord Jesus Christ is good news, Acts 1:8

 

[heir]

Romans 10:9-10 is the means to receive the gift of salvation.

Nope. Romans 10:9-10 is neither the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, nor is it a formula for salvation. What you have there is the gospel of God. There is no mention of the why of the cross in Romans 10.

 

[oatmeal]

Nope. Romans 10:9-10 is neither the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, nor is it a formula for salvation. What you have there is the gospel of God. There is no mention of the why of the cross in Romans 10.

Wow, only I Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel of Christ?

Is those the only four verses you kept when you threw the rest of you Bible away?

You are short changing yourself

 

[fzappa13]

Those who don't believe in the three elements of the gospel declared and preached by Paul would be believing in vain. An example would be the "some" who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead:

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.


It's a positional truth for all who are saved!

This is incorrect. That is, unless you believe those who died before Christ's arrival and after His second are not to be saved. The reward of faith in a risen Christ is available only to those alive between His death and His return. Regardless, your argument still does not address the moment of salvation, only some sort of evidence of salvation via proper doctrine. It is important to remember that Jesus saves ... not doctrine.

... and BTW, you completely ducked my points concerning the passage YOU offered.

Again, a positional truth for those who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. As to your question, we are already have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace:

We (the saved) look for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

for the redemption of our body

You don't even see the verses you quote .... YOU ARE WAITING FOR THE RETURN OF CHRIST TO BE REDEEMED.

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

...again WE ARE AWAITING OUR REDEMPTION

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Galatians 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

...

I don't see what this has to do with the timing of our redemption.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

...

and when does this happen?

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

These are the first to be redeemed. The first fruits. There will be others later.

As to the timing of salvation:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

It doesn't say "are saved" it says "shall be saved".

Have you?

I don't know and neither do you. I know who does but He hasn't let that cat out of the bag just yet.

 

[fzappa13]

The good news? We shall be redeemed. When?

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[fzappa13]

You hang your hat on Paul. Hear what he says about salvation.

1 Cor 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Do these sound like the words of a man that thought his salvation was an accomplished fact?

 

[fzappa13]

You hang you hat on Paul. Hear his words.

2Tim 4: I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.


Only on his death bed did Paul claim the crown promised the faithful. A crown to be bestowed at Christ's return.

 

[oatmeal]

Heir, it must really be easy to read the good news when you have only four verses in your Bible.

Evidently, for you, everything that Jesus Christ did for God, mankind, you, is not good news?

Being healed of blindness is not good news?

Being raised from the dead is not good news?

Having the promise of the Father is not good news?

Having the gift of eternal life is not good news?

Having a living hope for the future is not good news?

After I Thessalonians 4:13-18, to ever be with the Lord is not good news?

Time for you to rethink what good news is. Might I suggest you read the rest of scripture and find out what good news is.

 

[heir]

The good news? We shall be redeemed. When?

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

That's not talking about you or me...Matthew 15:24 KJV!

 

[heir]

You hang your hat on Paul. Hear what he says about salvation.

1 Cor 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Do these sound like the words of a man that thought his salvation was an accomplished fact?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[heir]

Heir, it must really be easy to read the good news when you have only four verses in your Bible.

The gospel of Christ wherein we stand and by which we are saved is declared by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. The truth of the gospel that Paul received by revelation of Jesus Christ is described at length in great detail throughout Romans through Philemon. One need not have the knowledge of the truth found in Romans through Philemon to be saved (saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth is the order 1 Timothy 2:4 KJV), but trust the Lord believing the why of the cross (the cross is the power of God 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV).

 

[heir]

You hang you hat on Paul. Hear his words.

2Tim 4: I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.


Only on his death bed did Paul claim the crown promised the faithful. A crown to be bestowed at Christ's return.

Salvation is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV). A crown is a reward (1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, Colossians 3:24 KJV) .

 

[heir]

Regardless, your argument still does not address the moment of salvation, only some sort of evidence of salvation via proper doctrine. It is important to remember that Jesus saves ... not doctrine.

If the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (and it is Romans 1:16 KJV) and the gospel by which we are saved (and it is) it stands to reason that when one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing IT, they are saved (and they are 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV, Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV). And not once have I imp[lied that doctrine saved. God will have all men be saved, AND come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4 KJV), not come unto the knowledge of the truth to be saved!

... and BTW, you completely ducked my points concerning the passage YOU offered.

No, your goose is cooked by what saith the scripture.

You don't even see the verses you quote .... YOU ARE WAITING FOR THE RETURN OF CHRIST TO BE REDEEMED.

...again WE ARE AWAITING OUR REDEMPTION

ONLY the redemption of our Body as the believer today already has redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins (Ephesians 1:7 KJV). Do you even believe that?