Don't you know, musty, that "there can be no doubt whatsoever," that Jerry is right, and we are running and hiding, as Bullingerites?
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Don't you know, musty, that "there can be no doubt whatsoever," that Jerry is right, and we are running and hiding, as Bullingerites?
musterion
Well-known member
May well be but I want to know in what volume he got that spiritual body --> earthly body deal. That's a new one on me.
Right Divider
Body part
John said NOTHING about "meeting the Lord in the air".
The Lord's appearance is good for every believer no matter which of the callings they belong to.
The "glory to be revealed" according to Peter is the King of Israel sitting on the throne of His father David in the glorious kingdom.
You're just another Bible masher pretending to be a Mid-Acts dispensationalist.
BZZZT!!!!
Wrong.
Jesus Himself said He was coming back soon, or did you forget?
These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: [JESUS]“Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’[/JESUS] - Matthew 10:5-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew10:5-7&version=NKJV
[JESUS]“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.[/JESUS] - Matthew 10:21-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew10:21-23&version=NKJV
[JESUS]“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”[/JESUS] Then He spoke to them a parable: [JESUS]“Look at the fig tree, and all the trees.When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near.So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.[/JESUS] - Luke 21:25-33 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke21:25-33&version=NKJV
Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him, [JESUS]“If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”[/JESUS] Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, [JESUS]“If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”[/JESUS] This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. - John 21:20-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John21:20-25&version=NKJV
Which gets to my next question.
Because you're so busy diving deep into the details that you have no idea what the bigger picture looks like.
Go read Acts 1-7, paying specifically close attention to Acts 2:14-47, and then read Acts 5, Acts 9, and Acts 23, paying attention to the three different Annaniases (the name Annanias, btw, is only found three times in the Bible, all in Acts, and they represent Israel's state of belief at the time they are written about in Acts) and what they do.
Again, details details details. Always with the details, but never the big picture.
I can tell you right now that the scriptures you give are correct, but your interpretation is wrong, because you only focus on the details and not the big picture. Look at the big picture, and all the details will fall into place.
Earlier than even James, Brother John. Jesus Himself spoke of His imminent return (see my above post)
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, I actually quoited Scripture which demonstrates that the present dispensation began Mid Acts. You offered nothing. You're just another Bullingerite pretending to be a Mid-Acts dispensationalist.
He didn't have to because the only time when living saints will put on bodies just like His is at the rapture.
Besides that, they were waiting for an imminent appearance and the only imminent appearance of the Lord is the rapture.
Ther's only one imminent appearance but you so continue to forget that. You wouldn't want the Scriptures to get in your way, would you?
What is the crown of glory that never fades away?:
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed...And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet.5:1,4).
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The kingdom of heaven was imminent but it has been postponed and it will not be imminent again until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth (Lk.21:27-31).
I agree. I was going to post them, but focused om James/Revelation, since Jerry asserts that Hebrews, which is grouped in the "James" group, is written to members of the boc. I hope to get Jerry to give us, as you say, "the big picture," and tell us if James, Revelation, is also written to members of the boc, like he says Hebrews is, and, if not, why not.
No, there can be no doubt whatsoever, we see, it is clear, that you follow what others say the scriptures say, like sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair,.............................................................................................................................................not the scriptures themselves, and ignore what sir Paul says in Romans-Philemon, and are assassinating the messenger, and offer nothing, as you're just another Acts 2 Walvoord/Ironside-ite pretending to be a Mid-Acts dispensationalist.
How did I do?
Irrelevant, as you argued the return was never revealed to be imminent, until Paul told us.The realization of kingdom of heaven upon the earth, is contingent upon "the second time"(Acts 7:13 KJV, Hebrews 9:28 KJV)occurring-the second coming, the return. And Hebrews talks of the second time, not the rapture/seizure by force.
musterion
Well-known member
He won't touch that.
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Thanks, musty. First time I noticed-you reference "Terence McLean." I always enjoyed his expounding, from a 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV biblical interpretation framework, as I do Richard Jordan's. Any reflections on why McLean and/or Jordan, continually beat each other up? Puzzles me.Curious.
musterion
Well-known member
I have no access to Jordan so I don't know what he says about McLean, but McLean has problems with several things Jordan teaches including the racial curse and I think some King James issues.
Read and respond to the rest of my post please, otherwise it looks like you're ignoring the big picture.
Fascinating, Captain.....
Right Divider
Body part
Jerry, you're lying again.
Why are you STILL trying to portray me as saying that there are "two" imminent returns? You're very dishonest Jerry.
Christ's return will serve TWO purposes in a SINGLE return. Israel's destiny is a kingdom on the earth, the body of Christ's is not.
The twelve apostle will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. They will be kings and priests. Kings wear crowns.
Rev 1:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
One of the twelve apostles of the Lamb speaking there.Rev 5:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed, Jordan has some downright blasphemous teachings on the "Christ emptied Himself" topic.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Pastor Johnson wrote:
The gospel of the kingdom is the good news that Israel’s Davidic earthly prophesied literal kingdom is at hand (Mark 1:14). Paul was not sent to preach that message.
That's the fraud of D'ism. It is not true. This is all finally clarified in the fact that the royal kingdom power that was conferred in Acts 1 was the Spirit's work for the mission of God in ch 2. Those believers were the 'Israel' that the OT and Christ were speaking of all along.
The gospel of the kingdom is the good news that Israel’s Davidic earthly prophesied literal kingdom is at hand (Mark 1:14). Paul was not sent to preach that message.
That's the fraud of D'ism. It is not true. This is all finally clarified in the fact that the royal kingdom power that was conferred in Acts 1 was the Spirit's work for the mission of God in ch 2. Those believers were the 'Israel' that the OT and Christ were speaking of all along.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The appearance of the Lord Jesus which is imminent has nothing to do with Him setting up the earthly kingdom. The imminent appearance can happen at any moment but the Lord Jesus' return to set up the kingdom cannot happen until certain things happen first, such as the setting up of the abomination of desolation in the holy place.
The following is another verse from the Hebrew epistles which also speaks of an imminent coming of the Lord:
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).
Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).
If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly looking for that appearance:
apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly " (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).
According to your confused ideas the appearance of the Lord Jesus which those who received the book of Hebrews were eagerly awaiting is the following one:
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place...For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be...and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Mt.24:15,21,30).
It is evident that those who received the book of Hebrews would not be looking for the Lord "expectantly" if the Lord's appearance spoken of at Hebrews 9:28 is one which must be preceded by the setting up of the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation. They would not be "expecting" Him to appear until those events had already happened so it is impossible that they would be "looking" for Him to appear and it would also be impossible for them to be "waiting expectantly" for His appearance if the appearance in view is the one described at Matthew 24:30.
The only coming of the Lord which they would be looking for expectantly is the one described by Paul here:
"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for (apekdechomai) the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself" (Phil.3:20-21).
The folks at StudyLight.org have the following to say about the Greek word apekdechomai:
"The word occurs in Philippians 3:20 where it is translated 'look for' (KJV) or 'eagerly wait' (NKJV, NASB), indicating the intense feeling of imminency characteristic of those in the first century who were actively watching for the coming of the Lord from glory."
That is exactly the same Greek word used by the author of Hebrews in the verse under discussion:
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).
The Greek word apekdechomai is used six times in the NT (Ro.8:23,25, 1 Cor.1:7, Gal.5:5, Phil.3:20, Heb.9:28) and in every single instance it is used in connection with the Lord Jesus' coming at the rapture. Common sense dictates that the author of Hebrews would not be urging anyone to be looking for the appearance of the Lord Jesus with an attitude of eager expectancy unless that appearance could happen at any moment.