Renounce Your Worthless Religion and Trust in Christ Alone

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
nikolai_42 said:
I beg to differ.

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:28-29

Mr. Pate has made a big deal about salvation being without works and simply being about believing Jesus. Most would agree with that (Ephesians 2:8-9, for example). He has also made it a point to say your salvation in your hands and your hands alone. He believes so strongly in the sinful nature of man that even after salvation man is still a wretched sinner in his eyes. So this utterly sinful being has to work up the faith to believe (yet not work) because he is left to himself to be reconciled to Christ. So if it is not a work to believe, how does he reckon with John 6:29?
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It is the work of God to make salvation available to everyone, so that all can enter in by faith.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that anyone can do to save themselves. The work of salvation has already been done by Jesus Christ. All that we are called to do is believe it and accept it by faith. Faith is not a work. It is a mental ascension to a truth. Everyone has the ability to believe and have faith.
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Pateism teaches salvation by works of law.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that anyone can do to save themselves. The work of salvation has already been done by Jesus Christ. All that we are called to do is believe it and accept it by faith. Faith is not a work. It is a mental ascension to a truth. Everyone has the ability to believe and have faith.
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Men in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:7-8! They don't have the ability to please God with Faith.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Even if faith and believing are works, they are not works that save. Jesus is the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2. All that our faith does is makes the Gospel ours.
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But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:8-10

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:30-31

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

You said that works done without the Holy Spirit are worthless. This work of believing is inextricably tied to salvation. You have said that you and you alone are responsible for your salvation - therefore, you and you alone must be responsible for your faith. Jesus made it clear that believing is a work.

So which is it? Is believing only effectual if of the Holy Spirit or is it of you and you alone?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
nikolai_42 said:
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:8-10

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:30-31

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

You said that works done without the Holy Spirit are worthless. This work of believing is inextricably tied to salvation. You have said that you and you alone are responsible for your salvation - therefore, you and you alone must be responsible for your faith. Jesus made it clear that believing is a work.

So which is it? Is believing only effectual if of the Holy Spirit or is it of you and you alone?
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Faith and the Holy Spirit are only given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

"So then Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
That's not what Rom 8:7-8 states. They can't believe because they are carnal and in the flesh as all men are by nature.
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Everyone is born a sinner. Only those that hear and believe the Gospel will be saved.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
 
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clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Everyone is born a sinner. Only those that hear and believe the Gospel will be saved.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
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Even hearing takes work...

Is work

And add to that belief?

It remains a yoke...His is light and easy but a yoke
 
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clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
Everyone is born a sinner. Only those that hear and believe the Gospel will be saved.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
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Satan was not born a sinner...

Hears the the word, believes and has faith...

Only thing differing is what?

his works...

By their fruits...
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
Satan was not born a sinner...

Hears the the word, believes and has faith...

Only thing differing is what?

his works...

By their fruits...
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Your works count for nothing when it comes to your salvation.

"Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us" Titus 3:5.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
clefty said:
What is judged on judgment day? Your "yes Lord" or your resulting works...
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In the judgment the only ones that will be saved are those that have faith in Christ and his Gospel.

They will be identified by the Holy Spirit that was given to them when they heard and believed the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
 
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clefty

New member
Robert Pate said:
In the judgment the only ones that will be saved are those that have faith in Christ and his Gospel.

They will be identified by the Holy Spirit that was given to them when they heard and believed the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
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And just how will they be identified? By their works...Spirit led...to live and love AS He did...
 
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