Renounce Your Worthless Religion and Trust in Christ Alone

[Robert Pate]

There was no religion in the early church. What there was, was Judaizers. A Judaizer is someone that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses. These people were a hinderance to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul was in conflict with them continually, they caused problems in the church because they did not believe that salvation was by grace through faith without the works of the law. James was a Judaizer, he wanted to circumcise Gentile believers according to the law of Moses, Acts chapter 15. Paul wanted no part of it.

If you have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, his doing and his dying. Then why do you need a religion? How can a religion add anything to what God has already done in Jesus Christ?

"And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and has given unto us the ministry of reconciliation. God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

If it is Jesus that makes us acceptable to God, then why do you need a religion? If it is Jesus that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5, then how can you add anything to that? I heard that some Catholics go to mass everyday. Do they believe that pleases God? I hardly think so. Religion is not an evidence of faith. Religion is the evidence of the absence of faith. The more religion the less faith.

If you can't believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and has reconciled us and the world unto God. Then you should be as religious as you possibly can, not that religion will save you, but its a better life than being a whoremonger or a rabblerouser.

Christianity is not a works religion, it is a faith religion. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Running down to the Catholic church everyday to take mass is not of faith, it is of works, the works of the law. Any religious thing that we do is a work of the law. Paul wrote, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Calvinism is not of faith. Calvinist have misdirected faith, instead of faith in Christ and his Gospel they have faith in the doctrine of Calvinism. If you say anything about John Calvin, who is their idle, they become very upset. You can say what you want to about God, or Jesus Christ, but don't blasphemy John Calvin.

There are some, but not many, that are living by faith and not religion. Maybe 10% of those on TOL. I can spot them in a minute. They quote scripture and stand in defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and are like myself anti-religious and pro Gospel.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

There was no religion in the early church.

Hi Robert.

About your statement above...maybe there was maybe there wasn't. I think it depends on what you mean by "religion".

We have spoken about this before but I don't remember exactly so would you please tell me what you mean by "religion"? Thanks.

James was a Judaizer, he wanted to circumcise Gentile believers according to the law of Moses, Acts chapter 15. Paul wanted no part of it.

I agree with you that there was much conflict with the Judaizers.

How would you explain Paul's actions in Acts 16:3? He had Timothy circumcised there. That's kindof interesting, don't you think?

Christianity is not a works religion, it is a faith religion.

Notice that you just contradicted yourself big time.

In your first sentence of this post you said, "There was no religion in the early Church."

Now you just said, "Christianity....is a faith religion."

Well, which is it? How can Christianity exist as a faith religion if there is no religion?

If you say anything about John Calvin, who is their idle, they become very upset. You can say what you want to about God, or Jesus Christ, but don't blasphemy John Calvin.

I am not a Calvinist. And I think your statements above are ridiculous.

There are some, but not many, that are living by faith and not religion.

And you can tell that about someone just by reading what they write? Wow. If that were true, I would be impressed.

Maybe 10% of those on TOL.

Stop it. You are just making things up now.

I can spot them in a minute. They quote scripture and stand in defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and are like myself anti-religious and pro Gospel.

So I'm curious...you are "anti-religious" but at the same time call Christianity a "faith religion."

How can both be true?

Are you anti-Christianity then because it is (in your own words) a "religion"?

Peace.

 

[patrick jane]

Don't be ridiculous Bard

 

[jamie]

How would you explain Paul's actions in Acts 16:3? He had Timothy circumcised there. That's kindof interesting, don't you think?

Paul wanted Timothy to have credibility with Jews. Jews had little or no respect for Gentiles. Gentiles could not go as far as the court of women at the Temple.

 

[Crucible]

Calvinism is Reformed Christianity which, while you choose to rant on about what is and isn't, is something you owe a lot to, especially concerning Faith Alone and Imputed Righteousness which the Reformists patented.

There are over 20,000 sects of Christianity who all state the same broken record as Robert Pate here plays, and they all disagree with each other theologically.
It just goes to show the plague of heresy for what it is- it transfigured America into a melting pot of unorthodox beliefs as all the dissidents sailed over here, and it's remained to this day multiplying everywhere.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Don't be ridiculous Bard

Don't think I am being so.

Robert claimed there was no religion in the first century and then claimed that Christianity is a faith religion.

Seems very contradictory to me.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Paul wanted Timothy to have credibility with Jews. Jews had little or no respect for Gentiles. Gentiles could not go as far as the court of women at the Temple.

Hey Jamie,

So sometimes it is good to have no part of circumcision (like with Jewish Christians) but other times it is good to do so so that someone can have credibility (like with the Jewish people).

Ok. I can see that, I guess.

Thanks.

 

[jamie]

So sometimes it is good to have no part of circumcision (like with Jewish Christians) but other times it is good to do so so that someone can have credibility (like with the Jewish people).

Ok. I can see that, I guess.

The problem was that Timothy's mother was Jewish but his father was a Gentile and probably forbid eighth day circumcision.

Paul wanted Timothy to be able to speak in synagogues.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The problem was that Timothy's mother was Jewish but his father was a Gentile and probably forbid eighth day circumcision.

Paul wanted Timothy to be able to speak in synagogues.

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks for the info.

 

[SimpleMan77]

If you really trust Christ you'll obey Him.

When my kids were 2, I could stand them on anything and say "jump". They trusted me, so they obeyed.

Jesus has never let me down, so I'll obey everything he tells me through His word!!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[marhig]

If you really trust Christ you'll obey Him.

When my kids were 2, I could stand them on anything and say "jump". They trusted me, so they obeyed.

Jesus has never let me down, so I'll obey everything he tells me through His word!!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Yes, and that's why Jesus taught that we are to become as a little child. Because a young child is full of innocence and love, and the only thing they are interested in is being with their parents and being loved and fed. They have no interest in the worldly things, in lusts of the flesh etc. And once we become as a little child, our main interest will be God, and in pleasing and obeying him and Christ before anything else, being loved by him and loving others through him and being washed in the word and fed the bread of life daily.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Don't think I am being so.

Robert claimed there was no religion in the first century and then claimed that Christianity is a faith religion.

Seems very contradictory to me.

It is indeed. Then again, Robert is an island unto himself.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...on-or-Perish&p=4845408&viewfull=1#post4845408

AMR

 

[chair]

Got to hand it to Mr. Pate. For sheer pig-headed stubbornness. There must be hundreds of threads like this by now.

Great going, Pate!

When you are done (after a thousand threads?), try reading the whole Bible. Carefully. Then try thinking.

Take care, and good health to you and yours.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hi Robert.

About your statement above...maybe there was maybe there wasn't. I think it depends on what you mean by "religion".

We have spoken about this before but I don't remember exactly so would you please tell me what you mean by "religion"? Thanks.



I agree with you that there was much conflict with the Judaizers.

How would you explain Paul's actions in Acts 16:3? He had Timothy circumcised there. That's kindof interesting, don't you think?



Notice that you just contradicted yourself big time.

In your first sentence of this post you said, "There was no religion in the early Church."

Now you just said, "Christianity....is a faith religion."

Well, which is it? How can Christianity exist as a faith religion if there is no religion?



I am not a Calvinist. And I think your statements above are ridiculous.



And you can tell that about someone just by reading what they write? Wow. If that were true, I would be impressed.



Stop it. You are just making things up now.



So I'm curious...you are "anti-religious" but at the same time call Christianity a "faith religion."

How can both be true?

Are you anti-Christianity then because it is (in your own words) a "religion"?

Peace.

Christianity is not really a religion, even though I referred to it as a religion. What should I call it?

Those who live by faith are not religious, even though they may appear to be. This is why Paul said, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. The religious live by rules, laws and religion.

Paul had Timothy circumcised not for the sake of being religious, but so that he would fit in with the Jews.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, who is a sinner. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. Those who have faith are preoccupied with Christ and his Gospel.

I have no trouble detecting those who are "In Christ" on this forum. I try the Spirits to see if they be of God, 1 John 4:1.

Not many are going to be saved. Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Many think that they have found it, but what they have really found is religion.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Christianity is not really a religion, even though I referred to it as a religion. What should I call it?

Well, call it what it is. What is it?

Those who live by faith are not religious, even though they may appear to be.

So non-religious people can appear to be religious and religious people will appear to be religious as well. So we can't really know by looking at someone who is religious and who isn't according to your definition.

This is why Paul said, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. The religious live by rules, laws and religion.

You seem to be saying that there is a rule that the just live by faith in Christ and His Gospel.
And if someone doesn't follow that rule, then they are merely religious folks following rules.

RELIGION: Man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, who is a sinner.

Can you clarify what you mean by that? I might or might not agree with that definition but I'm not sure what you mean by it.

God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners.

Is this a statement that can be supported by scripture?

Does the bible say this somewhere?

If it does, I will believe it.

If it doesn't...why should I believe it?

Those who have faith are preoccupied with Christ and his Gospel.

If this statement is true, it describes the vast majority of all Christians that I know of: Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, Catholics, non-denominational Christians, to name a few. My experience has been that the vast majority of Christians are sincerely concerned with knowing, loving, and serving Jesus Christ.

I have no trouble detecting those who are "In Christ" on this forum. I try the Spirits to see if they be of God, 1 John 4:1.

Well, you certainly are not lacking any confidence in yourself. But being fallible, you could be wrong at times. Right?

Not many are going to be saved. Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Many think that they have found it, but what they have really found is religion.

So I'm curious. If Christianity isn't a religion...what is it?

Peace.

 

[jamie]

Christianity is not really a religion, even though I referred to it as a religion. What should I call it?

Since Christianity has a High Priest and a priesthood it should be acknowledged as a religion.

Throughout the long and varied history of religion, the priesthood has been the official institution that has mediated and maintained a state of equilibrium between the sacred and the profane aspects of human society and that has exercised a stabilizing influence on social structures and on cultic organizations. The term priest is derived etymologically from the Greek word presbyteros (“elder”), of which it is a contraction, and it is equated with the Latin word sacerdos (the Roman officiant at the sacrifices and sacred rites).​

(https://www.britannica.com/topic/priesthood)

 

[Robert Pate]

Since Christianity has a High Priest and a priesthood it should be acknowledged as a religion.

Throughout the long and varied history of religion, the priesthood has been the official institution that has mediated and maintained a state of equilibrium between the sacred and the profane aspects of human society and that has exercised a stabilizing influence on social structures and on cultic organizations. The term priest is derived etymologically from the Greek word presbyteros (“elder”), of which it is a contraction, and it is equated with the Latin word sacerdos (the Roman officiant at the sacrifices and sacred rites).​

(https://www.britannica.com/topic/priesthood)

The only priest in Christianity is Jesus Christ, Hebrews 7:26-28.

 

[jamie]

The only priest in Christianity is Jesus Christ, Hebrews 7:26-28.

As High Priest (a comparative term) Christ works through humans just as the Father worked through him.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The only priest in Christianity is Jesus Christ, Hebrews 7:26-28.

Your statement is false, Robert. The verse you cited doesn't say that.

Jesus Christ is the only High Priest...but not the only priest. He allows His followers to share in His priesthood. That is called the priesthood of all believers or universal priesthood.

We can see reference to this royal priesthood in 1 Peter 2:5 and 1 Peter 2:9.

By the way, what do you think Christianity is if it isn't a religion?

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your statement is false, Robert. The verse you cited doesn't say that.

Jesus Christ is the only High Priest...but not the only priest. He allows His followers to share in His priesthood. That is called the priesthood of all believers or universal priesthood.

We can see reference to this royal priesthood in 1 Peter 2:5 and 1 Peter 2:9.

By the way, what do you think Christianity is if it isn't a religion?

Peace.

The priesthood of men, which is religion, "For the law (religion) makes men high priest which have infirmities" Hebrews 7:28.

Christianity is not a religion. It is not about works, its about faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Religion is full of priest with infirmities, because they are sinners. Look at the Catholic church and its priesthood. Need I say anymore?