Do you have Scripture that speaks specifically about Calvinism Nangster?
Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation
- Thread starter Sonnet
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Do you have Scripture that speaks specifically about Calvinism Nangster?
Calvinists, like Nangster believe that one must first be "regenerated" and then receive saving faith. They place the cart before the horse. They're very confused and believe that humanity has no free will of its own, even though the Bible proves otherwise.
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Sorry but, you are again, wrong. It comes from those who desire to know God in an intimate way the thinking of which you have no means to process.
PneumaPsucheSoma
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Someone blaming Calvinism for losing their faith is like someone blaming the wind for carrying away their balloon because it wasn't tied to their wrist.
One doesn't have to be a Calvinist to be saved. The systematic theology much better explains the functionality of God and salvation, but Arminians aren't automatically lost without Christ.
The REPORT (akoe - noun, the thing heard). It's all about the REPORT. It's either the Rhema of God or it's not. Substituting a doctrinal summary for God's Rhema may or may not have salvific merit.
One doesn't have to be a Calvinist to be saved. The systematic theology much better explains the functionality of God and salvation, but Arminians aren't automatically lost without Christ.
The REPORT (akoe - noun, the thing heard). It's all about the REPORT. It's either the Rhema of God or it's not. Substituting a doctrinal summary for God's Rhema may or may not have salvific merit.
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How would you know and what part of your conceit makes you believe Arminians are lost at all??
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Nang
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Absolutely!
Any theology is only as good as the proposition it is founded upon, and Calvinistic theology is founded upon the revealed purposes and promises of God.
It is the word of God alone, that saves. The Truth of God alone has the power to save. Faith in Jesus Christ and His testimony alone justifies the sinner. His shed blood alone pardons sin.
PneumaPsucheSoma
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You're so trigger-happy, falsely accusational, and reactionary that you can't see the simple statement of fact that Arminians who ARE lost aren't lost because they're Arminian (just as Calvinists who ARE lost aren't lost because they're Calvinists).
You need help. Your heretical Christology has driven you mad.
I always laugh when people try to claim Calvin murdered Servetus which is a genetic fallacy. Let's say Calvin really did though.
#1. If infact Calvin did do this heinous sin, that doesn't mean that the one opposing Calvinism has an argument.
#2. You don't believe Calvinism because he was a murderer yet love and believe the Psalms and at least half of the epistles, yet the Psalms were written by David who was a murderer, and by Paul who was a murderer before God came to him? A little bit of hypocrisy there.
#3 We have no idea if Calvin repented, but even if he didn't that doesn't make what he taught, which also what the Bible taught and teaches, less true.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Calvin wasn't a murderer. It was an issue of state religion relative to law and punishment. In regards to Servetus (whom I greatly admire, BTW), Calvin argued vehemently for at least a merciful means of death for him. He spent much time and effort doing so, to the potential endangerment of his own life.
Calvin wasn't the driving governmental force in that day. He was subject to it.
Eagles Wings
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I know I was loony-tunes before learning of Monergism, and declining the other two "isms" as taught by Arminius and Pelagius.
Christology is fascinating, and where I find the Confessions and Creeds so helpful.
Would like to know what sources you purpose for further study in Christology.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
I am afraid I may have some trouble tracking this, since there is still a direct connection back to my first response (page 5) to your OP as well as this followup...and the fact that you have responded in 2 posts. The bottom line is that my initial response to your OP is simply based on the fact that there is a specific elect people (and what that means).
Is Israel elect or not? That's what my point will ultimately lead to. Regardless of (for the purposes of approaching the post) Israel is racial Israel, spiritual Israel - or both - the question boils down to whether or not there are a group of individuals that God has elected without consulting them first. Blindness doesn't change anything - in fact it only strengthens the election because it only emphasizes the basis upon which these people are elected (God alone and His will).
What does Paul say in Romans 11? He quotes Elijah as complaining to God that he is the only one remaining faithful to Him. God's response (Romans 11:4) is that He has reserved to Himself seven thousand that have not bowed the knee to Ba'al. What comparison does Paul make with the (then) current day Israelites :
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.Romans 11:5-8
And then...
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Romans 11:11
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Romans 11:15
So some are believing, some are not. And the thought arises that if (as Paul says) their falling away is salvation to the Gentiles, then the only thing left to say is that we can blame it only on their unbelief. Well...in a sense, yes. But what does Paul also say :
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Romans 11:19-23
This, then, is the backdrop to...
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Romans 11:24-29
It isn't Paul saying "This is all God's doing and no one had anything to do with it all but God"...but neither is he merely saying "IF Israel believes again, they will be restored". Rather, he is showing how God is working in Israel - His people - to accomplish His will and do what He will. In the end, the restoration of Israel is a sure thing because God has reserved for Himself...God is going to take away ungodliness (from Jacob...that is the natural, fleshly man who God MADE Israel) and fulfill HIS covenant. And, as Paul says, this is a sure thing because God does not change His mind concerning gifts and callings.
So Israel...God's elect...will be saved. And this is not just a general term for "all those that believe" because Paul speaks specifically to those that fell away in unbelief as being blinded (but still elect) and being restored again. The undergirding to all of this is God's will. Not man's unbelief (which Paul makes clear is not a hurdle for God). Note also that Paul doesn't shy away from (even in the context of saying "All Israel shall be saved") saying he will do everything he can to "provoke to emulation" those who are his brethren according to the flesh. He wants to get them riled up - wake them up to how far they have fallen that they might realize what God is doing and return. But that doesn't interfere (just like Israel's unbelief itself doesn't interfere) with God's calling. Like Paul, we don't rest on election and say "If I'm elect, I'm elect and there's nothing I can do about it" since that is not indicative of the attitude one has when saved of God - not indicative of the Spirit of God at work in that man. Like Paul, we act on what we know and what we are given. That was the purpose of my followup and the citing of numerous examples where we have "God might..." and even one instance where God's declaration through Isaiah was forestalled. We don't act on God's knowledge - we act on our own understanding and knowledge. And since even Jesus Christ didn't know for certain if there was an alternative to the cross, but sought the Father about it ("If it be possible, let this cup pass from me : nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."), we can hardly expect to have perfect understanding of the Father's will. So because of that, I believe election and predestination to be true (Romans 8:29, Romans 9:11, I Thessalonians 1:4, I Peter 1:2 - but I also fully agree with the requirement that we be found faithful (Matt 10:22, I Cor 4:2, Rev 2:10 etc...). That doesn't destroy predestination or election. If so, that would mean man's unfaithfulness could thwart God's plan. And of course, when man tries to reconcile that, he ends up saying "God knew" instead of "God did" from eternity past. Which clearly contradicts scriptures like Acts 15:18 and Isaiah 46:10....
Our confidence going forward (in faith) is in God's ability, not our faithfulness.
Eagles Wings
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@nikolai - excellent post (#231) and one which I've printed out to study.
God's Truth
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How sad that you are getting lost in the teachings of Calvinism and Lutheranism.
Study God's Word without the influence of other men.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Is Israel elect?
Eagles Wings
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From reading other posts of yours, I surmise that this is not genuine concern.
From a foundational point, you and I do not agree on Christology.
As I posted in another thread, please consider reading one of the historic Creeds of the Christian Church to get a clear understanding of what early Christians believed about Christ and the Triune God, as they support the teaching of Scripture.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Feel free to poke all the holes in it you can! I'm still learning...
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Imagine being an extreme Kenoticist like CR, and denying the contiguous eternal and uncreated divinity of our Lord... in addition to the binaries of various opposing doctrines.
There's no substitute for a lifetime unceasing study of lexicography, and it begins with Rhema and Logos. I learned much from copiously reading Basil and other Patristics. Martin Luther is good, but Erasmus may be even better for Christology.
Some of the few available Eastern Orthodox books are very good. The Easterns aren't prolific writers/publishers, but when there are theological works they're significant. "The Person in the Orthodox Tradition" is a great source in most ways.
The vast majority of my understanding is from relentless prayerful and fasting pursuit of lexicography regarding Logos. Our Lord is the eternal uncreated Logos, not "just" the Son (and that's not a diminution of the Son, but for clarity).
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:loser:
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"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace".
Ephesians 2:15 (KJV)
Does this happen before or after, election selection?
Ephesians 2:15 (KJV)
Does this happen before or after, election selection?
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You lie in a consistent manner. That makes you a liar in anyones estimation. Why not stop especially when there is no substance in what you what you purport me to be?