ECT OSAS Col 3:3

[DAN P]

Actually the Greek word κρύπτω (kryptō) here, connotes; to lay up in store
here in Col 3:3, but I'm not getting why you use it to try and support OSAS, as it doesn't. The metaphorical use of made alive here only refers to the metaphysical, so I'm at a loss to understand what you are trying to say here?

Hi , and you are LOST by my post ?

#1 , Ye are DEAD , as Rom 6:4 and Crucified with Christ as in Gal 2:20 !!

#2 , Ye are dead is in the s Aorist Tense that happens at the time of salvation , and the nActive Voice , means that it it and action by God and not you !

#3 , Is Hid / KRYPTO is in the Greek Perfect Tense and means that we are Hid in Christ and the Passive Voice and means that God id doing the action of Hidding us in Christ and the Perfect Tense means we are ALWAYS secure " in Christ " if you understand the phrase " in Christ " and only explained by Paul !!

dan p

 

[StanJ]

Hi , and you are LOST by my post ?

#1 , Ye are DEAD , as Rom 6:4 and Crucified with Christ as in Gal 2:20 !!

#2 , Ye are dead is in the s Aorist Tense that happens at the time of salvation , and the nActive Voice , means that it it and action by God and not you !

#3 , Is Hid / KRYPTO is in the Greek Perfect Tense and means that we are Hid in Christ and the Passive Voice and means that God id doing the action of Hidding us in Christ and the Perfect Tense means we are ALWAYS secure " in Christ " if you understand the phrase " in Christ " and only explained by Paul !!

dan p

Yes I am, and this doesn't help much. HOW does this deal with OSAS?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A covenant is a promise and yes that promise is the gift of Jesus. He was promised in both the OC and NC

That is correct. Paul himself speaks of the covenants of PROMISE.

 

[DAN P]

Yes I am, and this doesn't help much. HOW does this deal with OSAS?

Hi and you will to study GAL 3:28 WHERE the Greek word "ARE / ESTE " is in the Present Tense , which means we are ALWAYS " in Christ " as the Present Tense means CONTINUOUS action in the Present time which means we are ALWAYS IN CHRIST or OSAS !!

dan p

 

[StanJ]

Hi and you will to study GAL 3:28 WHERE the Greek word "ARE / ESTE " is in the Present Tense , which means we are ALWAYS " in Christ " as the Present Tense means CONTINUOUS action in the Present time which means we are ALWAYS IN CHRIST or OSAS !!
dan p

The Greek word doesn't mean anything more than it's equivalent word in English. They both mean to BE or EXIST. I'm not really seeing the point you are trying make. We ARE in Christ until we AREN'T. That has nothing to do with OSAS.

OSAS, or Eternal Security as some called it, is saying once you are saved you will never NOT be saved, and the Bible teaches that is not so.

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:36-39 shows we have to endure and persevere in order to realize the benefit of salvation.

 

[jamie]

Jesus said to one of his seven symbolic congregations that because they were lukewarm and neither hot nor cold that he would vomit them out of his mouth.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:36-39 shows we have to endure and persevere in order to realize the benefit of salvation.

I think that you are misunderstanding those verses. After all, later in the same epistle the author says:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).​

 

[DAN P]

The Greek word doesn't mean anything more than it's equivalent word in English. They both mean to BE or EXIST. I'm not really seeing the point you are trying make. We ARE in Christ until we AREN'T. That has nothing to do with OSAS.

OSAS, or Eternal Security as some called it, is saying once you are saved you will never NOT be saved, and the Bible teaches that is not so.

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:36-39 shows we have to endure and persevere in order to realize the benefit of salvation.

Hi and I know that I am correct , NOR have you proven it wrong , by saying I do not understand it , is MOOT and just BLOVIATING !!

sO , EXPLAIN WHAT hEB 6:4-6 and Heb 10:36-39 mean !!:banana::banana:

dan p

 

[StanJ]

I think that you are misunderstanding those verses. After all, later in the same epistle the author says:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).
​

As you seem to be dealing with Heb 10:36-39, the warning Luke gave, was not uncalled for. People were shrinking away from their initial confession of belief. Luke was warning them about that.
v 10 states; And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Jesus died ONCE, for ALL sin.
v14 states; For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
They are being made holy, which only culminates when one dies. This is clarified later when Luke states in this chapter that we should NOT shrink back. This implicitly affirms that some do shrink back, thus the teaching in v32-39

 

[StanJ]

Hi and I know that I am correct , NOR have you proven it wrong , by saying I do not understand it , is MOOT and just BLOVIATING !!
sO , EXPLAIN WHAT hEB 6:4-6 and Heb 10:36-39 mean !!
dan p

If one cannot receive one cannot learn. If you are so inflexible in your personal view of this then there is no reason to discuss ANYTHING with you. Feel free to continue in your ignorance...I'm sure that some of those who Luke was addressing in Heb 10 also said he was full of it.

If you are smart enough to make these kind of assertions, you should be smart enough to read and understand what the scriptures teach that I quoted. Given this type of supercilious response that I received from you in reply, I doubt anything will convince you of your error.

 

[glorydaz]

The Greek word doesn't mean anything more than it's equivalent word in English. They both mean to BE or EXIST. I'm not really seeing the point you are trying make. We ARE in Christ until we AREN'T. That has nothing to do with OSAS.

OSAS, or Eternal Security as some called it, is saying once you are saved you will never NOT be saved, and the Bible teaches that is not so.

Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:36-39 shows we have to endure and persevere in order to realize the benefit of salvation.

So your claim is that we are not sealed by the Holy Ghost unto the day of redemption? Eph. 4:30KJV That we are not new creatures created in Christ Jesus? 2 Cor. 5:17KJV That we are not free from the law of sin and death? Romans 8:2KJV That there will be condemnation for those in Christ Jesus? Romans 8:1KJV That we can be uncrucified and unraised from the dead and eternal does not mean eternal?

It would make more sense for you to recognize that your understanding of Hebrews is off rather than throw out all the promises given to the body of Christ.

 

[DAN P]

If one cannot receive one cannot learn. If you are so inflexible in your personal view of this then there is no reason to discuss ANYTHING with you. Feel free to continue in your ignorance...I'm sure that some of those who Luke was addressing in Heb 10 also said he was full of it.

If you are smart enough to make these kind of assertions, you should be smart enough to read and understand what the scriptures teach that I quoted. Given this type of supercilious response that I received from you in reply, I doubt anything will convince you of your error.

Hi and Jerry is right , that your comments about Heb 10:14 are wrong !!

Anyone should be able to connect Heb 10:14 with John 19:30 , where Jesus says " it is finished " with His One death in Heb 10:14 !

I will explain to you on Wednesday and saved you !!

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

v14 states; For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
They are being made holy, which only culminates when one dies. This is clarified later when Luke states in this chapter that we should NOT shrink back. This implicitly affirms that some do shrink back, thus the teaching in v32-39

So you really think we'll be holy by the time we die? I wonder how many people will be in heaven if that's the criteria, :think:

 

[StanJ]

So you really think we'll be holy by the time we die? I wonder how many people will be in heaven if that's the criteria,

No, that was my point, we will only be Holy ( and wholly) when we are raised upon Jesus' return. Our walk is a lifetime but we only receive Eternal Life when Jesus returns.

 

[DAN P]

As you seem to be dealing with Heb 10:36-39, the warning Luke gave, was not uncalled for. People were shrinking away from their initial confession of belief. Luke was warning them about that.
v 10 states; And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Jesus died ONCE, for ALL sin.
v14 states; For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
They are being made holy, which only culminates when one dies. This is clarified later when Luke states in this chapter that we should NOT shrink back. This implicitly affirms that some do shrink back, thus the teaching in v32-39

Hi and heb 10:14 reads , For by ONE offering He has PERFECTED FOREVER those who are being Sanctified !!


#1, The verb " He has perfected /TELEIOO " is in thre Greek Perfect Tense Active Voice and Indicative Mood .

#2 , This means that when saved , the Aorist Tense , they are ALWAYS in the Present Tense , so OSAS .

#3 , The Passive Voice then means that it is God that is doing the PERFECTION >

#4 , The Indicative Mood means that it is a FACT !


#5 The verb " them that are sanctified /HAGIAZO or made HOLY , is in the Greek Present Tense and are ALWAYS being MADE Holy by the Passive Voice and is an action by God !!


dan p

 

[StanJ]

So your claim is that we are not sealed by the Holy Ghost unto the day of redemption? Eph. 4:30KJV That we are not new creatures created in Christ Jesus? 2 Cor. 5:17KJV That we are not free from the law of sin and death? Romans 8:2KJV That there will be condemnation for those in Christ Jesus? Romans 8:1KJV That we can be uncrucified and unraised from the dead and eternal does not mean eternal?

It would make more sense for you to recognize that your understanding of Hebrews is off rather than throw out all the promises given to the body of Christ.

I guess it depends on what you think Eph 4:30 (NIV) is saying. Jesus redeemed us all when He died and shed His blood, but here Paul is talking about when we fully realize that redemption by actually receiving eternal life.
In 2 Cor 5:17 (NIV), Paul is talking about the new creation of the New Covenant.
We are not literally made a new creature, but come into the new creation of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Yes, in Christ we are set free from the LAW which brings sin and death, but we still sin and die.
We indeed are not condemned if we are IN Jesus. I don't know what you are referring to by uncrucified or unraised?

I'm pretty sure my understanding of Hebrews is OK, but as you didn't quote any Hebrews here, what is your point?

 

[StanJ]

Hi and Jerry is right , that your comments about Heb 10:14 are wrong !!

Anyone should be able to connect Heb 10:14 with John 19:30 , where Jesus says " it is finished " with His One death in Heb 10:14 !

I will explain to you on Wednesday and saved you !!

dan p

I am more than sure Jerry can answer for himself, and I would worry about your own answers, not his.

 

[StanJ]

Hi and heb 10:14 reads , For by ONE offering He has PERFECTED FOREVER those who are being Sanctified !!


#1, The verb " He has perfected /TELEIOO " is in thre Greek Perfect Tense Active Voice and Indicative Mood .

#2 , This means that when saved , the Aorist Tense , they are ALWAYS in the Present Tense , so OSAS .

#3 , The Passive Voice then means that it is God that is doing the PERFECTION >

#4 , The Indicative Mood means that it is a FACT !


#5 The verb " them that are sanctified /HAGIAZO or made HOLY , is in the Greek Present Tense and are ALWAYS being MADE Holy by the Passive Voice and is an action by God !!


dan p

Yes, BEING. If they don't achieve it they won't receive Eternal Life.

1. But what does it MEAN Dan? It means; to perfect a person, advance a person to a completeness of its kind, which needs no further provision. That says NOTHING about OSAS. FYI, it is in the Present tense, Middle voice and Participle mood.
2. and as it is in the Present tense, it represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time.
3. It is in the middle voice
4. Yes I know God's Word is factual, but this is in the participle mood
5. Actually it is in the middle voice

Now I have no idea where or even IF you have actually studied Koine Greek or have credentials in such, but in any event, this post is totally wrong as far as the Greek grammar is concerned, and forces me to conclude you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[DAN P]

Yes, BEING. If they don't achieve it they won't receive Eternal Life.

1. But what does it MEAN Dan? It means; to perfect a person, advance a person to a completeness of its kind, which needs no further provision. That says NOTHING about OSAS. FYI, it is in the Present tense, Middle voice and Participle mood.
2. and as it is in the Present tense, it represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time.
3. It is in the middle voice
4. Yes I know God's Word is factual, but this is in the participle mood
5. Actually it is in the middle voice

Now I have no idea where or even IF you have actually studied Koine Greek or have credentials in such, but in any event, this post is totally wrong as far as the Greek grammar is concerned, and forces me to conclude you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hi and thanks for being concerned , for me , so read a Greek manuel and find OUT , what the tenses and Voices and Moods are there and no need to be a scholar to find out , so stop being a BLOOTER and learn !!

dan p

 

[StanJ]

Hi and thanks for being concerned , for me , so read a Greek manuel and find OUT , what the tenses and Voices and Moods are there and no need to be a scholar to find out , so stop being a BLOOTER and learn !!

dan p

I already know how, which is why I corrected you. Strong's is a very reliable online tool.

Funny how when you get found out, you resort to ad hominem.