ECT Omnipresence of Jesus

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tomlapalm

New member
He often "And he charged them straitly that no man should know it"

Why would He do this , if He was to show the world He was God?
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
God the Son left the earth, Bodily, and His Spirit as the sacrifice went to Heaven. Now , We say God the Holy Spirit acts here bringing men to Christ, God the Sun.

The Holy Spirit leads us the the Son, We can only access God the Father by the Son.
If we say the Son will never leave us, we are saying God will not leave us.

Jesus was physically bound to His body, but His knowledge, presence and power was not.

You should ask, why didn't Jesus know to bring enough food for the Five Thousand, Why didn't He know how much food had been brought?

?
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Let me get it clear.
1 - "God the Son left the earth". God the Son, that is Jesus Christ left Earth. Jesus Christ is not on Earth. Jesus Christ is not in some place, is not everyplace, is not omnipresent.

2 - "bodyly... spirit". Spliting Jesus Christ in two is Nestorianism.

3 - "went to Heaven". That means he was not there, where he went to. Againg a sign of not omnipresence. Going to somewhere where he was not is not omnipresence.
 
T

tomlapalm

New member
Being in more than place at a time is as close as we can get to omnipresence.

Jhn 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Jhn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

Mat 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now wait, I forgot after the ascension doesn't count, . You are examining, Jesus, God here as Human and being other places as well. so Rev., is out

so we are limiting this to a in the body And out of the body presence for Jesus/God.

So this one is sorta of by the standard. Jesus body was in the tomb, but He preached to those in "spiritual prison" or "hell " or paradise.
1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


So He is with others, in Heaven and in "Paradise" while His body is on earth.


So now do you want to talk about something bigger, grander?
 
T

tomlapalm

New member
Remember Jesus was in the flesh for our convenience or benefit, He was not limited by His action for us.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
Mat 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now wait, I forgot after the ascension doesn't count, . You are examining, Jesus, God here as Human and being other places as well. so Rev., is out
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Correct. Christ as God had omnipresence. But for incarnating, Christ did ampty out of the omnipresence he had. Christ before incarnation and after glorification is not questioned.
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
So this one is sorta of by the standard. Jesus body was in the tomb, but He preached to those in "spiritual prison" or "hell " or paradise.
1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


So He is with others, in Heaven and in "Paradise" while His body is on earth.


So now do you want to talk about something bigger, grander?
Click to expand...

Let see. Jesus was in two places: his tomb and Hell ¿¿¿??? That is ambipresence, or multypresence.
Check againg... you say that Christ being in his tomb went to Hell? Did Jesus went to Hell? If Jesus went to Hell, he was not on Hell before going. What is the porpouse of going where he already is. If Jesus went to Hell is because he was not there. If Jesus was not there he was not omnipresent.
Now... did Jesus reamin on Hell? Or did him leave Hell after preaching? If he left Hell, he is not any longer there. He is not in Hell, he is not everywhere. He is not omnipresent.
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
Remember Jesus was in the flesh for our convenience or benefit, He was not limited by His action for us.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Click to expand...

Jesus was not an omnipresent being who limited his omnipresence. The supposed limitation of hisdivine atributes is a bad sub-doctrine of the wrost Hypostatic Union.
Jesus was not omnipresent... period.
 
T

tomlapalm

New member
0scar said:
Let see. Jesus was in two places: his tomb and Hell ¿¿¿??? That is ambipresence, or multypresence.
Check againg... you say that Christ being in his tomb went to Hell? Did Jesus went to Hell? If Jesus went to Hell, he was not on Hell before going. What is the porpouse of going where he already is. If Jesus went to Hell is because he was not there. If Jesus was not there he was not omnipresent.
Now... did Jesus reamin on Hell? Or did him leave Hell after preaching? If he left Hell, he is not any longer there. He is not in Hell, he is not everywhere. He is not omnipresent.
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He went to Paradise. To show that not only a presence but the sacrifice was/will be presented to the Father
 
T

tomlapalm

New member
0scar said:
Jesus was not an omnipresent being who limited his omnipresence. The supposed limitation of hisdivine atributes is a bad sub-doctrine of the wrost Hypostatic Union.
Jesus was not omnipresent... period.
Click to expand...

Please show when Jesus limited His omnipresence
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
He went to Paradise. To show that not only a presence but the sacrifice was/will be presented to the Father
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was him at Paradise, before he went to it? Y / N
did he stay at paradise after presenting the good news? Y / N

if 2 Y, if Christ was at Paradise before going to it and he is still there... then we can asume that Christ has multypresence.

if 2 N, if Christ was not at paradise before going there and if he leves there after presenting the gospel... then definetly Christ did not have omnipresene.
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
If Jesus was not omnipresent , Is God omnipresent?
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I see that you are giving up trying to demostrate that the Jesus portrayed in the gospels is omnipresent. Now you go for the theological reasonings. What you do is to confirm the OP; that the supposed omnipresence of Jesus is only a theological need, but without scriptural support in the gospels.

0scar said:
Many christians do the next thinking: Jesus is God, God is omnipresent, Jesus is omnipresent.
This is a human reasoning. Human reasoning is the base principle of the gnostisism. The gnostisism start by believing that God and the truth of God can be reached by human thinking, reasoning and logic.
But human reasoning is dangerous and take us into the next thinking: If Jesus were not omnipresent, Jesus were not God, since God is omnipresent.

Trying to understan God and Jesus with the same atitude and tols of the gnostics, only get us into troubles and falceties. The falcety is that the deity of Jesus is directly conected to the fact of him being or not being omnipresent.

But the truth is that the conection between Jesus deity and Jesus omnipresence is merely a gnostic-like reasoning. Jesus being God has nothing to do with Jesus being omnipresent.

I strongly believe, out of any doubt that Jesus was (past tence refers to his time on Earth) God, completely divine.
And I know by reading the NT that Jesus was NOT omnipresent at all.

Do you have/know of any verse in the Bible stating Jesus omnipresence?
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All the mistake of the theologian is that they dont understand that God has omnipresence, but God is not omnipresence.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99525
 
T

tomlapalm

New member
No I was accepting you parameters as the OP, just adding the question about God.

God is not omnipresent?

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me
 
0scar

0scar

New member
tomlapalm said:
No I was accepting you parameters as the OP, just adding the question about God.

God is not omnipresent?

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me
Click to expand...

Do you want to demostrate that God is omnipresent. Do it here:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=99525

Next of your argument will be that Jesus is God and is omnipresent.
otherwise, if Jesus is not omnipresent he is not God.

That is all about: the omnipresence of Jesus is a doctrinal need; but it is not a gospel doctrine.
 
0scar

0scar

New member
Option 1
1st Statement: God is omnipresent
2nd Statement: Jesus is God
Conclusion: Jesus is omnipresent

Option 2.
1st Statement: God is omnipresent
2nd Statement: Jesus is not omnipresent
Conclusion: Jesus is not God

Option 3:
1st Statement: Jesus is not omnipresent
2nd Statement: Jesus is God
Conclusion: God is not omnipresent.


The 3 key statements:
God is omnipresent
Jesus is God
Jesus is not omnipresent


My position:
God is omnipresent = false
Jesus is God = true
Jesus is omnipresent = (false x true) false

God is omnipresent = false
Jesus is not omnipresent = true
Jesus is not God = (false x true) false

Jesus is not omnipresent = true
Jesus is God = true
God is not omnipresent = (true x true) true
 
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