Muslim here. Ask me a question..

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
And they said: "The most merciful he has taken a Son. Truly You came, a disastrous thing.” The heavens are well nigh (to) burst from Him and the earth she cleaves asunder and then later the mountains fall down into pieces violently with noise. That they called to the most merciful a Son. And that it is convenient to the most merciful that he takes a Son. 19.88 – 92[/color]

88. And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]."

89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,

91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).

92. But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children). (19.88-92)​

Also in a different translation:

88. And they say, "The Most Merciful has begotten a son."

89. You have come up with something monstrous.

90. At which the heavens almost rupture, and the earth splits, and the mountains fall and crumble.

91. Because they attribute a son to the Most Merciful.

92. It is not fitting for the Most Merciful to have a son.
(19.88-92)
 

Greg Jennings

New member
No your quotes do not. How is it you know so well what the Quran means, and what it meant to the first Muslims?

They do, but feel free to deny.

Because I've actually conversed with Muslims about it. Whereas you get your opinions from anti-Muslim, Christian websites. See the difference?
 

Greg Jennings

New member
Any Jew or Christian that uses the term Allah when referring to the God of the Holy Bible, uses the term as a translation of the original Hebrew and Greek, only.

Well actually, you're the one translating it into English. You're correct that 'Allah' came after 'YHWH,' 'Elohim,' and the Aramaic 'Alilah' (a word Jesus actually spoke. Sounds a lot like Allah, doesn't it?). But the Muslims in that region are also translating the name of God into their language.

The word 'Allah' came long before the word 'God', btw
 

brewmama

New member
They do, but feel free to deny.

Because I've actually conversed with Muslims about it. Whereas you get your opinions from anti-Muslim, Christian websites. See the difference?

No not at all. You obviously ignore anything posted and all the evidence that plenty of Muslims disagree with you, and just continue to claim things that have no basis.
Not to mention that some current Muslims are trying desperately to rehabilitate their image, and say anything, which you evidently believe without question.
 

Apple7

New member
88. And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]."

89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,

91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).

92. But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children). (19.88-92)​

Also in a different translation:

88. And they say, "The Most Merciful has begotten a son."

89. You have come up with something monstrous.

90. At which the heavens almost rupture, and the earth splits, and the mountains fall and crumble.

91. Because they attribute a son to the Most Merciful.

92. It is not fitting for the Most Merciful to have a son.
(19.88-92)

There is absolutely no denial that Jesus is The Son in the Arabic.

The only thing that was rendered correctly was the end-time-events, as recorded in the Book of Revelation (its source)....and Jesus is responsible for this as He opens the seals....
 

Greg Jennings

New member
No not at all. You obviously ignore anything posted and all the evidence that plenty of Muslims disagree with you, and just continue to claim things that have no basis.
Not to mention that some current Muslims are trying desperately to rehabilitate their image, and say anything, which you evidently believe without question.

How many Muslims do you know?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say 0. If you think that accuracy comes from viewing only one side of an argument and ignoring the other, you're a fool. Plain and simple. That's like only watching CNN or Fox News and expecting unbiased reporting
 

Apple7

New member
Well actually, you're the one translating it into English. You're correct that 'Allah' came after 'YHWH,' 'Elohim,' and the Aramaic 'Alilah' (a word Jesus actually spoke. Sounds a lot like Allah, doesn't it?). But the Muslims in that region are also translating the name of God into their language.

The word 'Allah' came long before the word 'God', btw


The 'allah' spoken of in the Koran is rooted in pagan Arab idol worship.

The 'allah' of the Koran is a false god, and has nothing in common with Yahweh.
 

Greg Jennings

New member
The 'allah' spoken of in the Koran is rooted in pagan Arab idol worship.

The 'allah' of the Koran is a false god, and has nothing in common with Yahweh.

No, friend. I doubt you're actually open to the facts of it all, but El/Elohim (you know, the name of the God of Abraham in some of the Old Testament?) is the name of the Canaanite god, El. That's pretty pagan man.

I don't remember there being an Allah in Canaanite religion.....hmm...
 

Apple7

New member
No, friend. I doubt you're actually open to the facts of it all, but El/Elohim (you know, the name of the God of Abraham in some of the Old Testament?) is the name of the Canaanite god, El. That's pretty pagan man.

I don't remember there being an Allah in Canaanite religion.....hmm...

Let's look...

ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.

Shama’ Yisra’el Yahweh Elohim Yahweh Echad

Deu 6:4 Hear,8085 O Israel:3478 Yahweh3068 our God430 Yahweh3068 (is)one259



יְהוָה = “Yahweh”

“Yahweh” definition:

H3068 Singular noun. The Tetragrammaton YHWH, the Lord, or Yahweh, the personal name of God and His most frequent designation in scripture, occurring 5321x. The word refers to the proper name of the God of Israel, particularly the name by which He revealed Himself to Moses (Ex: 6.2-3). It comes from the root “hawa” H1961, which means either existence, or development; “to be”. “The existing one”.

H1961 “hawa” A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

H1933 “havah” A primitive root supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.


References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 1067 - 1081
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #484a, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 210 – 212
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 426






ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.


אֱלֹהֵינוּ = “Elohim”

“Elohim” definition:

H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a “Plural of Majesty”. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form “Elohim” occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

H433 “eloah” Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17







ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.



אֶחָד = “echad”

“echad” definition:

H259 Adjective. One, same, single, first, each, once. It is closely identified with “yahad”, to be united and with “ro’sh”, first, head. It stresses unity while recognizing diversity within that oneness. A numerical adjective meaning one, first, once, the same. A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together. One (number), each, every, a certain, an (indefinite article), only, once, once for all, one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one, first, eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal).

H258 “achad” Verb. Perhaps a primitive root; to unify, that is, (figuratively) collect (one’s thoughts): - go one way or other; be sharp, keen.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #61, #605, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, p. 30, 263
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 33
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 10
 

brewmama

New member
How many Muslims do you know?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say 0. If you think that accuracy comes from viewing only one side of an argument and ignoring the other, you're a fool. Plain and simple. That's like only watching CNN or Fox News and expecting unbiased reporting

I'm glad you realize that. Now if you would only put it into practice.
 

Greg Jennings

New member
Let's look...

ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.

Shama’ Yisra’el Yahweh Elohim Yahweh Echad

Deu 6:4 Hear,8085 O Israel:3478 Yahweh3068 our God430 Yahweh3068 (is)one259



יְהוָה = “Yahweh”

“Yahweh” definition:

H3068 Singular noun. The Tetragrammaton YHWH, the Lord, or Yahweh, the personal name of God and His most frequent designation in scripture, occurring 5321x. The word refers to the proper name of the God of Israel, particularly the name by which He revealed Himself to Moses (Ex: 6.2-3). It comes from the root “hawa” H1961, which means either existence, or development; “to be”. “The existing one”.

H1961 “hawa” A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

H1933 “havah” A primitive root supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.


References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 1067 - 1081
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #484a, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 210 – 212
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 426






ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.


אֱלֹהֵינוּ = “Elohim”

“Elohim” definition:

H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a “Plural of Majesty”. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form “Elohim” occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

H433 “eloah” Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17







ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.



אֶחָד = “echad”

“echad” definition:

H259 Adjective. One, same, single, first, each, once. It is closely identified with “yahad”, to be united and with “ro’sh”, first, head. It stresses unity while recognizing diversity within that oneness. A numerical adjective meaning one, first, once, the same. A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together. One (number), each, every, a certain, an (indefinite article), only, once, once for all, one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one, first, eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal).

H258 “achad” Verb. Perhaps a primitive root; to unify, that is, (figuratively) collect (one’s thoughts): - go one way or other; be sharp, keen.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #61, #605, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, p. 30, 263
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 33
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 10

Apple, I have examined your identical arguments in much older threads. You've been corrected repeatedly, but continue to spout the same unsourced nonsense as usual. If you are set on being a bigot, I can't change that. But know that honest people don't do what you do.

Anyone that wants to actually find the truth should do their own independent research, and not rely on what an admittedly biased site with a clear agenda tells them. Use multiple sources, and use reliable ones. What are reliable sources? If the site is university-affiliated or end in .gov or .org, you're normally in the clear. If it says something like, "Islam is the devil!" or "Christians are infidels!" in the title, it's likely not a great source
 

Greg Jennings

New member
So you still haven't watched it, huh?

I watched four minutes. It became clear after 30 seconds that there was no corroboration for this woman's claims, you're just taking them at face value because it fits what you want to hear. Anyone can say whatever they want on Facebook. Surprisingly, this doesn't make it true or even slightly credible. Get actual facts from real sources to back up her words and you're right. Until then, it's simply one woman's Facebook video post.

Do you think there aren't a thousand Facebook videos from Muslims saying similar things about Christianity? Again, anybody can say anything on Facebook, and that doesn't make it true
 

Apple7

New member
Start running...

Start running...

Apple, I have examined your identical arguments in much older threads. You've been corrected repeatedly, but continue to spout the same unsourced nonsense as usual. If you are set on being a bigot, I can't change that. But know that honest people don't do what you do.

You should be able to provide links, if this were true.

But...you have none.

Furthermore, name-calling won't help your cause.





Anyone that wants to actually find the truth should do their own independent research, and not rely on what an admittedly biased site with a clear agenda tells them. Use multiple sources, and use reliable ones. What are reliable sources? If the site is university-affiliated or end in .gov or .org, you're normally in the clear. If it says something like, "Islam is the devil!" or "Christians are infidels!" in the title, it's likely not a great source

Let us know when you are finished raging...
 

Greg Jennings

New member
You should be able to provide links, if this were true.

But...you have none.

Furthermore, name-calling won't help your cause.



In the thread I referenced previously where I observed you interacting with someone who continually proved you wrong, links were provided by the person showing you up. You ignored them repeatedly. Do you think I'm going to fall into this trap of giving you links you'll never consider reading? Child, please. I've got better things to do, shockingly.

Let us know when you are finished raging...

I'm finished. But you've been going strong for over a year now (as the thread I referenced shows). I think the real question is: when are YOU going to stop raging about this?
 
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