Jesus is God.

[KingdomRose]

Yes, He is God and Savior

Titus 2:13 KJV - Jude 1:25 KJV -

Horsefeathers. Titus 2:13 is another AMBIGUOUS verse, as presented by many versions. Remember, Greek (from which the N.T. is translated) has no punctuation. This verse is, in reality, speaking of TWO PERSONS, God, the Father, AND Christ Jesus. This is another possible rendering, considering that Greek has no punctuation:

"As we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God AND of our savior Jesus Christ." (New American Bible)


The disciples back then in the first century had great respect and love for the Father, and they referred to Him very often, being thankful that He provided His Son for our redemption. People today ignore this, and it has a great deal to do with the thought that "God" and "Lord" always refer to Jesus. That is a mistake.

Now, how do you figure that Jude 1:25 refers to Jesus? It says "THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord," showing that God (the Father) is wished glory, majesty, power and authority THROUGH Jesus. If it referred to Jesus only, it wouldn't say that all that majesty and power went to Jesus THROUGH himself.

No, that verse refers mainly to the Father who is the only God, as Jesus himself said: "Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3, New American Bible)

Jude 1:25 is translated this way in other versions:

"To the only God [who is ____according to Jesus?), our savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord be glory, majesty, power, and authority from ages past, now, and for ages to come." (NAB)

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, belong glory and majesty, dominion and authority, before all time, and now, and forever." (New Catholic Edition


If you go back to the Introduction to the letter of Jude, God the Father is mentioned in the first verse, along with Jesus Christ. The Father is always acknowledged. The letter to Titus shows the same thing. It is God, the Father, who is the subject of the first 4 verses of chapter 1.

BTW, "savior" is a word applied to BOTH the Father and Jesus. It is the Father, Jehovah, who is the SOURCE of all power and authority, and is therefore the Savior. Jesus is the means by which the Father saves. Jehovah GAVE Jesus the commands to go to the earth and follow His directions, and some of His directions concerned Jesus' saving work on the 'cross,' thus becoming the "salvation of Jehovah," which is what "Yeshua"/ "Jesus" means. Jehovah saves by means of Jesus, or, through Jesus.

 

[Nick M]

Don't you like how the heathen claims a verse doesn't mean what it says when they don't like what it says.....

 

[Nick M]

Speaking of who is God and who is the savior;

1 Timothy 4

10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

2 Timothy 4

1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Timothy 4

18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!


Titus 1
3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

Titus 2

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Titus 3

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us,

1 Timothy 1


15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6

13In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.


2 Timothy 1

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ

Exodus 24

9 Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. 11 But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.

John 1

18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him

 

[jamie]

He did not. There is no scripture that shows that he claimed to be God.

It's simple. As a human being Jesus could not claim to be God. God is not flesh and blood and for Jesus to claim that he was God would have been less than truthful. However, Jesus was resurrected, not as flesh and blood but as Spirit. He could appear and disappear at will.

After he was resurrected he appeared to Thomas who addressed him as Lord and God. Jesus did not deny that he is Lord and God and he passed a blessing on those who believe in him. (John 20:29)

 

[Bright Raven]

It's simple. As a human being Jesus could not claim to be God. God is not flesh and blood and for Jesus to claim that he was God would have been less than truthful. However, Jesus was resurrected, not as flesh and blood but as Spirit. He could appear and disappear at will.

After he was resurrected he appeared to Thomas who addressed him as Lord and God. Jesus did not deny that he is Lord and God and he passed a blessing on those who believe in him. (John 20:29)

The resurrection was bodily. He rose in the same body in which He was crucified. I do agree with you on John 20:29

 

[jamie]

Titus 2:13 is another AMBIGUOUS verse, as presented by many versions.

Jesus Christ will manifest himself to the world to establish God's kingdom. There is no scripture that suggests the Father will manifest himself to the world. On the contrary scripture says the Father will remain in the heavenly realm.

Then comes the end when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
(1 Corinthians 15:24)​

 

[djhow]

so why was the body not left behind?

 

[djhow]

The resurrection was bodily. He rose in the same body in which He was crucified. I do agree with you on John 20:29

if Jesus only rose in Spirit then why didn't he leave his body behind?

 

[jamie]

The resurrection was bodily. He rose in the same body in which He was crucified.

I hope he wore a jacket, it's cold up there in the clouds. In World War II bomber crews had to wear bomber jackets because of the cold.

Actually, Paul explained there are two types of bodies.

But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” (1 Corinthians 15:35)

It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:44)

And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Corinthians 15:49-50)​

 

[djhow]

to say Jesus rose in spirit is to really say he didn't rise at all

 

[jamie]

to say Jesus rose in spirit is to really say he didn't rise at all

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. (Romans 8:11)​

 

[Bright Raven]

I hope he wore a jacket, it's cold up there in the clouds. In World War II bomber crews had to wear bomber jackets because of the cold.

Actually, Paul explained there are two types of bodies.

But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” (1 Corinthians 15:35)

It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:44)

And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Corinthians 15:49-50)​

The following may challenge your way of thinking;

https://carm.org/jesus-resurrection-was-physical

 

[djhow]

Absolutely the spirit that raised Jesus's body from the dead dwell in you

 

[steko]

The following may challenge your way of thinking;

https://carm.org/jesus-resurrection-was-physical

Right on! :thumb:

 

[jamie]

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:51)​

Changed in what way?

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:53)​

In a flesh and blood body the life is in the blood. In Jesus' Spirit body his life is inherent, he cannot die.

 

[jamie]

Right on! :thumb:

Right on? Really?

Ok, at one time Jesus' physical body indwelt Mary's body, but then he was born. Like Jesus we have all been born of a woman and like Jesus we shall be born again, not of flesh which profits nothing, but of the Spirit who lives forever.

 

[Bright Raven]

Right on? Really?

Ok, at one time Jesus' physical body indwelt Mary's body, but then he was born. Like Jesus we have all been born of a woman and like Jesus we shall be born again, not of flesh which profits nothing, but of the Spirit who lives forever.

Guess you need to study a bit. oly:

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles...body-be-a-physical-resurrection-from-the-dead

 

[steko]

Right on? Really?

Ok, at one time Jesus' physical body indwelt Mary's body, but then he was born. Like Jesus we have all been born of a woman and like Jesus we shall be born again, not of flesh which profits nothing, but of the Spirit who lives forever.

When one finds an old truck in a barn and redeems it, the old truck is not destroyed and a new one put in its place. Redemption means the old one is 'changed/Grk- allosso/altered and brought up to its former usefulness and perhaps better.

This mortal puts on immortality. The mortal is not replaced altogether but new spiritual qualities are added. The Scripture doesn't say this mortal is annihilated and replaced.

This corruptible must put on incorruption. It doesn't say that this corruptible body is replaced with a totally different one, but that it takes on the added quality of incorruption.

The Word put on flesh, lived in the flesh, died in the flesh, was resurrected in the flesh, ascended in the flesh and will return here in the flesh.

In ICor 15, Paul is not juxtaposing the spiritual with the physical, but the spiritual with the natural.

A resurrected body is physical, as well as spiritual.

Spiritual does not mean non-physical, in ICo 15.

 

[keypurr]

What about love your neighbor as yourself? If we don't love ourselves then how can we love our neighbors? And if we don't know true unconditional love but rather that which depends on the intensity of our beliefs or the quality of our ability to live up to an image of being like Jesus for example, then how can we genuinely honor the commandment?


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I honestly try to do just that friend. It is my love for God that give me the power to do that. It's not easy to overide human instincts.

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[keypurr]

And it is the Holy Spirit that causes the law to be in our heart and to overcome our proclivity to sin. No human is a son of God without God's Spirit.

Amen, amen. I believe that the spirit is working in many different ways in many different people. We need to share our gifts and keep open to receive what others have been given. But our line of reason needs to be crossed in order to believe in what is shared. Prove all things, reason it out and truth will come to us.

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