IS M.A.D. DOCTRINE NECESSARY IN ORDER TO RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

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SimpleMan77

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heir said:
Salvation is not in DOING, but BELIEVING something. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17 KJV).

Our salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).

Grace is no more of works otherwise grace is no more grace (Romans 11:6 KJV).

Trusting the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) required no work on our part whatsoever (Titus 3:5 KJV)!
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Look up the the word "believe" in any dictionary, and tell me if it is ever anything other than an "action verb". It is classified that way every time, because it is something you choose to "DO" or "not DO" (action).

That doesn't mean we can earn our salvation. We are totally saved by grace. If you owe a billion dollars, and Warren Buffet walks in and say "I'll pay this off - simply TAKE this check and GIVE it to your debtor". If you physically teach out and "take it" did you pay it off through earning it? Working for it?

Obedience to someone offering you a gift isn't works, it's grace. Stepping over to his desk to take it, walking through a door to his office, whatever his simple instructions, those aren't "works" as defined by the Bible.


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heir

heir

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SimpleMan77 said:
Look up the the word "believe" in any dictionary, and tell me if it is ever anything other than an "action verb". It is classified that way every time, because it is something you choose to "DO" or "not DO" (action).
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This is doing something Acts 2:37-38 KJV

This is believing something by doing nothing Acts 16:30-31 KJV

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This is doing something to be accepted Acts 10:35 KJV

This is being accepted by doing nothing Titus 3:5 KJV
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Things that are different are not the same and doing something is clearly different than believing something by doing nothing (Romans 4:4-5 KJV)!
 
jamie

jamie

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heir said:
There are two bodies of believers in the so called NT and they have MANY differences!
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Oh, if Paul had only known that. Paul claimed there is only one body and that body is the church of God.

He must not have been a Madman.
 
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SimpleMan77

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heir said:
This is doing something Acts 2:37-38 KJV

This is believing something by doing nothing Acts 16:30-31 KJV

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This is doing something to be accepted Acts 10:35 KJV

This is being accepted by doing nothing Titus 3:5 KJV
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Things that are different are not the same and doing something is clearly different than believing something by doing nothing (Romans 4:4-5 KJV)!
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Why was the jailer baptized... in the middle of the night?

True "belief" cannot exist outside of obedience. Abraham's couldn't have, and the jailer couldn't have.


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jamie

jamie

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heir said:
:doh: I never said there is more than one Body of Christ. Do you need glasses?
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OK, in post 78 somebody said, "There are two bodies of believers in the so called NT and they have MANY differences!"

I thought it was you. I'm glad you don't believe there are two bodies of believers. That wouldn't make sense.

I wear reading glasses. How about you?
 
jamie

jamie

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heir said:
Things that are different are not the same and doing something is clearly different than believing something by doing nothing (Romans 4:4-5 KJV)!
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Yes, and Jesus Christ is looking for people who are experienced at doing nothing.

It's called a free lunch, you get something for nothing. It's magic.
 
heir

heir

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jamie said:
OK, in post 78 somebody said, "There are two bodies of believers in the so called NT and they have MANY differences!"

I thought it was you. I'm glad you don't believe there are two bodies of believers. That wouldn't make sense.
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I did say that, but I do not believe there are two bodies of Christ. There is, but one Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:4 KJV), but there are two bodies of believers in the so called NT.

One is a royal priesthood, an holy nation (1 Peter 2:9 KJV) made up of kings and priests /from the 12 Tribes that James wrote to (James 1:1 KJV) who will become that holy nation that Peter talked about, to whom Hebrews is written and to whom John wrote 1, 2, 3 John and Revelation (Revelation 1:6 KJV, Revelation 5:10 KJV). The doctrine of Peter, James and John has to do with Christ's second coming/ His earthly rule and reign. There are Gentiles wo inherit this kingdom (the kingdom of heaven)(Matthew 25:34 KJV), but they are there as a result of their blessing Israel during the Great Tribulation (Matthew 25:31-46 KJV).

None of the above describes the one Body, the church, which is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV) that the saved are in today, nor our gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), standing (Romans 4:25 KJV,1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV, Galatians 2:16 KJV, Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV, Colossians 2:10-13 KJV), position (Colossians 3:11 KJV) or inheritance (Ephesians 2:6 KJV, Philippians 3:20-21 KJV, Colossians 3:1-2 KJV).
 
heir

heir

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jamie said:
Yes, and Jesus Christ is looking for people who are experienced at doing nothing.

It's called a free lunch, you get something for nothing. It's magic.
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vs.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
 
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SimpleMan77

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heir said:
It doesn't say why or how. Is water baptism required of us? What if I "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" and refuse water baptism as being to me, a member of the one Body? Am I being disobedient?
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Because I am a simple man, and believe that scripture should be made plain (simple), I'll give a simple answer, and that is yes.

MAD is partly correct when they note the transition in the what the Gentiles are required to do vs the Jews at the beginning of the book of Acts compared to the end. However, that is a process, not an event, and it had more to do with the prejudices of the Jewish believers than anything. Peter wouldn't eat with Gentiles at the start of the book, but God took that part of the law away from him before Paul was preaching to the Gentiles. God gradually took the Jews into His perfect plan, one event at the time. By the end of the book of Acts, around the time Peter is writing his epistle, Paul is still baptizing people, and Peter is opening his second epistle talking about Saving Faith through the righteousness of God.

The danger of MAD is that it destroys parts of the teachings of Jesus that we are still required to obey.

There were hundreds of thousands of conversions in Acts, but only 4 or 5 are really given in detail. They are

1. Jews (Acts 2)
2. Samaritan (mixed-breed Jews, Acts 8)
3. Gentiles (Acts 10)
4. Immature believers (Acts 19 - immature in the sense of still living under an outdated message, the baptism of John).

In each instance they were baptized as part of their obedience to the word of God. They did it because they were commanded/instructed to.

The stories of those 4 groups were included in the book of Acts for a very specific reason by God - to include every group He was reaching. It fulfilled his words that his disciple would be witnesses to Him in "Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the world.

Paul was quicker on the uptake than some of the other Apostles, but usually people who realize just how putrid they are are willing to leave their own nature completely behind much quicker than others. Paul was a murderer, so he sold out to God and accepted what God's true plan was more quickly. The other disciples were slower to leave their traditions behind, but Jesus (through the Holy Ghost) led them out of Mosaic Law and into grace as quickly as he could.

Baptism was essential obedience in the beginning and end of the book of Acts.


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jamie

jamie

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heir said:
I did say that, but I do not believe there are two bodies of Christ.
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Somebody said there are two bodies of believers.

Paul said there is one body in Christ (Romans 12:5) and one body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27).

Are you saying these are two separate bodies, those in Christ and those of Christ?

I suspect things that are the same are not different, how about you?
 
jamie

jamie

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steko said:
It's not magic.
It's grace based on the high cost of the blood of Christ shed on the cross.
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OK, but somebody said we are saved by grace through faith, and we know faith must be demonstrated by what we say and do.

That's the law.
 
steko

steko

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jamie said:
OK, but somebody said we are saved by grace through faith, and we know faith must be demonstrated by what we say and do.

That's the law.
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Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul indicates that genuinely new creations in Christ Jesus were created unto good works.
The works follow from genuine salvation.
Good works do not obtain salvation.
It's plain that salvation is by grace through faith apart from good works, according to Paul's 'my gospel',in this present economy/dispensation .
 
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SimpleMan77

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jamie said:
Paul was a rabbi, a teacher of the Hebrew scriptures. The other apostles were tradesmen not educated at the feet of Gamaliel.
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True, and because of that he was a religious mass murderer.

When he realized that, by his own testimony he labored more abundantly than anyone else. The reason was because he felt like he was a debtor to everybody. His past propelled him into an utter abhorring of anything but Jesus.


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jamie

jamie

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steko said:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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Yes, salvation is God's gift and then we are to present our body as a living sacrifice, which is our reasonable service. (Romans 12:1)
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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steko said:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul indicates that genuinely new creations in Christ Jesus were created unto good works.
The works follow from genuine salvation.
Good works do not obtain salvation.
It's plain that salvation is by grace through faith apart from good works, according to Paul's 'my gospel',in this present economy/dispensation .
Click to expand...

Excellent post Steko
 
heir

heir

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SimpleMan77 said:
Because I am a simple man, and believe that scripture should be made plain (simple), I'll give a simple answer, and that is yes.
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If that were true then Paul would have been disobedient when he thanked God that he baptized only these (1 Corinthians 1:14 KJV)! Also, Paul would not have beseeched us to walk worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called endevouring to keep the unity of the Spirit which includes, but one baptism (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV)! Water baptism has no place today.
 
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