Gentiles didn't observe the Law, they were never under the Law nor received it. Only the House of Israel was under the Law. Paul only preached "The Grace Gospel" that he received from The Ascended Lord Jesus Christ. That's the only message Paul was sent to preach. God chose Paul to be "The Apostle to the Gentiles."
IS M.A.D. DOCTRINE NECESSARY IN ORDER TO RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?
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Gentiles didn't observe the Law, they were never under the Law nor received it. Only the House of Israel was under the Law. Paul only preached "The Grace Gospel" that he received from The Ascended Lord Jesus Christ. That's the only message Paul was sent to preach. God chose Paul to be "The Apostle to the Gentiles."
SimpleMan77
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Thanks for clarifying. I enjoy hearing and learning different viewpoints.
One more point of clarification - by "works are not required", what are you referring to? Only Mosaic law works, or any works (such as making baptism a requirement)?
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Did Paul ever preach to Jews or did he check to make those he preached to were uncircumcised?
And if Paul ever preached to Jews why would he not preach his grace gospel message?
The poor Jews just never knew they weren't MAD. That's sad. Paul bad.
Water baptism is unnecessary. John the Baptist stated in Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
One need only hear the Gospel: Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Paul went to the Jews first and they rejected the message.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
LA
SimpleMan77
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Last statement from me because I don't think this is what the discussion was created for, so I'll respect your designs for it.
I think you need to look real hard at the works issue. Believing is a work. It something you have to choose to "do". Some have to work harder at it then others, and sometimes it is a fight (a fight of faith). At its purest and basic level, work is "force applied to produce movement". Conscious thought uses energy, and sends that energy to cause neurons to fire. "Work" does not have a minimum level of energy, force and movement required to qualify as work.
In a scriptural sense, anything we can choose to "do" is a work. When Paul instructed the jailor to "believe" he was telling him something he had to choose to do.
So pure belief in "no required works" can only believe extreme predestination, where someone who never heard of God, and lives their entire lives stealing, raping and murdering, and gets killed in the process of doing exactly that goes to heaven because Jesus determined that before he was born.
However, if obeying by believing, confessing, getting baptized, etc is simply obedience, and isn't "working to earn salvation", then grace still gets all the credit
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Why didn't John baptize with the Holy Spirit?
Thank you for respecting my vision for this thread.
This may be one of the reasons? John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. The "Comforter" is The Holy Spirit."
What are you trying to convey? Faith in Christ was a fundamental basis for both The Kingdom Believers and the Gentile Believers. However, the Gentile Believer went by Paul's Message, meaning: Faith without works saves and allows for eternal life in Heaven. Whereas, The House of Israel had to place their faith in Christ plus works. Therein lies the difference. Also, the Kingdom Believers were promised that christ would return to earth and establish His "Kingdom" while sitting on the throne of David. Two different messages during that period of time. It's of no use to explain it to you, after all, you'll reject every part of it. You and I both know that.
No such differentiation existed between any of the believers in the book of Acts.
You made that up about Israelite believers having to have faith plus works and the gentile believers not having to have works.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
LA
See what I mean? Talking to you is like talking to a bar of soap.
Yes, and this one: "But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39)
Yep
heir
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Acts 10:35 KJV does not equal Titus 3:5 KJV.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Salvation is not in DOING, but BELIEVING something. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17 KJV).
Our salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).
Grace is no more of works otherwise grace is no more grace (Romans 11:6 KJV).
Trusting the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) required no work on our part whatsoever (Titus 3:5 KJV)!
heir
TOL Subscriber
There are two bodies of believers in the so called NT and they have MANY differences!
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Indeed, and LA Lost is fretting and working to get into the one he cannot get into, while spurning and spitting in the face of the one welcoming him with open arms.
heir
TOL Subscriber
No. Trusting the Lord believing Paul's gospel is necessary for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Doctrine has more to do with reward or suffering loss as per 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, Philippians 1:9-10 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
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