Have you learned the shema?

[musterion]

I did not know that you were going to respond this way. Perhaps I should have sent you a private message or just said no. However, you can explain your view. I do not agree with what you said.

Shalom.

I call things as they are. You are a Gentile seeking to be justified by keeping Law, which can neither forgive nor justify. Neither was ever its purpose and that is a fact.

This means you are deceived and accursed per Galatians 1:8-9. Repent of it or you will be punished in flaming fire for refusing to love the Truth.

 

[Jacob]

I call things as they are. You are a Gentile seeking to be justified by keeping Law, which can neither forgive nor justify. Neither was ever its purpose and that is a fact.

This means you are deceived and accursed per Galatians 1:8-9. Repent of it or you will be punished in flaming fire for refusing to love the Truth.

No. You are incorrect. I am a Jew. And I am not seeking to be justified by the Law.

Shalom.

 

[freelight]

Have you read Matthew through Revelation or Paul's writings (his letters or epistles)?

Of course. I've shared amply about my interpretation of the shema here already. That's the subject here actually. You dismiss/reject my commentary on the face of it, with no engagement on what points or particulars you disagree with or agree with. You do not engage a discussion here, just a pat dismissal. This is not very good dialogue skills or etiquette.

I do not understand what you are saying, and I have read the Bible.

Then your English language skills are limited and/or you just are not well read enough to be familiar with a broader spectrum of religious ideas or concepts that are familiar to myself, hence my sharing of these concepts freely. Your religious studies/knowledge appears limited to the Torah or Bible alone, is this correct?

At this point, as we've shared already about the Shema, unless there is more to share, I don't know where else you'd like to go with the discussion, since you are rather limited in your engagement to foster such or answer my questions. Is English your first language?

 

[musterion]

No. You are incorrect. I am a Jew.

God does not recognize Jews after the flesh today. They are no different, spiritually, from Gentile "dogs." All are equally lost. Under grace, it is a meaningless label that does nothing.

And I am not seeking to be justified by the Law.

Then what ARE you seeking by keeping Law? It has ONE purpose: to point the lost to the Savior. Once it's done that, it's purpose is finished.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Have you learned the shema?.......

No but if you hum a few bars I can fake it.

 

[Jacob]

Of course. I've shared amply about my interpretation of the shema here already. That's the subject here actually. You dismiss/reject my commentary on the face of it, with no engagement on what points or particulars you disagree with or agree with. You do not engage a discussion here, just a pat dismissal. This is not very good dialogue skills or etiquette.

You do not understand. You cannot have your own interpretation of the shema.

Then your English language skills are limited and/or you just are not well read enough to be familiar with a broader spectrum of religious ideas or concepts that are familiar to myself, hence my sharing of these concepts freely. Your religious studies/knowledge appears limited to the Torah or Bible alone, is this correct?

I have studied the Torah and the Bible. I understand English. As a Jew I am not to study false religion. Shalom.

At this point, as we've shared already about the Shema, unless there is more to share, I don't know where else you'd like to go with the discussion, since you are rather limited in your engagement to foster such or answer my questions. Is English your first language?

Which language comes first?

I have grown up with English.

Shalom.

 

[Jacob]

God does not recognize Jews after the flesh today. They are no different, spiritually, from Gentile "dogs." All are equally lost. Under grace, it is a meaningless label that does nothing.



Then what ARE you seeking by keeping Law? It has ONE purpose: to point the lost to the Savior. Once it's done that, it's purpose is finished.

You are incorrect.

Shalom.

 

[Jacob]

No but if you hum a few bars I can fake it.

Not a good idea.

 

[freelight]

Do you accept the TaNaKh? I don't know that I understand your question. I do accept Matthew through Revelation.

You should read the Torah.

Jesus observed and taught the Torah.

As a Jew I follow Him.

Jesus is presented to have been a Torah observant Jew in some accounts in the synoptic gospels, however...he may have modified some Jewish laws or re-interpreted them to mean something else, besides discounting some of them altogether. This is a matter of debate, since there are other accounts or versions of Jesus out there, among them being from the Essene and Gnostic schools. There are also versions of Jesus from other accounts, such as the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, the Urantia Book record, the Talmud of Jmmanuel and others. Some believe Paul's letters do NOT agree with Jesus teaching and his keeping the Jewish law and customs, since he teaches a new gospel (his own) which is a gospel of grace, thru FAITH. - Gentile believers in Jesus were also NOT required to follow the entirety of the Torah or its customs,....do you recall the Jerusalem Council in the book of Acts???? - there is still the controversy or debate upon if Gentile converts or followers of Jesus are to be circumcised and follow the Jewish law and customs as Orthodox Jews do. Are you aware of this?

Did you know that Paul is a Jew?

He claimed to be one, but we cant be wholly sure of this beyond his own claims, just as much as he claimed to have been called to be an apostle by Jesus. He however taught a different/new gospel, by his own personal revelations and appears to discount the Torah in his writings. How do you explain the seeming anti-Torah teachings in Paul's letters?

See Bet Emet Ministries resource on Paul here

 

[musterion]

You are incorrect.

Don't be evasive. If I am in error, show me. What does keeping Law do for you before God? Or do you even know?

 

[Jacob]

Jesus is presented to have been a Torah observant Jew in some accounts in the synoptic gospels, however...he may have modified some Jewish laws or re-interpreted them to mean something else, besides discounting some of them altogether. This is a matter of debate, since there are other accounts or versions of Jesus out there, among them being from the Essene and Gnostic schools. There are also versions of Jesus from other accounts, such as the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, the Urantia Book record, the Talmud of Jmmanuel and others. Some believe Paul's letters do NOT agree with Jesus teaching and his keeping the Jewish law and customs, since he teaches a new gospel (his own) which is a gospel of grace, thru FAITH. - Gentile believers in Jesus were also NOT required to follow the entirety of the Torah or its customs,....do you recall the Jerusalem Council in the book of Acts???? - there is still the controversy or debate upon if Gentile converts or followers of Jesus are to be circumcised and follow the Jewish law and customs as Orthodox Jews do. Are you aware of this?



He claimed to be one, but we cant be wholly sure of this beyond his own claims, just as much as he claimed to have been called to be an apostle by Jesus. He however taught a different/new gospel, by his own personal revelations and appears to discount the Torah in his writings. How do you explain the seeming anti-Torah teachings in Paul's letters?

See Bet Emet Ministries resource on Paul here

I do not accept what you are saying.

 

[Jacob]

Don't be evasive. If I am in error, show me. What does keeping Law do for you before God? Or do you even know?

We are instructed to observe His commandments as found in the Torah.

Shalom.

 

[musterion]

We are instructed to observe His commandments as found in the Torah.

You're avoiding the question. WHY do you try to keep the Law, if not to be justified by it?

 

[freelight]

I do not accept what you are saying.

Because you refuse to expand your mind and consider that other points of view or perspectives exist. There is more knowledge to draw from and not just your narrow definition of reality.

 

[Jacob]

You're avoiding the question. WHY do you try to keep the Law, if not to be justified by it?

Is there a commandment of God that you observe?

 

[Jacob]

Because you refuse to expand your mind and consider that other points of view or perspectives exist. There is more knowledge to draw from and not just your narrow definition of reality.

Again, I do not accept what you are saying.

Shalom.

 

[patrick jane]

Is there a commandment of God that you observe?

Yes, honor Thanksgiving

 

[freelight]

Again, I do not accept what you are saying.

Shalom.

You do not accept because of your own dogmatic, narrow and limited view of reality.

 

[musterion]

Is there a commandment of God that you observe?

Why do you not answer? Have you no real faith in what you say you believe?

The question is simple. You try to keep Law...why?

If it can't justify you before God, what DOES keeping Law gain you?

Put the other way - what would NOT keeping Law lose for you?

Unless you're just a lying troll, you are convinced there's a necessary reason to keep Law.

What is that reason?

"Because it's in the Torah" isn't good enough...what happens if you DON'T keep it?

 

[freelight]

Yes, honor Thanksgiving

Yes, honor and praise Yah

'God' has many names and forms though,...but while in Rome :chuckle: