Has the Law been done away with?

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
That's the only Judaism there is.



The only way to become a Jew is to convert to Judaism and deny/reject Jesus Christ and follow Talmudic halacha - not Christ.



Which is why I stated: ["Jeremiah states that the new covenant is for the forgiveness of sins. So if one is not of the House of Israel, then they cannot be saved?"]
You don't need to reject the Messiah at all. Nobody does.

To be a Jew and accept Yeshua as the Messiah are not inconsistent at all.

You don't need to become a Jew. You can accept Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah (the Christ) whether you are a Jew or not.

But the Messiah was promised to Israel, and Jews are of Israel.
 

TweetyBird

New member
You don't need to reject the Messiah at all. Nobody does.

Judaism rejects Christ. The Jewish religion known as Rabbinic Talmudism rejects Christ. The Jewish people under that religious system reject Christ.

To be a Jew and accept Yeshua as the Messiah are not inconsistent at all.

I have said over and over again that all Jewish people who believe in Jesus Christ and all Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ are one new man in Christ. In Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile. We are all the same in Christ.

You don't need to become a Jew. You can accept Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah (the Christ) whether you are a Jew or not.

Perhaps you can explain then, why you insist on calling yourself a Jew when you are not.

But the Messiah was promised to Israel, and Jews are of Israel.

Jesus was promised to the whole world, not just for the Jewish people/Israel, but for every tribe and tongue, every nation under Heaven.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Judaism rejects Christ. The Jewish religion known as Rabbinic Talmudism rejects Christ. The Jewish people under that religious system reject Christ.
I believe you have a narrow view here that forces you to reject Judaism, or Rabbinic Talmudism (still Judaism), in order to accept or not reject Christ. But God's commands are not opposed to Jesus Christ. It is my belief that Jesus (Yeshua) observed and taught the Torah. He is the Messiah that was foretold in the scriptures. He is God's Anointed One. So, I both have nothing against Judaism or anything in Judaism, and have embraced Judaism as my own belief, religion, and faith. For a Jew who lives outside of the land of Israel we are no less a part of Israel. I was not born a Jew, but I am a convert.
I have said over and over again that all Jewish people who believe in Jesus Christ and all Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ are one new man in Christ. In Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile. We are all the same in Christ.
Here is what you need to know.

Ephesians 2:1-22 NASB - 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Romans 1:16 NASB - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9 NASB - There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

Romans 2:10 NASB - but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:12 NASB - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

Galatians 3:28 NASB - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 NASB - a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
Perhaps you can explain then, why you insist on calling yourself a Jew when you are not.
I identify with Israel, Judaism, and Christianity, while remaining a United States citizen. On this website I have been told that I am a Jew. I observe Torah. I have also been told that I am or would be a Ger. I am a convert to Judaism, and I observe the Law. I am a Jew because I am a convert. Are you familiar with the terms proselyte, convert, foreigner, sojourner, alien, and resident? I do not live in the land of Israel, but as a Jew and a convert to Judaism (while retaining my Christian identity) I am both of Israel and more than a Gentile who observes the Ten Commandments and God's Law who dwells in the land of Israel. See Isaiah 56.

As for the word Gentile or Gentiles see the following links to verses that contain this word in scripture. Gentile. Gentiles.

You may also be interested in the term Greek or Greeks.

Greek. Greeks.

Often the understanding of Jew and Greek is there in a person, even through reading the Bible and understanding scripture, before Israel and the Gentiles (nations). But again, a Jew is of Israel. I content that you do not have to be born a Jew to be a Jew.
Jesus was promised to the whole world, not just for the Jewish people/Israel, but for every tribe and tongue, every nation under Heaven.
Yes. The Messiah of Israel, the Messiah of the Jewish people, is God's Messiah. Even a Greek or a Gentile can believe Yeshua (Jesus) to be the Messiah.
 

TweetyBird

New member
I believe you have a narrow view here that forces you to reject Judaism, or Rabbinic Talmudism (still Judaism), in order to accept or not reject Christ.

Of course it's narrow. Rabbinic Judaism rejects Christ. It not only rejects Him, it mocks Him as an illegitimate son of a Roman soldier, and calls for His bones to be ground to dust. If one is a believer in Christ why would they ever go to Rabbinic Judaism for the truth?

But God's commands are not opposed to Jesus Christ.

The Mosaic Law is opposed to Christ. He is the High Priest after Melchizedek, not the priesthood of Aaron as ratified in blood under the old Mosaic Law Covenant. Jesus blood was shed for sins, not the blood of animals. Every law and commandment of the Mosaic Law Covenant is ratified in the blood of animals. It cannot be of any help to a believer in Christ.

It is my belief that Jesus (Yeshua) observed and taught the Torah.

He did not teach Torah and often did not even observe Torah during His ministry.

He is the Messiah that was foretold in the scriptures. He is God's Anointed One.

Yes, He is foretold in Scripture. Both of the Jews, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the root and offspring of David, the Son of David, King of the Jews and the whole world.

So, I both have nothing against Judaism or anything in Judaism, and have embraced Judaism as my own belief, religion, and faith.

Judaism does not teach about Jesus. It teaches against what Jesus taught. It denigrates Him and is a mockery of His death and the New Covenant. It does not recognize salvation in and through Him for the forgiveness of sin. Anyone who does not have Jesus Christ, the Son, does not have the God the Father.


For a Jew who lives outside of the land of Israel we are no less a part of Israel. I was not born a Jew, but I am a convert.

You are a self proclaimed Jew. You were not converted to Judaism. You cannot pull a Boaz Michaels and think you are now Jewish. Conversion to Judaism REQUIRES denial of Jesus Christ.

Often the understanding of Jew and Greek is there in a person, even through reading the Bible and understanding scripture, before Israel and the Gentiles (nations). But again, a Jew is of Israel. I content that you do not have to be born a Jew to be a Jew.Yes. The Messiah of Israel, the Messiah of the Jewish people, is God's Messiah. Even a Greek or a Gentile can believe Yeshua (Jesus) to be the Messiah.

If you do not have Jewish bloodline, the ONLY way you can become a Jew is to DENY Christ and covert to Judaism. If you are not Jewish by blood or conversion to Judaism, you are NOT a Jew.

Becoming a Jewish Convert:

Becoming Jewish
The pros and cons and how to do it.

(Please note that if your mother was Jewish before you were born, whether observant or not, then by Jewish Law you are also Jewish, and you do not need to convert. Please contact an Orthodox Rabbi for guidance.)

So, you want to become Jewish. I applaud your goal.

Becoming Jewish is, as you realize, a significant and life-changing event. It is not a small matter by any means.

But before you start, consider a few things. When a Gentile wants to become Jewish, the Rabbis are required to try to dissuade him. Only the very sincere make it through the entire process. And the process can take a long while. It may not turn out to be easy.

Becoming Jewish means that most of what you were taught about spirituality until now will be irrelevant, and in many cases wrong. You must drop the religious beliefs taught you by whatever other religion(s) you once followed or read about. People sometimes ask me, "Can I convert to Judaism and still believe in Jesus?" The answer is no. This is not something negotiable in Judaism. Jewish doctrine about G-d is core and inviolate. Non-Jewish beliefs about G-d invalidate a conversion (and Jesus is a prime example of a non-Jewish belief about G-d, no matter what anyone tells you). So this could be a major change for anyone contemplating conversion to Judaism. If this is difficult for you, then you should not be considering conversion at all.

You must also accept the fact that it is Hashem's Torah that defines what is right and what is wrong, what is spiritual and what is mundane, what elevates a person and what lowers him. Human beings do not make those determinations, and every such decision that a Rabbi makes is based on Torah precedent, i.e., established Jewish Law.

Your life style will also change, as well as the way you think about many things. Even the meaning of some words will change, especially if you have been Christian: words like "confession," "heaven," "patrilineal descent," "Messiah," "savior," and others.

It also means that your relationships will change. Not all your friends will be happy that you've become Jewish. Worse yet, your family members might disown you, as often happens.

When your parents, your siblings, even your children, sit down to eat a meal, you will often not be allowed to join them. You won't even be able to attend some of their joyous occasions. It is forbidden for a Jew to enter most non-Jewish places of worship. If your own baby sister gets married in a church, you will not be able to attend. If you have non-Jewish children from before you converted, you will not be allowed to attend any occasion they make in a church or any religious gathering. (If this occurs, make sure to consult with an Orthodox Rabbi before making any decision. There may be a solution.) Nor will you be allowed to celebrate Christmas or Hallowe'en, or any other religious holiday except the Jewish holidays.

And you will have to learn many rules. You will have to wear less revealing clothing all year round (which in the summer can make you feel hotter); you will have to be concerned wherever you go about the food you can buy and eat; you will have to make sure that you don't carry anything in your pockets outside your home on the Sabbath, and many other considerations. You will need two sets of dishes, two sets of pots and pans (and at least one more set for Passover), and you will have to keep different types of food separate. You will have to wait six hours after eating meat foods before eating dairy foods. Judaism will guide your steps and your thoughts every moment of your waking life.

As a convert to Judaism, you will be a Jew -- a full-fledged Jew. Think about the word "Jew" for a minute. It's a title we bear proudly, yet it's a word that comes from many mouths as a curse and insult. Of course, that's silly. It's like when a little boy thinks he's insulting a girl by calling her "girl!" Not only is it not an insult, but it should be borne proudly and openly.

http://www.beingjewish.com/conversion/becomingjewish.html
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Of course it's narrow. Rabbinic Judaism rejects Christ. It not only rejects Him, it mocks Him as an illegitimate son of a Roman soldier, and calls for His bones to be ground to dust. If one is a believer in Christ why would they ever go to Rabbinic Judaism for the truth?



The Mosaic Law is opposed to Christ. He is the High Priest after Melchizedek, not the priesthood of Aaron as ratified in blood under the old Mosaic Law Covenant. Jesus blood was shed for sins, not the blood of animals. Every law and commandment of the Mosaic Law Covenant is ratified in the blood of animals. It cannot be of any help to a believer in Christ.



He did not teach Torah and often did not even observe Torah during His ministry.



Yes, He is foretold in Scripture. Both of the Jews, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the root and offspring of David, the Son of David, King of the Jews and the whole world.



Judaism does not teach about Jesus. It teaches against what Jesus taught. It denigrates Him and is a mockery of His death and the New Covenant. It does not recognize salvation in and through Him for the forgiveness of sin. Anyone who does not have Jesus Christ, the Son, does not have the God the Father.




You are a self proclaimed Jew. You were not converted to Judaism. You cannot pull a Boaz Michaels and think you are now Jewish. Conversion to Judaism REQUIRES denial of Jesus Christ.



If you do not have Jewish bloodline, the ONLY way you can become a Jew is to DENY Christ and covert to Judaism. If you are not Jewish by blood or conversion to Judaism, you are NOT a Jew.

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
What you are saying does not make sense to me.

I don't believe what you are saying.

Please read Matthew 5:17-20 NASB and Romans 1:16-17 NASB.

Your ideas about me are wrong. I don't see anything wrong with Rabbinic Judaism. It is not all there is to Judaism. But it is what you have chosen to talk about. I believe Jesus to be the Christ. This is a Jewish and Christian idea.
 

TweetyBird

New member
What you are saying does not make sense to me.

Jesus did not teach "Torah". He came to teach a new commandment and new doctrines that no one had heard before. Why do you think so many people came to hear Him preach? If He was teaching Torah, they could hear that read on the Sabbath. Look at the verses after Matt 5:17-19. You all stop there instead of looking at what Jesus preached before those two verses and all the ones after that, including Matt 6 & 7. It was NOT Torah that He was teaching the people.

I don't believe what you are saying.

Probably because someone convinced you to follow a new religion not found in the Bible.

Your ideas about me are wrong. I don't see anything wrong with Rabbinic Judaism. It is not all there is to Judaism.

Yes, there is only one Judaism - Talmudic Rabbinical Judaism that is not about Jesus, but about Rabbis who deny and reject Jesus Christ and supplant what is written in the Bible with their own laws and commandments that makes up Judaism. It has nothing to do with Christ.

But it is what you have chosen to talk about. I believe Jesus to be the Christ. This is a Jewish and Christian idea.

It is a Biblical concept. Not a Jewish one. Salvation through Jesus Christ and His shed blood for the forgiveness of sins was never a Jewish concept. Even the disciples rejected the idea until after Jesus' resurrection.

Did you see the edit to my post above, #447 - quoting how one converts to Judaism?
 

Jacob

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Banned
Jesus did not teach "Torah". He came to teach a new commandment and new doctrines that no one had heard before. Why do you think so many people came to hear Him preach? If He was teaching Torah, they could hear that read on the Sabbath. Look at the verses after Matt 5:17-19. You all stop there instead of looking at what Jesus preached before those two verses and all the ones after that, including Matt 6 & 7. It was NOT Torah that He was teaching the people.



Probably because someone convinced you to follow a new religion not found in the Bible.



Yes, there is only one Judaism - Talmudic Rabbinical Judaism that is not about Jesus, but about Rabbis who deny and reject Jesus Christ and supplant what is written in the Bible with their own laws and commandments that makes up Judaism. It has nothing to do with Christ.



It is a Biblical concept. Not a Jewish one. Salvation through Jesus Christ and His shed blood for the forgiveness of sins was never a Jewish concept. Even the disciples rejected the idea until after Jesus' resurrection.

Did you see the edit to my post above, #447 - quoting how one converts to Judaism?

You are demonstrating that you don't understand. Read Matthew 5:17-20 NASB. This is four verses not three.

You are saying that certain people all teach the same thing. Well, in my personal walk I asked someone about these verses. These verses do not say that the Law has been abolished.

Christianity is not a new religion. You are incorrect.

Judaism predates Christianity. Here are some verses, one about when the disciples were first called Christians and two about a sect.

Acts 11:26 NASB - 26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Acts 24:14 NASB - 14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

Acts 28:22 NASB - 22 "But we desire to hear from you what your views are; for concerning this sect, it is known to us that it is spoken against everywhere."

Salvation through Jesus is indeed a Jewish concept. Remember, the gospel was for the Jew first and then the Greek. Read Romans 1:16-17 NASB.

As for your comment that Judaism can only mean Rabbinic Talmudism, you are incorrect. However, Rabbinic Talmudism is indeed Judaism. In Judaism there is one God and one people. But Judaism predates the Talmud.
 

TweetyBird

New member
You are demonstrating that you don't understand. Read Matthew 5:17-20 NASB. This is four verses not three.

You are saying that certain people all teach the same thing. Well, in my personal walk I asked someone about these verses. These verses do not say that the Law has been abolished.

Jesus said He came to fulfill it. Which He did, on the cross - all the Law and Prophets.

Man who trusts in man is cursed. So why are you believing what someone told you? The Law was FULFILLED - you are focusing on the wrong word. The promise is that the heavens and earth would be destroyed - it's coming. Be prepared, because no man knows the day or the hour.

Christianity is not a new religion. You are incorrect.

It was a new religion after Pentecost. The Gospel of Christ was preached, the Kingdom of Heaven, not the Mosaic Law. As Hebrews states - we are of the household of Jesus Christ, not of Moses' house hold which which spoke of what was to come.

Judaism predates Christianity. Here are some verses, one about when the disciples were first called Christians and two about a sect.

Acts 11:26 NASB - 26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.


Nothing there about Judaism, which did not exist until the middle ages AD. It's about Christ, aka Christians [followers of Christ - Jew and Gentile], not Moses, not Israel.

Acts 24:14 NASB - 14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

Of course they believed everything according to the Law and Prophets, as do I. But the Way was not the Mosaic Law - it was the Gospel of Christ. No where does that verse state the Law of Moses is still in effect.

Acts 28:22 NASB - 22 "But we desire to hear from you what your views are; for concerning this sect, it is known to us that it is spoken against everywhere."

Christianity, the Gospel, not Judaism.

Salvation through Jesus is indeed a Jewish concept. Remember, the gospel was for the Jew first and then the Greek. Read Romans 1:16-17 NASB.

No it's not a Jewish concept. The Jewish concept was to kill animals and sacrifice them, their blood atoning for sin. Never, was a man to die for another man's sins - according to the Law of Moses.

As for your comment that Judaism can only mean Rabbinic Talmudism, you are incorrect. However, Rabbinic Talmudism is indeed Judaism. In Judaism there is one God and one people. But Judaism predates the Talmud.

Judaism does not predate the Talmud. Judaism is the Rabbinic interpretations of the Torah and Tanakh, long after the first century. Judaism's God is not the God of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus, no man has God the Father.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Jesus said He came to fulfill it. Which He did, on the cross - all the Law and Prophets.

Man who trusts in man is cursed. So why are you believing what someone told you? The Law was FULFILLED - you are focusing on the wrong word. The promise is that the heavens and earth would be destroyed - it's coming. Be prepared, because no man knows the day or the hour.



It was a new religion after Pentecost. The Gospel of Christ was preached, the Kingdom of Heaven, not the Mosaic Law. As Hebrews states - we are of the household of Jesus Christ, not of Moses' house hold which which spoke of what was to come.




Nothing there about Judaism, which did not exist until the middle ages AD. It's about Christ, aka Christians [followers of Christ - Jew and Gentile], not Moses, not Israel.



Of course they believed everything according to the Law and Prophets, as do I. But the Way was not the Mosaic Law - it was the Gospel of Christ. No where does that verse state the Law of Moses is still in effect.



Christianity, the Gospel, not Judaism.



No it's not a Jewish concept. The Jewish concept was to kill animals and sacrifice them, their blood atoning for sin. Never, was a man to die for another man's sins - according to the Law of Moses.



Judaism does not predate the Talmud. Judaism is the Rabbinic interpretations of the Torah and Tanakh, long after the first century. Judaism's God is not the God of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus, no man has God the Father.

Have you ever heard someone discuss first century Judaism or first century Christianity?

I understand Jesus did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill.

No new religion. Pentecost (Shavuot) is an annual celebration, a feast and a Holy Day, on the Jewish calendar. We celebrate on the fiftieth day of counting the omer.
 

TweetyBird

New member
Have you ever heard someone discuss first century Judaism or first century Christianity?

Yes, that does not mean first century "Judaism" is a correct term. First century Christianity was the beginning of Christianity.

I understand Jesus did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill.

If Jesus fulfilled them, they are passed away. They are not abolished, because we can still read them.

No new religion. Pentecost (Shavuot) is an annual celebration, a feast and a Holy Day, on the Jewish calendar. We celebrate on the fiftieth day of counting the omer.

But what happened on Pentecost was something brand new and was the beginning of the Gospel being preached to the Jews and Gentiles. It was the fulfillment of the feast,no longer a required feast as found in the Torah. The apostles did not preach Moses from that moment on, they preached Christ crucified. And the rest is history!
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Yes, that does not mean first century "Judaism" is a correct term. First century Christianity was the beginning of Christianity.



If Jesus fulfilled them, they are passed away. They are not abolished, because we can still read them.



But what happened on Pentecost was something brand new and was the beginning of the Gospel being preached to the Jews and Gentiles. It was the fulfillment of the feast,no longer a required feast as found in the Torah. The apostles did not preach Moses from that moment on, they preached Christ crucified. And the rest is history!

Did you know the feasts are spoken of even after that Shavuot day?

When do you believe Judaism first came to be?
 

TweetyBird

New member
Did you know the feasts are spoken of even after that Shavuot day?

Yes, of course they were. The Jews were still keeping the Law of Moses. The disciples went to the feasts in Jerusalem in order to preach the Gospel because so many Jews were present for the required feasts.

When do you believe Judaism first came to be?


Judaism
Definitions

WordNet 3.6
n Judaism the monotheistic religion of the Jews having its spiritual and ethical principles embodied chiefly in the Torah and in the Talmud
n Judaism Jews collectively who practice a religion based on the Torah and the Talmud
***

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Judaism Conformity to the Jewish rites and ceremonies; the practise of Judaism{1}.
Judaism The adherents of Judaism{1} collectively; jewry.
Judaism The religious doctrines and rites of the Jews as enjoined in the laws of Moses, and for many adherents, in the Talmud.
***

Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia

n Judaism The religious system and polity of the Jews, as enjoined in the laws of Moses.
n Judaism Conformity to the Jewish rites and ceremonies.
n Judaism A Jewish quarter or Jewry.
***

Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary

Judaism the doctrines and rites of the Jews: conformity to the Jewish rites
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Yes, of course they were. The Jews were still keeping the Law of Moses. The disciples went to the feasts in Jerusalem in order to preach the Gospel because so many Jews were present for the required feasts.



Judaism
Definitions

WordNet 3.6
n Judaism the monotheistic religion of the Jews having its spiritual and ethical principles embodied chiefly in the Torah and in the Talmud
n Judaism Jews collectively who practice a religion based on the Torah and the Talmud
***

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Judaism Conformity to the Jewish rites and ceremonies; the practise of Judaism{1}.
Judaism The adherents of Judaism{1} collectively; jewry.
Judaism The religious doctrines and rites of the Jews as enjoined in the laws of Moses, and for many adherents, in the Talmud.
***

Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia

n Judaism The religious system and polity of the Jews, as enjoined in the laws of Moses.
n Judaism Conformity to the Jewish rites and ceremonies.
n Judaism A Jewish quarter or Jewry.
***

Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary

Judaism the doctrines and rites of the Jews: conformity to the Jewish rites
Does it help you to see these?
 

TweetyBird

New member
Does it help you to see these?

It proves what I have been saying all along. That Judaism refers to the religion of the Jews, which includes the Torah/Talmud. I don't think you grasp that "Torah" refers to the Talmudic interpretation of Torah. In other words, the Jewish religion known as Judaism bases its authority in the Talmud, not in the written Biblical text.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
It proves what I have been saying all along. That Judaism refers to the religion of the Jews, which includes the Torah/Talmud. I don't think you grasp that "Torah" refers to the Talmudic interpretation of Torah. In other words, the Jewish religion known as Judaism bases its authority in the Talmud, not in the written Biblical text.
Do you study the Torah, which is the Law, the Law of Moses, the First Five Books of the Bible, the Five Books of Moses, the Pentateuch?
 

iouae

Well-known member
Yes, of course they were. The Jews were still keeping the Law of Moses. The disciples went to the feasts in Jerusalem in order to preach the Gospel because so many Jews were present for the required feasts.

While some Jews and a few Christians try to keep a select few OT laws, neither Jews nor Christians keep more than a few of them. Nobody is implementing capital punishments as demanded by the OT. It's a self-delusion that anyone keeps the law, since if one breaks one, one breaks all. Only Jesus can save, the law never was intended to save, but rather to convict of sin.
 

TweetyBird

New member
Do you study the Torah, which is the Law, the Law of Moses, the First Five Books of the Bible, the Five Books of Moses, the Pentateuch?

Not any longer. I spent a long time studying Torah in depth when I was Messianic. A lot of it was based in Talmudism. When I got out of Messianic Judaism, I did quite a bit of research on the Talmud and found that much of what is taught in MJ comes from the Talmud, not the Law of Moses. In fact, one cannot keep the Law of Moses unless they follow halacha per the Talmud.
 

TweetyBird

New member
While some Jews and a few Christians try to keep a select few OT laws, neither Jews nor Christians keep more than a few of them. Nobody is implementing capital punishments as demanded by the OT. It's a self-delusion that anyone keeps the law, since if one breaks one, one breaks all. Only Jesus can save, the law never was intended to save, but rather to convict of sin.

Yea, I agree. It is not only impossible to keep/observe/obey the Mosaic Law, it is just wrong for a believer in Christ to do so. We are in a New Covenant with Him, new laws, new commandments for all in Him, not limited to keep within Israel's community, per the Law of Moses. There are some commandments from the Mosaic Law that carried over in part, to the New Covenant, but were incomplete until Christ. He redefined them to something new and unheard of, making the similar but incomplete observances in the Mosaic Law, obsolete.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Not any longer. I spent a long time studying Torah in depth when I was Messianic. A lot of it was based in Talmudism. When I got out of Messianic Judaism, I did quite a bit of research on the Talmud and found that much of what is taught in MJ comes from the Talmud, not the Law of Moses. In fact, one cannot keep the Law of Moses unless they follow halacha per the Talmud.
Do you study the Hebrew Bible or the Bible including the New Testament?
 
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