Freddie Gray – Records Indicate Spinal Injury Pre-existing

[journey]

Running from the police is never smart, especially when one has a lengthy criminal record. It creates reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed in the officer's presence. It is legal to stop the fleeing person with the circumstances given.

I don't think that the officers intended to cause those injuries, but I do want to see the investigation completed. I doubt that the officers were yelling, "do you have any medical conditions?" while they were chasing him. There's no need to guess when a complete investigation is being done, so let's wait for the results.

 

[journey]

Rusha, I already provided a link that puts an end to the "spinal surgery" story. Even Caino is walking back from his OP. Here it is:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

Just not CLEAR - not ended. Read the story again.

 

[Rusha]

Running from the police is never smart, especially when one has a lengthy criminal record. It creates reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed in the officer's presence. It is legal to stop the fleeing person with the circumstances given.

I don't think that the officers intended to cause those injuries, but I do want to see the investigation completed. I doubt that the officers were yelling, "do you have any medical conditions?" while they were chasing him. There's no need to guess when a complete investigation is being done, so let's wait for the results.

Just not CLEAR - not ended. Read the story again.

Exactly.

 

[Granite]

What's unclear about the story?

 

[jgarden]

Maryland Cop Lobbyists Helped Block Reforms Just Last Month

..... A recent report from the ACLU of Maryland found that at least 109 people died in police encounters in Maryland from 2010 to 2014.

Freddie Gray’s death — which came after his spinal cord was severed when he was in police custody — has become the latest national symbol of brutal policing in African-American communities, and has called particular attention to the poor relations between police and residents in Baltimore. Gray’s funeral sparked riots in Baltimore last night .

In a major investigation last year, the Baltimore Sun reported that the city has paid out $5.7 million since 2011 to settle police brutality cases. In many cases, charges were never even brought. For instance in 2012, Anthony Anderson died of internal trauma after police tackled him, claiming that they saw him engage in a drug deal. Even after a medical examiner ruled that the death was a homicide as a result of being tackled, the local prosecutor declined to bring charges.

At a hearing in Annapolis in March, Sgt. Robert Cherry, testifying on behalf of Baltimore police union Lodge 3, called for a continuation of Maryland’s long-standing law requiring that police misconduct investigations be conducted only by fellow officers.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/28/balltimore-freddie-gray-prosecute/

- at least 109 people died in police encounters in Maryland from 2010 to 2014

- the city has paid out $5.7 million since 2011 to settle police brutality cases

- in 2012, Anthony Anderson died of internal trauma after police tackled him, claiming that they saw him engage in a drug deal

- even after a medical examiner ruled that the death was a homicide as a result of being tackled, the local prosecutor declined to bring charges

- continuation of Maryland’s long-standing law requiring that police misconduct investigations be conducted only by fellow officers

Apparently peaceful attempts in the past to bring about police accountability in Maryland hit a "brick wall!

 

[Jose Fly]

What's unclear about the story?

Seems pretty clear to me...

But court records examined Wednesday by The Baltimore Sun show the case had nothing to do with a car accident or a spine injury. Instead, they are connected to a lawsuit alleging that Gray and his sister were injured by exposure to lead paint.

 

[jgarden]

Baltimore Radio Host Airs Outlandish Theories About Freddie Gray

Baltimore talk-radio fixture Tom Marr aired outlandish theories about the death of Freddie Gray during his Tuesday morning show, suggesting that Gray’s severed spine could be the result of a botched burglary or a “pre-existing condition.”

“I’m hearing that Freddie Gray may have sustained an injury himself while fleeing from police on March 20th, 2015. What I’m hearing is that in order to try to elude police, he jumped from a window, possibly as high as three stories,” said Marr.

Marr serves a “slice of the conservative pie” on his morning show on Talk Radio 680 WCBM. Gray, an African-American 25-year-old, died from spinal cord injuries while in police custody earlier this month.

Marr drifted between alternative theories to suggest that police might not be responsible for Gray’s death. “Did [Gray] have a preexisting condition?” asked Marr, after running through Gray’s criminal drug record and floating the possibility that he died from running into a wall. “We just don’t know answers yet.”

..... Marr also pinned the blame for Baltimore’s woes on Reverend Jamal Bryant, the pastor who delivered the eulogy for Freddie Gray’s funeral on Monday. Though Rev. Bryant repeatedly called for calm after the funeral and urged protesters to “go back home,” Marr singled him out for criticism.

Marr has been on the airwaves in the Baltimore area for decades, first as a play-by-play announcer for the Orioles and in recent years as a popular voice in conservative talk radio. During his term in office, Gov. Bob Ehrlich, R-Md., often served as Marr’s guest host. Recently elected Gov. Larry Hogan, R-Md., is also a friend of the show and frequent guest on the program.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/28/balltimore-freddie-gray-prosecute/

It would appear that the "powers that be" in Maryland are actively "leaking" confidential information about Freddie Gray to divert attention away from how he snapped his spine while under police custody.

One of the major sources of the "Freddie Gray – Records Indicate Spinal Injury Pre-existing" story is conservative Tom Marr, on his morning show Talk Radio 680 WCBM - Marr's frequent guests include past Maryland Governor Bob Ehrlich, R-Md. and present Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, R-Md.

 

[Angel4Truth]

In this case it almost certainly was. This city has a very serious race problem.

How, most of the cops are black, the city council is primarily black and the police chief is black and the mayor is black.

Also running from police in a known drug area is suspicion in most places. How do you know he wasnt running to ditch some drugs he had on him? :hint: you dont.

 

[journey]

This situation is a criminal problem - not a race problem. Do the crime - do the time, regardless of what color you are.

Being a career criminal is a dangerous profession, especially if you run from and resist police. Drug dealers make big money, but you have to consider down time with all those years behind bars. You are going to get caught.

 

[Granite]

How, most of the cops are black, the city council is primarily black and the police chief is black and the mayor is black.

Also running from police in a known drug area is suspicion in most places. How do you know he wasnt running to ditch some drugs he had on him? :hint: you dont.

Then you don't know much about Baltimore. Look into their economic disparity and their history of race relations. By the way: Attempting to smear a dead man is despicable.:down:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Not that this will make a difference to TOL's white guilt ridden liberals, but... (it's even coming from the ultra liberal WA Post, so it MUST be true!).

Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

The prisoner, who is currently in jail, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant, which is sealed by the court. The Post was given the document under the condition that the prisoner not be named because the person who provided it feared for the inmate’s safety.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=sm_tw

 

[Granite]

This situation is a criminal problem - not a race problem. Do the crime - do the time, regardless of what color you are.

Being a career criminal is a dangerous profession, especially if you run from and resist police. Drug dealers make big money, but you have to consider down time with all those years behind bars. You are going to get caught.

For the last time: Gray broke no law, and did not resist arrest. What about this is so hard for some of you to understand?

 

[Tinark]

Gray was only in the van with the second prisoner for the final five minutes of the ride, Miller told Lawrence O’Donnell on Wednesday evening. There is “no evidence [Gray was] banging [his] head against van,” Miller tweeted. Jane Cook, an attorney for the Gray family, called the report “speculation” as she had seen no evidence supporting it.

Jason Downs, another attorney of the Gray's, told the Post the prisoner's statement was new to them.

"We disagree with any implication that Freddie Gray severed his own spinal cord," Downs said. "We question the accuracy of the police reports we’ve seen thus far, including the police report that says Mr. Gray was arrested without force or incident."

While the timeline of Gray’s arrest remains incomplete, Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony Batts said that before the second prisoner was loaded into the van, an officer had to “pick [Gray] up off the floor and place him on the seat.” Police said he asked for medical attention at this point. He had earlier been placed in leg irons after an officer felt he was becoming "irate," police said.

Police also admitted Gray was handcuffed but not secured with a seat belt while being transported

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/30/doubts-freddie-gray-injured-himself_n_7177356.html

We're saying that a second prisoner was added to a separate section of a van after the events of the arrest and after a 25 minute drive and that in those five minutes, he heard a guy who we know from later facts is in the process of dying from a severed spinal cord and breathing problems, he heard the guy banging?

What ON EARTH do you suppose might be the explanation?
Maybe he's desperate for help and having trouble breathing!

 

[Tinark]

For the last time: Gray broke no law, and did not resist arrest. What about this is so hard for some of you to understand?

Your words are falling on deaf ears - the blame the victim crowd has a compulsive need to invent things out of whole cloth to make it the victim's fault.

I'm still open to the possibility that it was no one's fault, that it was just a freak accident, but the initial facts of the situation do not look good. The search and arrest of Freddie was already illegal since running is not a crime.

 

[Granite]

Your words are falling on deaf ears - the blame the victim crowd has a compulsive need to invent things out of whole cloth to make it the victim's fault.

I'm still open to the possibility that it was no one's fault, that it was just a freak accident, but the initial facts of the situation do not look good. The search and arrest of Freddie was already illegal since running is not a crime.

The same sorts of people who warned about UN peacekeepers taking over this country, same sorts of people screeching about military exercises in Texas, the same black helicopter NWO jack-booted thug crowd...these same people look at Freddie Gray and see a guy who deserved what he got.

The implication's that if the police get their hands on you, even for no good reason, they're fully within their rights to kill you.

 

[Tinark]

Now it appears the police lied about the van timeline as new evidence has come to light from a video the police didn't know existed about an additional stop which was omitted from all their reports:

Police have handed their Freddie Gray investigative files over to prosecutors a day earlier than planned, police officials said Thursday, adding that newly discovered evidence in the case indicates the transport van made a previously unreported stop before delivering Gray to the precinct.

...

Officials said they only learned about the stop from a private video taken along the van's route.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/30/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-death-investigation/index.html

Let me guess, they stopped to buy him milk and cookies, but the thug decided to use his black hulk superpowers to try to escape and attack the officers.

 

[Rusha]

these same people look at Freddie Gray and see a guy who deserved what he got.

FTR, I don't don't see Freddie Gray as a guy *who got what he deserved*. Even with his long rap sheet, IMO, there is nothing to indicate the guy was the type of violent offender who should have been behind bars indefinitely OR worthy of the DP.

I simply want more info before making a determination. Seeing him as foolish for running away like he had something to hide is not the same as believing he deserved to die.

 

[Granite]

I simply want more info before making a determination.

How much more info and about what are you looking for?

Seeing him as foolish for running away

Possibly, yes. Or maybe he just didn't want to get screwed around one more time. I can't exactly blame him for that. Would you blame a kid from running from his bully? Because I see that as what happened here.

He had nothing to hide--the Baltimore PD didn't even bother claiming he was carrying drugs or a weapon (just a pocketknife of legal size). So he didn't run because he had something to hide. He ran because he had every reason to dread law enforcement, and they proved him entirely right.

 

[Rusha]

How much more info and about what are you looking for?

Expert testimony of how such an injury might or would occur. Medical documentation that shows he had no previous injury.
An actual witness without an agenda.

Possibly, yes. Or maybe he just didn't want to get screwed around one more time.

I am not understanding the "get screwed around one more time" bit, Granite. Do you have any reason to believe that his long history of arrests and convictions are not legitimate?

I can't exactly blame him for that. Would you blame a kid from running from his bully? Because I see that as what happened here.

I see a young man who was in fear of going to jail. That doesn't mean "go to jail for nothing". I am thinking he was either guilty of something or paranoid.

He had nothing to hide--the Baltimore PD didn't even bother claiming he was carrying drugs or a weapon (just a pocketknife of legal size). So he didn't run because he had something to hide. He ran because he had every reason to dread law enforcement, and they proved him entirely right.

How would anyone expect an authority figure to know he is running "because he had nothing to hide"?

It's possible someone who was innocent (this time) reacted as a guilty person would react.

 

[Tinark]

Expert testimony of how such an injury might or would occur. Medical documentation that shows he had no previous injury.
An actual witness without an agenda.



I am not understanding the "get screwed around one more time" bit, Granite. Do you have any reason to believe that his long history of arrests and convictions are not legitimate?



I see a young man who was in fear of going to jail. That doesn't mean "go to jail for nothing". I am thinking he was either guilty of something or paranoid.



How would anyone expect an authority figure to know he is running "because he had nothing to hide"?

It's possible someone who was innocent (this time) reacted as a guilty person would react.

His rap sheet consisted almost entirely of petty non-violent drug related offenses, which has absolutely no bearing on whether the police are allowed to conduct an illegal search or arrest.