Creation vs. Evolution

[DavisBJ]

What is the big deal? You date things by watching how one-millionth of a sample of crap ages. Well, that would depend on how many flies there were eating it as the years went by. Now your one-millionth sample that you are watching is not touched by any flies, because you've got it protected from all of the variables and occurrences that could happen after one million years. You also do not count for the crap losing it's content of water/moisture or gaining water. You do not account for oxygen/air, or other gases, aging it also. And where, some of the things you date, don't even have air for all you know. I'm just saying DavisBJ, that there are a lot of instances/variables and I would not trust that type of dating. I think it's lousy. Oh, I don't have the knowledge like you to know any better, eh?

Contamination, original chemical composition of the sample. chemical reactivity, etc. - all covered in the first few weeks of study. Go buy and read a "Radiological Dating for Dummies" book, since you seem to be resistant to actually learning how it is done.

Not precisely. All that God wants of you is to listen to Him for your own good, just like a child is taught not to cross the street because it's unsafe and could result in death. He doesn't have rules for nothing. Parents have rules too. He's raising you whether you're an adult or not. So there are rules so that you don't perish. But it looks like you don't care if you perish or not, because you are playing games with God and you are in your own little world, like few on Earth, disbelieving in your Creator. Don't be a liar. You are just too far gone and out of your mind. There's simply no excuse for it all.

I'm Sorry That That Is How You Feel!!

And yet you refuse to address the issue that for me to buy into your concept of God would be a serious act of personal and public deception on my part.

 

[Kdall]

Well first of all, I think Carbon-14 dating is ineffective. Anything with a half-life of a ten thousand years is a bummer. How are you ever going to test your half-life methods if you never are able to live to their half-lives? And then you find out you dated it wrong again. Carbon-14 dating has already been proven ineffective. If science can't date something because it is old, then fine!! You don't have to devise inoperable methods of dating if you can't. I believe the Universe and Earth are under 8,000 years old. And I believe in the Shroud of Turin also, despite their dating of it. Man is too fallible to trust him. God spoke the Universe and Earth into existence. So why must you fight to date it??

So, you don't say much about what you're going to do if you find Jesus' Returning nipping your heels at your doorstep. Why did you err on the side of 'science' instead of God? You really blew it. You're screwed either way. Yes, I believe very strongly that Armageddon will occur before the end of this year. Is that a problem? It is for you. If I were you, I'd fix things before you are TOO late. Don't be incredibly foolish. Now I'm not calling you a fool. Just saying, avoid it. It's your soul on the line, you know. Don't screw up dude!!

God Be With You If You'll Let Him,

Michael

P.S. He has plenty of room to forgive you, if you'd give Him a chance.

:cloud9: :angel:

Michael I see that you've gotten into a more contentious exchange than usual. I'm not going to insult you for believing in what you will, but you seem to be advocating belief in a strict interpretation of Biblical creation is some sort of ultimatum for anyone who claims to be Christian. I take issue with that, and so would millions of other Christians around the globe.

As you're aware I too believe in God and in the Christian sentiment that Jesus died for humanity's redemption and was resurrected. You also know that I accept science that overwhelmingly points to the universe's extreme age. In fact I think that the Big Bang, evolution, and the like show the complexity and brilliance of God's creation: a constant and infinite system of creation is what we should expect the wisest being in existence to formulate, not the simple and finite account in Genesis. Additionally, "spread out the heavens" sounds like a very good way to refer to cosmic inflation that occurred after the Big Bang event, especially when you consider that it would be two millenia after the authoring of Genesis before the Big Bang/cosmic inflation was first theorized by scientists. "Spread out the heavens" is literally the best possible way BC people could've described such an event given the scientific limitations of the time. If you are indeed saying that belief in a non-literal Genesis is a deal breaker for being saved then that's ridiculous. If I misunderstood you then my mistake.

It bothers me to see you saying incorrect statements like "Carbon-14 has been proven ineffective" when the opposite is reality. If you're going to make strong claims like so, then you are under the burden of producing evidence of said claims. The accuser carries the burden of proof.


On the Shroud of Turin: you're correct that a C-14 test dated it to the 13th century or so, but the reason that isn't necessarily conclusive is the sample tested was a fiber from the edge of the Shroud, and the edges could've been re-woven centuries after its initial creation to replace tattered edges. A test sample from the middle of the Shroud would likely be conclusive on whether it truly is from Jesus' time or not. So it might be authentic. However you shouldn't dismiss the possibility that it isn't simply because you want it to be authentic badly. Forgery of holy relics was big business in the Middle Ages. Hundreds of churches claimed to have pieces of the True Cross, so many that these pieces could've filled a ship. It's perfectly reasonable that the Shroud is also a forgery. Either way it's an incredibly important historical artifact: if it isn't Jesus' burial shroud then it is almost certainly the first photographic negative ever created. Recently researchers showed that a similar image can be produced if cloth is soaked in silver salts and exposed to light through a primitive pinhole camera, then treated with urine.

 

[DavisBJ]

Michael I see that you've gotten into a more contentious exchange than usual. I'm not going to insult you for believing in what you will, but you seem to be advocating belief in a strict interpretation of Biblical creation is some sort of ultimatum for anyone who claims to be Christian. I take issue with that, and so would millions of other Christians around the globe.

As you're aware I too believe in God and in the Christian sentiment that Jesus died for humanity's redemption and was resurrected. You also know that I accept science that overwhelmingly points to the universe's extreme age. In fact I think that the Big Bang, evolution, and the like show the complexity and brilliance of God's creation: a constant and infinite system of creation is what we should expect the wisest being in existence to formulate, not the simple and finite account in Genesis. Additionally, "spread out the heavens" sounds like a very good way to refer to cosmic inflation that occurred after the Big Bang event, especially when you consider that it would be two millenia after the authoring of Genesis before the Big Bang/cosmic inflation was first theorized by scientists. "Spread out the heavens" is literally the best possible way BC people could've described such an event given the scientific limitations of the time. If you are indeed saying that belief in a non-literal Genesis is a deal breaker for being saved then that's ridiculous. If I misunderstood you then my mistake.

It bothers me to see you saying incorrect statements like "Carbon-14 has been proven ineffective" when the opposite is reality. If you're going to make strong claims like so, then you are under the burden of producing evidence of said claims. The accuser carries the burden of proof.


On the Shroud of Turin: you're correct that a C-14 test dated it to the 13th century or so, but the reason that isn't necessarily conclusive is the sample tested was a fiber from the edge of the Shroud, and the edges could've been re-woven centuries after its initial creation to replace tattered edges. A test sample from the middle of the Shroud would likely be conclusive on whether it truly is from Jesus' time or not. So it might be authentic. However you shouldn't dismiss the possibility that it isn't simply because you want it to be authentic badly. Forgery of holy relics was big business in the Middle Ages. Hundreds of churches claimed to have pieces of the True Cross, so many that these pieces could've filled a ship. It's perfectly reasonable that the Shroud is also a forgery. Either way it's an incredibly important historical artifact: if it isn't Jesus' burial shroud then it is almost certainly the first photographic negative ever created. Recently researchers showed that a similar image can be produced if cloth is soaked in silver salts and exposed to light through a primitive pinhole camera, then treated with urine.

It will be interesting to see if Stripe leaves your assertions about the compatibility of the ancient age of the earth and the Biblical creation go unchallenged.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Contamination, original chemical composition of the sample. chemical reactivity, etc. - all covered in the first few weeks of study. Go buy and read a "Radiological Dating for Dummies" book, since you seem to be resistant to actually learning how it is done.

I don't need to buy any book for dummies. Scientists thought carbon dating was fine too, until they realized after many years that it didn't work, so why should I trust them now?

And yet you refuse to address the issue that for me to buy into your concept of God would be a serious act of personal and public deception on my part.

You don't have to believe in the concept of God if you don't want to. I was just trying to help you. I'm sorry if I've gotten upset with you. It just gets frustrating sometimes.

Warmest Regards,

Michael

atrol: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael I see that you've gotten into a more contentious exchange than usual. I'm not going to insult you for believing in what you will, but you seem to be advocating belief in a strict interpretation of Biblical creation is some sort of ultimatum for anyone who claims to be Christian. I take issue with that, and so would millions of other Christians around the globe.

Dear Kdall,

I'm sorry it took a while to get back to you here and I appreciate your patience very much. I realize some Christians also believe in evolution. When I see God, I will ask Him then if the Earth is older than 7,000 years and see what He tells me. But til then, I have to go with what the Bible says. By doing this, I am safe and saved.

As you're aware I too believe in God and in the Christian sentiment that Jesus died for humanity's redemption and was resurrected. You also know that I accept science that overwhelmingly points to the universe's extreme age. In fact I think that the Big Bang, evolution, and the like show the complexity and brilliance of God's creation: a constant and infinite system of creation is what we should expect the wisest being in existence to formulate, not the simple and finite account in Genesis. Additionally, "spread out the heavens" sounds like a very good way to refer to cosmic inflation that occurred after the Big Bang event, especially when you consider that it would be two millenia after the authoring of Genesis before the Big Bang/cosmic inflation was first theorized by scientists. "Spread out the heavens" is literally the best possible way BC people could've described such an event given the scientific limitations of the time. If you are indeed saying that belief in a non-literal Genesis is a deal breaker for being saved then that's ridiculous. If I misunderstood you then my mistake.

Kdall, I believe that the Universe and the Earth were created a few days before our Adam. Now whether the Big Bang happened 7,000 ago, I do not know. It could have been expanding or stretching for the past 7,000 years for all I know. But that would have to do it for me. That's a long time to stretch, don't you think?

It bothers me to see you saying incorrect statements like "Carbon-14 has been proven ineffective" when the opposite is reality. If you're going to make strong claims like so, then you are under the burden of producing evidence of said claims. The accuser carries the burden of proof.

Our evolutionist friends here will confirm that C-14 dating method is no good for dating things that are very old. It is limited, they have discovered. If you really need me to find the information, I can. Just type 'c14 dating accuracy' into your browser. You will learn some astounding things about carbon dating. They have other ways of dating now, but I don't trust those either. I think man hasn't devised a clock yet that can date old things. All of these billions of years for an age of the Universe, and a star in the distance, etc., I don't believe it took a million years. Do these scientists actually realize how long that time is? I think they just slap an old, old age on the things and deceive people. How do they measure the age of a distant galaxy? Get a load of that!!

On the Shroud of Turin: you're correct that a C-14 test dated it to the 13th century or so, but the reason that isn't necessarily conclusive is the sample tested was a fiber from the edge of the Shroud, and the edges could've been re-woven centuries after its initial creation to replace tattered edges. A test sample from the middle of the Shroud would likely be conclusive on whether it truly is from Jesus' time or not. So it might be authentic. However you shouldn't dismiss the possibility that it isn't simply because you want it to be authentic badly. Forgery of holy relics was big business in the Middle Ages. Hundreds of churches claimed to have pieces of the True Cross, so many that these pieces could've filled a ship. It's perfectly reasonable that the Shroud is also a forgery. Either way it's an incredibly important historical artifact: if it isn't Jesus' burial shroud then it is almost certainly the first photographic negative ever created. Recently researchers showed that a similar image can be produced if cloth is soaked in silver salts and exposed to light through a primitive pinhole camera, then treated with urine.

Kdall, I do believe that it was Jesus' shroud. I believe the image occurred on it because of the surge of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Life and Energy from God entering again into Jesus' body, and causing the image on the Shroud. I've always believed that.

Well, buddy, thanks again for being so patient. Thanks for your posts here to seek the truth about all of God's creations.

In His Name And Love,

Michael

:angel: :guitar:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

Please see the following quote:


"Carbon dating relies on the hypothesis that the date of decay for the element carbon-14 is constant and has remained throughout time. However, this may not be the case and there is evidence to support the opposite case. Using iron-57 and isotopes of uranium-238 experiments have demonstrated that rates of decay not only can vary, they do. Even changing environmental conditions can alter rates of decay.

Carbon dating relies on the assumption that carbon-14 formation remained constant over the years. However, we know that carbon-12 formation was changed by human intervention. The industrial revolution increased carbon-12 concentrations. There is reason to believe that atomic bomb testing carried out in the 1950s may not only have increased neutrons in the surrounding area, but worldwide, causing a change in carbon-14 concentrations. Some scientists now believe that a worldwide flood did occur (similar to the one mentioned in countless religious texts). This would have impacted vegetation and impacted at least carbon-12 and perhaps carbon-14."

www.scienceforums.net › Sciences › Physics


Please tell me what you think. Do you understand this? This alludes to a worldwide flood also. How can I trust iron-57 or uranium-238 dating for sure also. Who is to say it will not be proven wrong later on down the line??

God Grant You Serenity And Much Love,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

And there were hundreds of thousands of PhD scientists that finally realized that Noah's warnings were true when the Ark set out to sea.

everready

Dear everready,

I'm sorry to take so long to get back to you. I just remembered this post. It is quite short, so I think that's how it got lost in the shuffle. I do understand the reasoning you are using in what you said, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's written in the Bible that there will be a plague of hail at the end of Armageddon in which each hailstone will be about the weight of a talent. And men blasphemed God because of the hail, for it was exceedingly great. See Rev. 16:21. A talent back then weighed much more.

Will chat with you more soon if you would write a bit more each time.

Tons Of God's Blessings And Love!!

Michael

:cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Originally Posted To Heir:


It's not hard to read and believe 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

"There is only One God, the Father. To Him does all Higher Praise belong. There is no need to, but He is greater than the Son. Jesus would have you believe the same way. Jesus said no one is good, but God in Heaven. He said 'worship God.' He also said, not to blaspheme the Holy Ghost or it shall not be forgiven you. So He puts the Holy Ghost above Him. I would have to say to revere the Holy Ghost first, then God most, and then Jesus. Jesus is humble indeed and would probably have it no other way. I would have to say that I believe it is the Holy Ghost/Spirit that is in God. But I will not say for sure, because I don't want to blaspheme the Holy Ghost and be unforgiven and in jeopardy. I rarely speak of the Holy Ghost because I don't want to lie falsely about Him/It. I do know that I was visited by the Holy Ghost three times and it is the most wonderful feeling I've ever had in my life's experiences. It is just awesome and you can feel the intense strong exhilaration of it when it rushes into your left ear and into your body, mind, and soul, and teaches you things in a minute that would otherwise take many hours and days. I do appreciate what It teaches, but the FEELING it gives you is paramount to anything else that I've ever experienced. I know of all of these people who say they already have been visited by the Holy Spirit, but they all do not KNOW what they are talking about. They've never been visited by the Holy Spirit. They may have some of God's Spirit within them, of course. All things alive have that, or they wouldn't be alive. God gives life. Even in the rocks there is life. I know about all of the verses saying Jesus is the Word, and Jesus is the Mighty God, but that's because the Mighty God's spirit was within Him when He was on Earth. Okay, this will have to do for now. Don't argue among yourselves. Just chat instead."

God Bless Your Hearts And Souls!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Just A Note For This Thread, Just So You Know:

Possibly in Hell {center of the Earth}, but not in the Lake of Fire {our Sun}. In Hell, there is magma and lava, very hot. But in our Sun it is even hotter by far, with sulfur, hydrogen, and helium, I believe. Few will be sent to the latter's fate. Very few. God is more forgiving and accommodating than you really know yet. But He will refine each soul with His fire or with Hell fire, if necessary. It definitely depends on what your sins are. God is merciful, but it is written that the beast and false prophet, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Also those who received the mark of the beast {only six hundread and sixty six other people}. And lastly, Satan the devil, is finally thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Second Death. For death and Hell gave up those who were in them. And those whose name was not found written in the Book of Life were thrown into the lake of fire. This could be like Hitler or Mussolini, or Charles Manson, the Ayatollah, etc. I am not a judge. God is.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

There is a post for you {#8427}above with some questions. If you can't answer the questions, I will understand. Perhaps DavisBJ will be able to help. Let me know, dude!!

God Bless You Always With An Excellent Life!!

Michael

 

[noguru]

It will be interesting to see if Stripe leaves your assertions about the compatibility of the ancient age of the earth and the Biblical creation go unchallenged.

Stripe is an arrogant moron who thinks that being stubbornly wrong makes him strong/tough. Michael is a lackadaisical soft minded nit wit.

 

[Stuu]

Dear 6days,

Please see the following quote:

"Carbon dating relies on the hypothesis that the date of decay for the element carbon-14 is constant and has remained throughout time. However, this may not be the case and there is evidence to support the opposite case. Using iron-57 and isotopes of uranium-238 experiments have demonstrated that rates of decay not only can vary, they do. Even changing environmental conditions can alter rates of decay."

Please explain carefully what you mean, and how this would apply to 14-C dating.

Carbon dating relies on the assumption that carbon-14 formation remained constant over the years. However, we know that carbon-12 formation was changed by human intervention. The industrial revolution increased carbon-12 concentrations. There is reason to believe that atomic bomb testing carried out in the 1950s may not only have increased neutrons in the surrounding area, but worldwide, causing a change in carbon-14 concentrations.

We do know about these things and they are taken into account in the calibration of 14-C dating, which can be calibrated directly using dendrochronology.

Some scientists now believe that a worldwide flood did occur (similar to the one mentioned in countless religious texts). This would have impacted vegetation and impacted at least carbon-12 and perhaps carbon-14."

Would it indeed.

Do tell us how. I'm sure we'd love to learn.

Stuart

 

[MichaelCadry]

Stripe is an arrogant moron who thinks that being stubbornly wrong makes him strong/tough. Michael is a lackadaisical soft minded nit wit.

Dear noguru,

Wonderful to hear from you!! It's been a while. Stripe is not an arrogant moron. Every person has their own personalities, if you didn't know that by now, young man. Now, me, I am a very sound-minded human being and can definitely hold my own. All without getting banned from TOL. I'm such a nit wit that God said to me, "Why'd I pick you?" Some day soon, noguru, you'll find out why He picked me. Because my loyalty and faith are extremely strong. I have to have that because I'm fighting Satan all the time and all the way. He is so afraid of losing and spending eternity burning. His wrath is horrid and incorrigible {See Rev. 12:12}. But nevertheless, it is written by God, so it shall not come back to Him undone. If I can fight Satan/dragons, what makes you think that you are a contender?

God Watch Over Your Heart & Soul,

Michael

:cloud9: :guitar: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Please explain carefully what you mean, and how this would apply to 14-C dating.


We do know about these things and they are taken into account in the calibration of 14-C dating, which can be calibrated directly using dendrochronology.


Would it indeed.

Do tell us how. I'm sure we'd love to learn.

Stuart

Well, Dear Stuart,

I saw you were back and I wanted to post to you very much, 'cause I've missed you. What is going on is that Carbon-14 dating is not reliable. So I am wondering how the iron-57 or uranium-238 are going to be applied to test the Carbon-14 dating reliability. How can we, in the future, know if iron-57 or uranium-238 are any more reliable than C-14 dating?? If one can be screwed up, it would not surprise me if they are all flawed methods of dating. And what about this worldwide flood causing part of the problem with the C-14 dating? Can we overlook that in the slightest? My heart goes out to you.

Many Good Blessings,

Michael

 

[Stuu]

I saw you were back and I wanted to post to you very much, 'cause I've missed you.

A kind sentiment.

What is going on is that Carbon-14 dating is not reliable. So I am wondering how the iron-57 or uranium-238 are going to be applied to test the Carbon-14 dating reliability. How can we, in the future, know if iron-57 or uranium-238 are any more reliable than C-14 dating?? If one can be screwed up, it would not surprise me if they are all flawed methods of dating. And what about this worldwide flood causing part of the problem with the C-14 dating? Can we overlook that in the slightest? My heart goes out to you.

Right, so you haven't got anything valid to say that should cause me to pause for thought. Just a load of hot air, as if I had written a couple of paragraphs about the problems the Arians had at the Council of Nicaea, without doing any research.

Stuart

 

[alwight]

Dear noguru,

Wonderful to hear from you!! It's been a while. Stripe is not an arrogant moron. Every person has their own personalities, if you didn't know that by now, young man. Now, me, I am a very sound-minded human being and can definitely hold my own. All without getting banned from TOL.

I think it's highly unlikely that someone like you Michael would ever get banned from TOL without a complete personality change.
You clearly like to talk to other people and wouldn't dream of gratuitously seeking to have them banned simply because they don't share your beliefs, right?
Stripe otoh will arrogantly assume that all those who don't share his Christian fundamentalism are thereby wrong and that trolling is their only purpose, whatever in fact they do say.
Stripe is an arrogant moron imo who will gladly utilise the built in biases of TOL to have infractions handed out any time he can, knowing full well that there is little chance of his own trolling and name calling ever receiving similar penalties. lain:

 

[noguru]

Dear noguru,

Wonderful to hear from you!! It's been a while. Stripe is not an arrogant moron. Every person has their own personalities,

His personality is that of an arrogant moron.

Now, me, I am a very sound-minded human being and can definitely hold my own.

:rotfl:

Hold your own in what regard? Who is the judge of that?

All without getting banned from TOL. I'm such a nit wit that God said to me, "Why'd I pick you?"

As I have said, I am not concerned when they ban me for speaking the truth. Simply because they are afraid of the truth.

When I first came to this site it was popular for the popular people to refer to themselves as "truth smackers' and that they were "truth smacking" all who disagreed. That was the biggest load of codswallop I have seen. All they did was use sophistry to undermine science, clear logic and reason, and bring confusion to people. Then erect them selves (their "unified" group think, through their superficial lip service to Christianity, headed by Bob Enyart), in the midst of the chaos, as the sole arbiters of reality. They were/are tyrants and despots. Not humble, honest, truth seeking humans with compassion, integrity and courage.

Some day soon, noguru, you'll find out why He picked me. Because my loyalty and faith are extremely strong. I have to have that because I'm fighting Satan all the time and all the way.

What proof do you have that God picked you? Or are we just suppose to take your word for that?

I think you are fighting yourself, not Satan. But in your delusion you would rather believe your adversary is a supernatural being and not your own doing.

He is so afraid of losing and spending eternity burning.

Satan knows he has lost. It is absurd to expect a supernatural being with such powers to not know the reality that he cannot win.

His wrath is horrid and incorrigible {See Rev. 12:12}. But nevertheless, it is written by God, so it shall not come back to Him undone. If I can fight Satan/dragons, what makes you think that you are a contender?

I think you are projecting your own sentiments upon Satan.

I do not fight Satan. I clean up my side of the street, and I see that Satan is not there.

 

[noguru]

Stripe is an arrogant moron imo who will gladly utilise the built in biases of TOL to have infractions handed out any time he can, knowing full well that there is little chance of his own trolling and name calling ever receiving similar penalties. lain:

Be careful, Satan's minions are watching. :shut:

 

[alwight]

Be careful, Satan's minions are watching. :shut:

Yes we'd better keep my opinion of Stripe a secret then.

 

[Sherman]

I think it's highly unlikely that someone like you Michael would ever get banned from TOL without a complete personality change.
You clearly like to talk to other people and wouldn't dream of gratuitously seeking to have them banned simply because they don't share your beliefs, right?
Stripe otoh will arrogantly assume that all those who don't share his Christian fundamentalism are thereby wrong and that trolling is their only purpose, whatever in fact they do say.
Stripe is an arrogant moron imo who will gladly utilise the built in biases of TOL to have infractions handed out any time he can, knowing full well that there is little chance of his own trolling and name calling ever receiving similar penalties. lain:

Then why did you join TOL is you did like the bias here? Not every report produces an infraction. Fortunately for you, whining isn't necessarily against the rules.