Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Alwight,

Hey Mate!! Hope you are doing fine lately! It's been a while. Things in my life are going just wonderful!! I will tell you more in a PM. So Alwight, why must we believe that bones or fossils are over 8,000 years old, when it is likely that they are not? Who said this was 3 billion years old and that was 4.5 million years old? Is someone being a bit melodramatic? I really don't trust whoever is in charge of these dating methods at ALL!! They base a lot of things on half-lives, which doesn't really fly with me. The half-lives are still so old that they need more and more half-lives to even live one of our lives. Do you know what I'm saying here. I mean, Al, who is to say that our Sun is not 7,000 years old. Does it look older or younger? If it fizzled out or exploded in 3,000 years, would that be far-fetched? And other stars in the Universe. How do we 'assume' their age without someone guessing at it? I think someone had too much Vodka with their presumptions. Thank God you can't smell it on their breath. Are they trying to date them using a color spectrum or something.

Well, I want to talk with you about other things. Will PM you right away.

Best Of Wishes And Cheerio!!

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

... why must we believe that bones or fossils are over 8,000 years old, when it is likely that they are not? Who said this was 3 billion years old and that was 4.5 million years old? Is someone being a bit melodramatic? I really don't trust whoever is in charge of these dating methods at ALL!! They base a lot of things on half-lives, which doesn't really fly with me. The half-lives are still so old that they need more and more half-lives to even live one of our lives. Do you know what I'm saying here. I mean, Al, who is to say that our Sun is not 7,000 years old. Does it look older or younger? If it fizzled out or exploded in 3,000 years, would that be far-fetched? And other stars in the Universe. How do we 'assume' their age without someone guessing at it? I think someone had too much Vodka with their presumptions. Thank God you can't smell it on their breath. Are they trying to date them using a color spectrum or something. ...

Michael

Michael, long ago at TOL you demonstrated very clearly that your understanding of science is almost non-existent. You declare over and over that you are bringing a message of warning of the impending end of this world. But then when you spout scientific blather like you just did, you effectively label yourself as someone whose ideas aren't worth a second glance.

You would do your cause a great service by sincerely asking questions about the science, rationally discussing it, and honestly understanding it before embarrassing yourself again. And Cusper seconds my delivering this message to you.

 

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

Hey Mate!! Hope you are doing fine lately! It's been a while. Things in my life are going just wonderful!! I will tell you more in a PM. So Alwight, why must we believe that bones or fossils are over 8,000 years old, when it is likely that they are not? Who said this was 3 billion years old and that was 4.5 million years old? Is someone being a bit melodramatic? I really don't trust whoever is in charge of these dating methods at ALL!! They base a lot of things on half-lives, which doesn't really fly with me. The half-lives are still so old that they need more and more half-lives to even live one of our lives. Do you know what I'm saying here. I mean, Al, who is to say that our Sun is not 7,000 years old. Does it look older or younger? If it fizzled out or exploded in 3,000 years, would that be far-fetched? And other stars in the Universe. How do we 'assume' their age without someone guessing at it? I think someone had too much Vodka with their presumptions. Thank God you can't smell it on their breath. Are they trying to date them using a color spectrum or something.

Well, I want to talk with you about other things. Will PM you right away.

Best Of Wishes And Cheerio!!

Michael

I responded in a PM Michael, it doesn't really belong here.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, long ago at TOL you demonstrated very clearly that your understanding of science is almost non-existent. You declare over and over that you are bringing a message of warning of the impending end of this world. But then when you spout scientific blather like you just did, you effectively label yourself as someone whose ideas aren't worth a second glance.

You would do your cause a great service by sincerely asking questions about the science, rationally discussing it, and honestly understanding it before embarrassing yourself again. And Cusper seconds my delivering this message to you.

Dear DavisBJ,

You are a real dud! I don't remember my knowledge of science being inadequate. I had courses in Chemistry, Biology, Human Physiology, some Astronomy, and basic science. I was going to be a doctor. I was just trying to be funny, is all. Excuse me! And you only wish that the impending end of the world was not happening soon. It is not the end of the world. One-third of the Earth's people shall inherit the Earth. And they shall call Him God. And He shall call them His Children. Don't you know that it is written, for 2/3 of the inhabitants of the Earth shall be cut off and die, but I will bring a third part through the fire and refine them as silver, etc. It is a big change in the world. You all don't get it. I don't feel in the slightest bit embarrassed about anything I've said here. Your words just roll off my back. I know more about your Science than you do about my Christianity, as a matter of fact. You are at a COMPLETE loss about God or Creation, or what the prophets say, or Revelation, period. I would not want to trade places with you, ever!! Not in the slightest! I am so blessed to have the Bible and God, and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost in my life. A visit from the Holy Ghost is awesome. You'll never know the feeling, I guess. It's like a extremely strong exhilaration of the spirit in the soul, and you learn tons of things in just an instant. It is so cool that I would pay millions of dollars just for One Visit, except I don't have the money. It's happened to me 3 times in my life, so I am so joyful about it. You, DavisBJ, are missing out on the Excellence of Him and you don't even know it. Who is greater than God and who can compare to Him!! Certainly nothing in your life, BJ. You have to go through your whole life without a God to pray to or to love you. What an existence. Perhaps something will happen in your life to change all of that.

Are you just upset because Science's dating methods leave much to desire?

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear DavisBJ,

You are a real dud! I don't remember my knowledge of science being inadequate. I had courses in Chemistry, Biology, Human Physiology, some Astronomy, and basic science. I was going to be a doctor. I was just trying to be funny, is all. Excuse me! And you only wish that the impending end of the world was not happening soon. It is not the end of the world. One-third of the Earth's people shall inherit the Earth. And they shall call Him God. And He shall call them His Children. Don't you know that it is written, for 2/3 of the inhabitants of the Earth shall be cut off and die, but I will bring a third part through the fire and refine them as silver, etc. It is a big change in the world. You all don't get it. I don't feel in the slightest bit embarrassed about anything I've said here. Your words just roll off my back. I know more about your Science than you do about my Christianity, as a matter of fact. You are at a COMPLETE loss about God or Creation, or what the prophets say, or Revelation, period. I would not want to trade places with you, ever!! Not in the slightest! I am so blessed to have the Bible and God, and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost in my life. A visit from the Holy Ghost is awesome. You'll never know the feeling, I guess. It's like a extremely strong exhilaration of the spirit in the soul, and you learn tons of things in just an instant. It is so cool that I would pay millions of dollars just for One Visit, except I don't have the money. It's happened to me 3 times in my life, so I am so joyful about it. You, DavisBJ, are missing out on the Excellence of Him and you don't even know it. Who is greater than God and who can compare to Him!! Certainly nothing in your life, BJ. You have to go through your whole life without a God to pray to or to love you. What an existence. Perhaps something will happen in your life to change all of that.

Are you just upset because Science's dating methods leave much to desire?

Michael

I guess you are one of those people who, intellectually and morally, are dancing naked on the stage, and proud of it.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I guess you are one of those people who, intellectually and morally, are dancing naked on the stage, and proud of it.

I guess that you are just at a loss for words because you know nothing about God or Christianity, or Jesus or the Holy Ghost. So you resort to stupid sentences. I'm clothed in the raiment of God's armor and yes, I am proud of it. I wish you had chose it for yourself too. You MUST realize there is a power above us which causes all of these things to happen. Do you know that your circulatory system (w/nervous system) is so long it could circle this Earth twice? That's for each woman or man. Do you think that just happened on its own or was it Created?? It was created by Our Father in Heaven. You are at a far greater loss than you realize.

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

I guess that you are just at a loss for words because you know nothing about God or Christianity, or Jesus or the Holy Ghost. So you resort to stupid sentences. I'm clothed in the raiment of God's armor and yes, I am proud of it. I wish you had chose it for yourself too. You MUST realize there is a power above us which causes all of these things to happen. Do you know that your circulatory system (w/nervous system) is so long it could circle this Earth twice? That's for each woman or man. Do you think that just happened on its own or was it Created?? It was created by Our Father in Heaven. You are at a far greater loss than you realize.

Michael

Michael’s reasoning process: WOW, therefore God.

 

[MichaelCadry]

DavisBJ,

You are very inadequate in your responses to my posts. I posted quite a bit in Post #8405 and Post #8507, and your response was quite a lame one-liner both times. I don't think you know what to say, because you have nothing better to say or any strong argument to answer back with. You are too much! "Dancing naked on a stage?!!" "Wow, God?!!" Give me a break!!

Michael

 

[6days]

Michael’s reasoning process: WOW, therefore God.

As a believer..."WOW" is enough.
We believe... We worship.

(Likewise, 'WOW...evolution did it' is a typical atheist response)

For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Rom. 1:20

BTW... 'Goddidit'...or 'Evolution did it' does not have to be the end of the story. Knowing, God created with purpose and design has resulted in many scientific discoveries... (and was largely responsible for the birth of modern science)

 

[DavisBJ]

DavisBJ,

You are very inadequate in your responses to my posts. I posted quite a bit in Post #8405 and Post #8507, and your response was quite a lame one-liner both times. I don't think you know what to say, because you have nothing better to say or any strong argument to answer back with….
Michael

My short posts were quite intentional. I am not inclined to spend much time responding to posts that are essentially bereft of meaningful substance.

I have said this before, but to reiterate, I had a deep involvement in Christianity for years. I have read the Bible intently, studied it doctrinally, read it from page one to page last, I have a number of English translations, study guides, etc. I have read your “book” you long ago promised to stop promoting in this thread (and then repeatedly violated that promise). If your God exists, ignorance is not an excuse I will be able to hide behind.

But understanding of matters religious bothers me not at all. I am confident that your God, right along with a thousand others, is the product of your own insecurities and need for answers to mysteries of life.

In spite of your protestations otherwise, I have seen nothing that indicates to me that you have even a modicum of understanding of many of the scientific disciplines you claim to know. But, I will humor you just once more. You said:

Dear DavisBJ,
… Are you just upset because Science's dating methods leave much to desire? …

Hey, I think it would be neat if I had some magic goggles that I could put on that would display the eon, millennia, century, decade, year, month, week, date, day of the week, hour, minute, and second a fossil was buried. But even without such silliness, science has a pretty good handle on a number of methods of dating that reach back tens of thousands times farther than your creation tale from those ancient shepherds. So … what, specifically, is the scientific lack in dating methods that you are alluding to that “leave(s) much to desire”? (Either clearly identify some scientific deficiency, or else show that you are just a great pretender when it comes to science.)

 

[DavisBJ]

As a believer..."WOW" is enough.
We believe... We worship.

As do believers in faiths that are wildly at variance with yours. If being really impressed by something is all it takes to convince you, then there are hundreds of WOW events that could (and some have) served equally well for the formation of cockamamie beliefs.

(Likewise, 'WOW...evolution did it' is a typical atheist response)

I will attribute this statement to an ill-advised need to take a jab at evolution. It was the recognition (first clearly articulated by Darwin) that small sequential natural steps over vast periods of time can give the appearance of a miracle – thousands of forms of life. But I wonder, do you have specific examples where major proponents of evolutionary theory have resorted to “WOW” type explanations?

… Knowing, God created with purpose and design has resulted in many scientific discoveries...

Such as?

… (and was largely responsible for the birth of modern science)

And, like most children as they mature after their birth, “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” Evolution, and the age of the earth, is accepted by hundreds of thousands of PhD scientists who have recognized that it is time to put away childish beliefs.

 

[everready]

As do believers in faiths that are wildly at variance with yours. If being really impressed by something is all it takes to convince you, then there are hundreds of WOW events that could (and some have) served equally well for the formation of cockamamie beliefs.

I will attribute this statement to an ill-advised need to take a jab at evolution. It was the recognition (first clearly articulated by Darwin) that small sequential natural steps over vast periods of time can give the appearance of a miracle – thousands of forms of life. But I wonder, do you have specific examples where major proponents of evolutionary theory have resorted to “WOW” type explanations?

Such as?

And, like most children as they mature after their birth, “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” Evolution, and the age of the earth, is accepted by hundreds of thousands of PhD scientists who have recognized that it is time to put away childish beliefs.

And there were hundreds of thousands of PhD scientists that finally realized that Noah's warnings were true when the Ark set out to sea.


everready

 

[MichaelCadry]

My short posts were quite intentional. I am not inclined to spend much time responding to posts that are essentially bereft of meaningful substance.

I have said this before, but to reiterate, I had a deep involvement in Christianity for years. I have read the Bible intently, studied it doctrinally, read it from page one to page last, I have a number of English translations, study guides, etc. I have read your “book” you long ago promised to stop promoting in this thread (and then repeatedly violated that promise). If your God exists, ignorance is not an excuse I will be able to hide behind.

But understanding of matters religious bothers me not at all. I am confident that your God, right along with a thousand others, is the product of your own insecurities and need for answers to mysteries of life.

In spite of your protestations otherwise, I have seen nothing that indicates to me that you have even a modicum of understanding of many of the scientific disciplines you claim to know. But, I will humor you just once more. You said:

Hey, I think it would be neat if I had some magic goggles that I could put on that would display the eon, millennia, century, decade, year, month, week, date, day of the week, hour, minute, and second a fossil was buried. But even without such silliness, science has a pretty good handle on a number of methods of dating that reach back tens of thousands times farther than your creation tale from those ancient shepherds. So … what, specifically, is the scientific lack in dating methods that you are alluding to that “leave(s) much to desire”? (Either clearly identify some scientific deficiency, or else show that you are just a great pretender when it comes to science.)

Well first of all, I think Carbon-14 dating is ineffective. Anything with a half-life of a ten thousand years is a bummer. How are you ever going to test your half-life methods if you never are able to live to their half-lives? And then you find out you dated it wrong again. Carbon-14 dating has already been proven ineffective. If science can't date something because it is old, then fine!! You don't have to devise inoperable methods of dating if you can't. I believe the Universe and Earth are under 8,000 years old. And I believe in the Shroud of Turin also, despite their dating of it. Man is too fallible to trust him. God spoke the Universe and Earth into existence. So why must you fight to date it??

So, you don't say much about what you're going to do if you find Jesus' Returning nipping your heels at your doorstep. Why did you err on the side of 'science' instead of God? You really blew it. You're screwed either way. Yes, I believe very strongly that Armageddon will occur before the end of this year. Is that a problem? It is for you. If I were you, I'd fix things before you are TOO late. Don't be incredibly foolish. Now I'm not calling you a fool. Just saying, avoid it. It's your soul on the line, you know. Don't screw up dude!!

God Be With You If You'll Let Him,

Michael

P.S. He has plenty of room to forgive you, if you'd give Him a chance.

:cloud9: :angel:

 

[Stripe]

:mock: suckers who start conversations with Cadry.

 

[DavisBJ]

Thanks for the reply, Michael. It is, as I expected, a pretty clear demonstration that you know very little of the science behind radioactive dating. Let me focus on just one bit of the silliness you offered. You said:

… How are you ever going to test your half-life methods if you never are able to live to their half-lives?

If I were to give that question to some college students who were just a few weeks into a class dealing with radioactive dating, I would encourage those students who couldn’t answer to change their field of study to making paper dolls.

Half-life is the time it takes for half of the radioactive atoms in a sample to decay. Mathematically it can be expressed as a simple equation involving an exponential. But here’s the secret – the equation works for any length of time of radioactive sample decay – whether it is time for half of the sample to decay, or the time for 1% of the sample to decay, or 99% of the sample to decay, or one-millionth of the sample to decay. I have, sitting 4 feet from me right now, a sample where I can watch (and measure, were I inclined to do so) the decay of material with a half-life of several billion years. By knowing the molar amount of sample I have, and observing the decay rate, I can accurately measure and compute the half-life, even though my observations are measured in minutes.

The rest of what you offer in the way of a critique on radioactive dating is no more credible than your amateurish half-life comment, so I will not further waste time trying to raise your scientific knowledge above the kindergarten level.

… P.S. He has plenty of room to forgive you, if you'd give Him a chance.

Forgive me for what? For honestly understanding how nature works, and for putting aside fables that are at variance with nature? Is that the kind of God you worship, who wants slavish unthinking obeisance, instead of asking for a commitment to moral decency and defense of truth?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Thanks for the reply, Michael. It is, as I expected, a pretty clear demonstration that you know very little of the science behind radioactive dating. Let me focus on just one bit of the silliness you offered. You said:

If I were to give that question to some college students who were just a few weeks into a class dealing with radioactive dating, I would encourage those students who couldn’t answer to change their field of study to making paper dolls.

Half-life is the time it takes for half of the radioactive atoms in a sample to decay. Mathematically it can be expressed as a simple equation involving an exponential. But here’s the secret – the equation works for any length of time of radioactive sample decay – whether it is time for half of the sample to decay, or the time for 1% of the sample to decay, or 99% of the sample to decay, or one-millionth of the sample to decay. I have, sitting 4 feet from me right now, a sample where I can watch (and measure, were I inclined to do so) the decay of material with a half-life of several billion years. By knowing the molar amount of sample I have, and observing the decay rate, I can accurately measure and compute the half-life, even though my observations are measured in minutes.

The rest of what you offer in the way of a critique on radioactive dating is no more credible than your amateurish half-life comment, so I will not further waste time trying to raise your scientific knowledge above the kindergarten level.

Well, that is worse than I even expected. It sounds more horrifying than I ever thought. Think of all of the different circumstances that could happen with a whole sample decaying, compared to a percentage of it that you watched. A whole sample could be tainted by the addition of some sort of gas surrounding or mixing with it over the years. There are all kinds of variables. So that the entire 100% of your sample doesn't age in the same amount of time as your 1%. Your 100% might age sooner or later than your one-millionth mini-sample. Whatever!! No, I do not like the way Science dates things at all. I've done enough science experiments to know exactly what you're saying here and I DON'T like it. It is a half-baked way to date things or should I say half-life.

Forgive me for what? For honestly understanding how nature works, and for putting aside fables that are at variance with nature? Is that the kind of God you worship, who wants slavish unthinking obeisance, instead of asking for a commitment to moral decency and defense of truth?

No Davis, forgive you for not believing in Him. You wouldn't think I would have to explain it. For being atheist, okay? Now do you get it?

Praise God And Jesus And The Holy Ghost!!

Michael

:think:

 

[MichaelCadry]

:mock: suckers who start conversations with Cadry.

Dear Stripe,

I think I hold my own pretty well. I slip up once or twice and that's all I am ever remembered for??

Michael

:angrymob:

:think:

 

[DavisBJ]

Well, that is worse than I even expected. It sounds more horrifying than I ever thought. Think of all of the different circumstances that could happen with a whole sample decaying, compared to a percentage of it that you watched. A whole sample could be tainted by the addition of some sort of gas surrounding or mixing with it over the years. There are all kinds of variables. So that the entire 100% of your sample doesn't age in the same amount of time as your 1%. Your 100% might age sooner or later than your one-millionth mini-sample. Whatever!! No, I do not like the way Science dates things at all. I've done enough science experiments to know exactly what you're saying here and I DON'T like it. It is a half-baked way to date things or should I say half-life.

You tacitly admit that your prior half-life objection was based on your own ignorance. And since your new objections to radioactive dating are as amateurish as the prior ones, I will forgo explaining why. When you put forth the effort to actually learn how the science works, then an intelligent discussion with you might be possible.

No Davis, forgive you for not believing in Him. You wouldn't think I would have to explain it. For being atheist, okay? Now do you get it?

Precisely. You, and many others, have made it clear that your God is far more interested in having me kiss up to him than in having me be an honest and decent person who will not compromise when it comes to truth. If I were to say I accept and believe in God like you do, by that very act I would be become a liar to myself, the world, and to that God. Why are you asking me to become a liar?

 

[MichaelCadry]

You tacitly admit that your prior half-life objection was based on your own ignorance. And since your new objections to radioactive dating are as amateurish as the prior ones, I will forgo explaining why. When you put forth the effort to actually learn how the science works, then an intelligent discussion with you might be possible.

What is the big deal? You date things by watching how one-millionth of a sample of crap ages. Well, that would depend on how many flies there were eating it as the years went by. Now your one-millionth sample that you are watching is not touched by any flies, because you've got it protected from all of the variables and occurrences that could happen after one million years. You also do not count for the crap losing it's content of water/moisture or gaining water. You do not account for oxygen/air, or other gases, aging it also. And where, some of the things you date, don't even have air for all you know. I'm just saying DavisBJ, that there are a lot of instances/variables and I would not trust that type of dating. I think it's lousy. Oh, I don't have the knowledge like you to know any better, eh?

Precisely. You, and many others, have made it clear that your God is far more interested in having me kiss up to him than in having me be an honest and decent person who will not compromise when it comes to truth. If I were to say I accept and believe in God like you do, by that very act I would be become a liar to myself, the world, and to that God. Why are you asking me to become a liar?

Not precisely. All that God wants of you is to listen to Him for your own good, just like a child is taught not to cross the street because it's unsafe and could result in death. He doesn't have rules for nothing. Parents have rules too. He's raising you whether you're an adult or not. So there are rules so that you don't perish. But it looks like you don't care if you perish or not, because you are playing games with God and you are in your own little world, like few on Earth, disbelieving in your Creator. Don't be a liar. You are just too far gone and out of your mind. There's simply no excuse for it all.

I'm Sorry That That Is How You Feel!!

Michael

:guitar:

:rapture: :cloud9:

 

[Kdall]

And there were hundreds of thousands of PhD scientists that finally realized that Noah's warnings were true when the Ark set out to sea.


everready

What?