ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
sure it can, if the perp thinks he (or she) can get away with it
Could Hugh Hefner & Donald Trump Be Homosexual?
- Thread starter Arthur Brain
- Start date
sure it can, if the perp thinks he (or she) can get away with it
glassjester
Well-known member
You're weilding a double-edged sword there, brother.
Domination can be obtained in nonsexual ways, therefore domination cannot be the primary motivation for rape.
glassjester
Well-known member
Or if two partners are having consentual sex, and one partner decides to stop, yet the other wishes to continue until he's "gratified."
In that case, the rapist's motive is obvious.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
this is the key for me
does a rapist generally continue raping after they have climaxed?
does a rapist generally stop raping before they climax?
i suspect the answer to both is no
glassjester
Well-known member
This would seem obvious.
For those saying that rape isn't motivated by sex:
Where are all the flacid rapists?
Actually if the urge is to dominate I can't think of a way to more clearly express it. What is a more sensitive area for a human being? What violation would be a better expression of dominance? I think you're inadvertently making an argument for it, not against it. The reason why rape isn't a reasonable extension of a simple sexual impulse is the risk/reward measured against alternatives, before we get to the emotional component.
Rape as a means of domination makes perfect sense. Is arguably the optimal expression and especially so where there is a hostility relating to gender or self-esteem and a number of other issues. That's why I noted a larger palate for consideration than the singular notion of dominance, however integral and reasonable it may be to consider that particular in examining motivation.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
glassjester
Well-known member
Sick, dude.
How about simply beating the crap out of someone?
And if you insist on dominance requiring a violation of one's most sensitive area - why wouldn't the attacker just attack and injur that particular area, instead of having sex with the victim?
If the attacker isn't after sexual gratification, then why would he be sexually aroused during the crime? Why would he choose victims he is sexually attracted to?
So 'violence' and 'dominance' can mean anything. How feminist of you.
Stop raping me with your existence! :chuckle:
Pedophiles aren't in it to dominate, they are in it for the sex- you're just lying to yourself so that you can lie to others.
There is no peer-reviewed book that concludes rape is about dominance, unless it's from the feminist lobby- the one's who invented the claim.
They are all largely women who act as if they have the patent on all things sexual and anything you have to say contrary to them is just 'misogyny'. You're a bunch of idiots for real in trying to impose that nonsense on other men
Feminists said it, you defend it. You don't care about reality, you want to perpetuate whatever they perpetuate.
If this is not the case, then surely you could give a tiny example.
But, you can't.
Stockholm syndrome bro :wave2:
It is. Can't think of much sicker.
Would you rather have the crap beaten out of you or be savagely raped?
Rather, I recognized that rape is hard to top as an act of dominance.
Supra. And, expanding beyond the singular consideration I haven't advanced singularly, because the gratification of sex is a part of it...part of the violence/domination, part of the humiliation on a psychological and emotional level. It could be a component of gender related anger and other issues as well.
I've never suggested sex isn't a component. I've suggested it isn't the driving force, that it is in service to other motivations.
glassjester
Well-known member
And do you have any reason to believe this?
The only actual evidence that's been brought up in this discussion is the several interviews with convicted rapists - almost all of which cited the desire for sexual gratification as their motive.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
on the one hand we got rapists talking about their motivations
on the other hand we got feminists talking about rapists' motivations
who ya gonna believe? :idunno:
In every case? and can you prove that claim? The problem with everyone (including yourself) taking sides on the issue of root cause is denying the fact that different things motivate different people to commit deviant acts whether they involve violence or not, and yes some rape is no-violent. Whether rape is occurring for dominance or sexual desire is really irrelevant to the act is it not?
No. In violent rape I'd be surprised to find it lacking, but there are other considerations, like statutory rape, or rape where the question is over volition, impairment, ect., and not overt and obvious violence or the demonstrated attempt to cause any particular harm.
I literally never reduced rape to one motivation and I've literally noted that its complex and that things other than sexual impulse and domination can and likely do play into it, especially the violent sort. So your problem with me appears to be reducible to your not being versed in my position or conflating it with someone else's.
I'm not sure what you're after with that. I'd suppose it has an impact on the nature of the act, the degree of violence and trauma of a physical sort at least. It would also influence sentencing to some extent.
To steal from you...Supra!
Ok, my bad, I have lumped you in with the rest around this board that seem to be hard over on the question of root cause. Like you I believe that motivations can be very complex and vary from crime to crime.
I was attempting to find agreement with you that the act in and of itself is deviant, that it causes the victim harm mentally, physically, or both, and in that respect it really doesn't matter what the motivator is. I was making the argument that the motivation behind the crime is irrelevant to the crime itself.
Sure. I set some of it out prior. Reason itself argues against it. Take my caviar illustration, by way of.
The last person I want to seek an honest opinion from is a convicted criminal. Also, that assumes the prisoner or offender is aware of what drives them. Recently a woman posted a monkey face comment aimed at the president's wife, then immediately declared herself not to be a racist.
lain: That really happened. By way of examining veracity: ex offenders minimize their number of victims. Speaking with 99 male sex offenders, court records showed 136 victims between them, but later during treatment, they eventually confessed to 959 victims between them (Slicner, 2007).
In that same study they found sex offenders tended to be skilled at rationalizing their actions.
A few additional peer reviewed studies on point:
When men are taught to be dominant and aggressive, this often leads to hyper-masculinity, male peer support for sexual aggression, development of rape myths, and adversarial sexual beliefs (Kilmartin, 2000; Rozee & Koss, 2001)
A number of peer related studies on the problem of college rape found the perpetrators shared certain characteristics, including: dominant and controlling personalities, hostile masculinity, and underlying anger and power issues with women.(Berkowitz, 1992; Check et al., 1985; Lisak & Roth, 1990; Mehrabian & Epstein, 1972; Rapaport and Burkhart, 1984).
"A study compared complex relationships among sexual attitudes and experiences, substance abuse patterns, and child abuse histories in college men. The comprehensive survey that was implemented measured risk factors found in the literature to be associated with male sexual aggression. In terms of the results, most of the hypothesized risk factors were predictive of sexual aggression, including negative gender-based attitudes, heavy alcohol use, and pornography consumption. Few men acknowledged using physical force to obtain sex, whereas more men acknowledged some form of sexual coercion. This included pressuring women and saying things they did not mean to obtain sex, using alcohol to obtain sex, and having sex with a woman even when she wanted to stop. A few men reported some likelihood of raping if they could be sure of not getting caught." (Carr and Van Deusen, 2004).
Don't force me to go all Ibid on you.
lain: I think human beings are complex and our problems and actions tend to be, whether we realize it or not.
I was giving the question consideration and giving you my best answer, in relatively short order. I agree with your process on the act itself and that nothing in motivation mitigates the harm of it. We don't really seem to be arguing about much.
Were we supposed to be arguing? I thought we were having a rational discussion on the subject, I know that is out of the norm for TOL but, it does happen from time to time.
Nah, I misread it the first time and edited it prior to seeing this.
Like I've said from the beginning, rape is complex, unlike nearly anything you have to say on any subject.
I'm not interested in your excuses/projections absent logic or authority, neither of which have a home in your efforts (see: Cruc's "I don't need to prove nuthin" nonsense).
If Hitler said we breath oxygen it wouldn't bother me. Your loose, absurd definitions bother me less given where you pull them from and what they fail to evidence...hey, I used evidence and you in a sentence. That's got to be worth novelty points.
I omit the last bit of trolling because...why not?
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The claim originated from feminism. This is a fact.
Here's another fact- there is not one single feminist complaint that does not in some way include key words like 'patriarchy' or 'dominance'.
You should be very interested in that plain observation rather than waving it away and saying things like:
Because
One doesn't need to prove anything that can be deduced with plain observation.
Rape is largely pervasive lust. Only in a very rare, specific circumstance is it for anything else. What the feminist lobby has done is mark every rapist as a virtual Jack the Ripper, and yet here you are telling me that I'm being shallow on the subject :AMR:
Those same women also insinuate that men need to be taught not to rape, so I guess we all have a bit of ol' Jack in us. Quite the reversal from ol' Jezebel, amiright